Belly Trouble With Dustin - Need Advice

[mychip1]

Sorry for the length...but want to give all the background.

 

Dustin has had either an IBD/Ulcer issue. We never did definitive diagnostics as the vet felt that treatment would be the same. He occassionally gets flare ups with bloody diarreah. Usually after first doze of Metrondiazol and Sucralfate he improves. Last flare up was about eight months ago.

 

He is on an I/D diet and never goes more than eight hours between meals as he then gets those horrible gurgles.

 

About a month ago, he started losing interest in I/D. I got brave and gave him something to entice him, and then he would eat - but grudginly...so I don't know if it was boredom, or a tummy that just wasn't feeling well.

 

Friday he had horrible bloody diarreah.

 

Put him on his meds.....other than continued lack of interest in food, he seemed to bounce back as usual....Poo got more normal by next morning.

 

Yesterday, I fed him around 5:00 a.m. as usual. When I got home from the barn at 8:30 for his meal before I head to work, he went outside and was desperately wanting grass. I got him in, convinced him to eat a little and then went to work. Got home at 4:00 and he had vomited. Took him out and he had more blood. Got him to eat a little at 5:00 (because of fear of him having an empty tummy). Had to go out for two hours, came home, he had vomited. I had cooked chicken and added it to his meal to entice him and that came up w/the ID. (Caveat....gave some to kitty cat and he threw up the chicken, too...so I threw it out, maybe thinking the chicken was bad and got Dustin's system off kilter).

 

He had a snack at nine oclock last night with some plain white turkey breast, and seemed to hold it down. He is still on his Flagyl and Sucralfate.

 

This morning, soft poo, but no blood. Ate at 5:00 and 9:00. Held all down and I waited home with him until 10:30. Came home at 2:30 and he had vomited. All that is coming up is the food.... He had no interest in pooping...though I haven't pushed the issue by taking him for a walk.

 

He has a regular physical scheduled for tomorrow....but called vet today. They can't fit him in today - and said that if I think he needs to be seen to take him to the evet.

 

Questions are as follows:

 

Anyone with an IBD or Ulcer dog ever experience vomiting with it? He never has had this as part of the issue.

Given that he is not vomiting up any bile, just food, and not constantly, can he wait to see his vet tomorrow? He is drinking.

 

My concern w/evet is they don't know his history - and I don't want to stress him any more than I have to with all sorts of test.

 

He does not have tummy gurgles...which is unusual.

 

If he had bloat....would he have other symptoms at this point? It just seems like it would be too coincidental for him to have had a flare up AND get bloat.

 

Other question, one time my Jack ate a hair scrunchy. He started vomiting food up....and had diarreah.....not normal symtom of a blockage.. The only way we knew was that I saw him vomit it up and eat it back down (sorry for that image)....so we induced and all was fine. Dustin is not normally into anything, but who knows??

 

At what point would you go to an evet?

 

Vet's office recommends fasting him for 12 hours and see what happens.

[MerlinsMum]

Oh, Robin, I'm so sorry to read that Dustin vomited again today How worrying for you. At this point, since he is not holding anything down, I would take the vet's advice and fast him. His system is clearly rejecting food at this time. If he doesn't have a gurgly tummy, then that's one less thing for you to worry about (I know how scary it is to fast a dog with IBD and worry about that loud gurgling and the discomfort and anxiety that accompanies it)

 

Did the vet recommend continuing with Sucralfate and Metronidazole even without food being administered?

 

I am sorry your vet couldn't see you today. I have Dustin tucked in my thoughts, please keep us posted

Edited July 25, 2012 by MerlinsMum

[Time4ANap]

Pacing, panting, stretching an unusual amount? See link for other symptoms

 

Symptoms of bloat.

[mychip1]

No panting or restlessness. He is a bit stoic, but I think he would show some signs.... The only thing I've noticed is that he is walking very slowly on his walks, but I'm thinking that might be from just feeling lousy.

 

Kerry....his stomach's not gurgling, but mine certainly is right now...

[Guest LindsaySF]

Does he get Pepcid or another stomach protectant daily? Or just during flare-ups?

 

Has he been dewormed recently?

[Charlies_Dad]

No advice Robin, just good thoughts for the handsome Dustin.

[mychip1]

Usually just during flare up....

 

Interesting question on worms...after last flare we did a round of panacur though stools were neg. He didn't have another flare until now....a few gurgles, but nothing that led to bloody d. Could worms cause vomiting, too?

 

Thanks, Kyle!

Edited July 25, 2012 by mychip1

[Guest LindsaySF]

If his stomach gets gurgly between meals, he might have a lot of acid build up. I'd give Pepcid twice a day, see if that helps any. Snacks between meals can help too.

 

The vomiting sounds more like acid build up/ulcer stuff, but parasites are always possible, especially when things coming out the other end don't look so great. I would Panacur him again, just to be safe.

 

It's a little worrisome that he can't keep food down (I always worry about blockages myself), but as long as he's pooping that's a good sign. Maybe fasting him would help. I'd definitely give Pepcid if you fast him, no food at all and his tummy might have too much acid.

 

If the vet suspected an ulcer, did they do antibiotics to target it? Or just the Flagyl?

 

ETA: If Helicobacter is suspected, they've had some success combining Flagyl, Amoxicillin, and Pepcid. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23310.htm

Edited July 25, 2012 by LindsaySF

[mychip1]

Just the Flagyl......

 

I am tempted to do the pepcid, too, to counteract the fasting..... He had his Sucralfate around 4:30 this morning....at least he held that down...and I think the flagyl would have had enough time to absorb, too.

 

I will talk to her tomorrow about worms.....This long term decrease in appetite has me concerned....

 

He is resting comfortably and has had two regular "drinks" of water over the past two hours....so I am holding off on evet for now. He is laying in a favorite spot looking out the window.

Edited July 25, 2012 by mychip1

[Burpdog]

How much sulcrafate is he getting? Flagyl will upset the stomach. You might ask the vet about stopping it for at least a day.

 

Panacur will calm the gut which could be why he's been ok.

 

I would give him zantac or pepcid.

 

He needs to be scoped. Do you have a specialist you go to? You need to know what you are dealing with. At this point you are guessing.

 

You can give him more sulcrafate now.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Burpdog

[mychip1]

He is getting 1 gram once a day...so 1000mg of the sucralfate. I will run and get Pepcid....do you give a normal "human" dose? He is relatively lean...not a lot of body mass...about 68-70 lbs.

 

My vet is a former greyhound track vet...so she is grey savy and familiar with the issues. I have avoided the scope as I fear any unnecessary sedation...and if we were able to control without it, I went that route.

 

The biggest difference this time is the vomiting - but given the decrease interest in food over the past month, I really am thinking ulcer. Also, the first batch of blood on Friday was very dark....i.e. stomach type.

[Time4ANap]

Usually just during flare up....

 

Interesting question on worms...after last flare we did a round of panacur though stools were neg. He didn't have another flare until now....a few gurgles, but nothing that led to bloody d. Could worms cause vomiting, too?

 

Thanks, Kyle!

 

Definitely check for worms. Rule out the simple stuff first.

 

Rocket has had several bouts with a stomach issue this year that basically had no rhyme or reason. All fecals and blood tests were negative. The only thing that actually worked was a 5 day dose of Panacur. A 3 day dose originally had little effect. We have still never identified a worm or parasite.

 

He did vomit blood which is what prompted me to escalate him to the Vet Clinic at the University of IL Vet Med Program where they prescribed some RX food instead of the bland diet for a bit, and the 5 days of Panacur. It worked well, but i saw the symptoms return this past weekend. i am doing another 5 days of Panacur, and last night after dose # 4 of Panacur, I had a completely different dog who obviously was feeling much better.

 

Worms / parasites are out of control this year in many areas.

 

Feel better soon Dustin!

[Guest LindsaySF]

When you have a lot of vomiting it usually points to stomach issues (like an ulcer) versus just IBD. Though they suspect that Helicobacter is involved, or possibly causing in some cases, IBD. Lack of appetite is an ulcer symptom too.

 

I buy generic Pepcid (famotidine). It comes in both 10 mg and 20 mg tablets, depending on his weight. Suggested dosage is 0.5 mg/kg. I like to give it twice a day.

 

The only way to be sure of the diagnosis is to scope him, and possibly biopsy some tissue. Many vets will treat for a suspected ulcer though without scoping. Another link with some possible treatments: http://www.marvistav..._infection.html

[Guest SoulsMom]

Robin, when Soul was so bad he would sometimes vomit too (when he ate grass, grass eating was always a sign he was about to flare) My suggestions is to just back off, with the exception of the Flagyl. Nothing but I/D and Flagyl. I'd even fast him if possible. Give his tummy a day to rest. These IBD dogs are so tricky. Soul had such a good stretch for years that I was able to introduce small treats outside the I/D. But then Bailey came along, and although he knew about his issues, he wasn't as careful as I was about treats outside the I/D. Sure enough after a month or two, Soul had the bloody big D. We had a little bout this summer too, I always know he's not feeling well when he won't eat, poor monkey

 

ETA: with Soul's blowout that landed him in ICU he also vomited dark, digested blood. I learned that when he's pooping dark blood it's older and already digested. When the blood in the poop is brighter it's from an active bleed

Edited July 25, 2012 by SoulsMom

[phall]

With my boy, Star, who has colitis, his flare-ups sound much the same as Dustins. Star is on daily metronidizol. When he shows signs of a flare-up, I add the sulcrafate and if his stomach begins to act up as well, I add reglan. It usually takes a few days to quiet down.

 

I agree with others, I'd fast him for a day to let his system settle down. Good luck. I hope he's feeling better soon.

 

Pat

[Batmom]

If he can't hold food down, I'd want an x-ray first and some bloodwork (white count) to go with that. If he seems comfortable then that can wait until tomorrow but I would want it then. You need to rule out a blockage.

 

Sending best thoughts for your pupper.

[mychip1]

Thanks, All.

 

Batmom.....the food coming back whole does concern me about blockage.... But, given that this started with bloody diarreah...and a desire to eat grass, I'm hoping that is not the case. I will chat with her about that tomorrow, though! You mention white count....infection? Is that a response to blockage. I did check his temp.....under 100 right now.

 

Amber, thanks.....I wasn't sure if Soul had been vomiting or not. Interestingly, the first big d was very dark...i.e. digested tummy blood. Yesterday's was actually a little lighter....He really confuses me!!!!

 

I gave him 10 mg of pepcid...because I wasn't sure of doze... but .5 per KG means I should probably give a bit more....he is about 68 pounds.

 

Again...thanks to all.

[Guest SoulsMom]

Hmmm, if the first D was dark that means it has been happening (bleeding of the GI tract) then got better. The brighter blood on the latest means a more recent flare. I'd try to thing back to what he digested between those two times . . . .

 

Soul had his blowout that landed him in ICU then a few months later another flare, even though he'd been eating NOTHING but the I/D. I started him on Flagyl and was freaking out because there was nothing to cause it. With that one I decided 'well, if I fast him he can't continue to bleed from stuff irritating his stomach' (this was on a holiday, when everything was closed). Sure enough, the fasting settled his down his unruly tummy . . . .

[mychip1]

Amber....I am very suspect of the chicken that I gave him..... He was mending until that point.....Then when the cat threw it up, I started to really wonder if something was wrong with it. JJ only had a tiny piece...he was fine.

 

I'm wondering if that caused the bloody flare up and obviously he would vomit up the bad stuff....I would imagine once his tummy is in that state, that he might continue vomiting even today.

[tbhounds]

Personally, I would increase the carafate frequency-can be given 4 times a day -it was always recommended to me to give it one hour prior to food and other medications--also if a gi ulcer is suspected then Omeprazole would be a better choice over Pepcid. Of course get your vets blessing before changing meds.

 

[mychip1]

Thanks, tbhounds. I was thinking of giving him another tab of that tonight instead of waiting until morning.

[Batmom]

Batmom.....the food coming back whole does concern me about blockage.... But, given that this started with bloody diarreah...and a desire to eat grass, I'm hoping that is not the case. I will chat with her about that tomorrow, though! You mention white count....infection? Is that a response to blockage. I did check his temp.....under 100 right now.

 

Partial blockage can and often does include diarrhea. White count -- response to infection, which could be due to blockage, parasites, etc.

[mychip1]

Batmom.....the food coming back whole does concern me about blockage.... But, given that this started with bloody diarreah...and a desire to eat grass, I'm hoping that is not the case. I will chat with her about that tomorrow, though! You mention white count....infection? Is that a response to blockage. I did check his temp.....under 100 right now.

 

Partial blockage can and often does include diarrhea. White count -- response to infection, which could be due to blockage, parasites, etc.

 

That is what the hair scrunchy did to Jack...vomiting and diarreah....

[BatterseaBrindl]

Sorry Dustin is still not feeling well.

 

Is he keeping the water down?

 

I have zero expreience with tummy issues in dogs, but my gastric ulcer-prone horse did very, very well on Omeprazole.

[mychip1]

Sorry Dustin is still not feeling well.

 

Is he keeping the water down?

 

I have zero expreience with tummy issues in dogs, but my gastric ulcer-prone horse did very, very well on Omeprazole.

 

Yes...thankfully, water is staying down.