Osteo Thread V

[Charlies_Dad]

Our thoughts are with you today MachosMom. Is it heartbreaking to say goodbye to these special hounds and life just isn't the same when they are gone. I know both my boys met Macho over the bridge and knowing Charlie, they are running together.

[teri_d]

my heart hurts for you -- tonight a toast to havok and macho and their families.

[RaineysMom]

Its so empty here. Yes I have another dog and a cat, but its just so empty. Its not right. He gave me so many smiles these last three days that I will always cherish, but this isnt right at all.

 

The vet who came was lovely and just perfect for this crappy situation. So i am thankful for that.

 

I miss him so much and in so many ways. There is no real preparing for the void left behind.

 

thinking about you and your partner today

[Guest cashie]

I haven't been on here for a few days, just wanted to check in to see how everyone is doing and am now in tears. I'm so, so sorry about Macho and Havoc. It just isn't fair.

[Guest greytmom_chi]

I am not sure if this place is appropriate to post my question as this is my very first time to write something on greytalk. As a start, honestly, I am a bit nervous to tell everything with real name now here... so please accept my girls' name is anonymous for now. My little girl KB was diagnosed with osteo in beginning of March, few days after that we visited OSU and her amputation (right forelimb) was performed. KB got 4-times carboplatin at local vet where was our regular vet, as they were authorized to do. two weeks later of the last carbo treatment (middle of June), we headed over OSU again to discuss metronomic chemo. KB started getting metronomic (Palladia and Cytoxan) two weeks later on. However, yesterday we visited OSU for checkup and unfortunately and very sadly, we had an evidence that KB's evil tumor cells were unbelievably aggressive than we thought... She now has progressive pulmonary metastasis which were shown on her chest x-rays... Very so sad to say but KB is one of few who has such situation much earlier than we expected.

 

Anyway, new lower doze chemo, Leukeran with Rimadyl, were given to KB for the treatment because the x-rays did show clearly Palladia/Cytoxan didn't work. (Rimadyl because as many of you know, it is also effective for cancer cell, as well as, KB has been having occasional lameness on her right hind leg... suspecting from old injury at race track. We don't get any evidence of another osteo in the leg or anywhere as we took 5-6 times x-rays in three months).

 

I hope some of you who encounter the same / similar situation are able to understand what I really feel right now... KB is only 7 years old. It's echoing in my head so much, "It's just not fair"... It's just really heartbreaking.

 

My question is, now my most focus is how I am able to make the pulmonary nodules to grow as slow as possible. I know OSU chose the most appropriate prescription, Leukeran, to my girl for now... but I just want to try anything which would be beneficial in any ways. I have been told by few people (greyhound people) some herbal products (like Pet Wellbeing - I actually ordered one) would be beneficial, but I'd like to know anything I can get advice/ to hear actual experiences and I thought this greytalk forum would be the best place to ask. I have checked tripawds.com threads as well but I know greyhounds are special in many different ways.

 

I would sincerely appreciate your opinion, thoughts, anything. Thank you all in advance.

[MachosMom]

Greymom_chi - My heart goes out to you. You're in good company here. This is a horrible thing to go through, and all of us know exactly what you're feeling. There aren't many times that someone can say that and it be true.

 

I don't have any advice for your question. I do however send love and support. If you need to vent, cry, anything, I'm here. I can't make the cancer go away, although I wish I could. I'd still have my Macho.

[greysmom]

There are quite a few people here who have used holistic medicine with their osteo dogs. Hopefully, they will chime in here soon. Go to the first post in this thread for many links and information that will be useful.

 

Kyle (Charlie's Dad) can you post a link to your wife blog entries about what you did for Charlie?

[Guest greytmom_chi]

Hello MachosMom and greysmom - thank you very much for your response. MachosMom - I sincerely appreciated your words. For greysmom- since I am quite a new to here and there are TONS of links and threads I honestly don't know where I should go... if you don't mind, can you specify more how I can find these links and information you mention? Meanwhile, I'd like to wait for Kyle's wife blog information - I sincerely appreciate it. I am desperately needing any of useful or effective ways to save my little girl, and I know really have to educate myself much more. Since March, I have been so much relying on just vets and chemos... I really didn't think if THIS would happen to my girl too soon. Thank you all for your advice...

[NeylasMom]

Greytmom_chi, I'm very sorry for what you're going through. 7 is very young to lose a dog to osteo although it's never easy. I would recommend adding artemisinin on top of the protocol from OSU if you want to try something holistic. Also, a healthy dose of fish oil may be helpful not only for its anti-cancer properties, but for the old racing injury. There are so many holistic options, but I would start there if it were me.

[Charlies_Dad]

Hi KB's mom, I am truly sorry you have received the news you have. It is very unfair and this disease is just that so very very unfair. I believe my wife's blog is locked-down currently (private not public) as she discontinued it due to illness. I can ask her when she is back whether we can make it available as we did do a lot of holistic protocols for our Charlie. I do believe I posted the supplements, herbs, etc. that we were using in the previous Osteo Thread, there are five of them unfortunately. Not sure how easy it is to search within a search of a thread but I do know I posted it in Osteo Thread III or IV. I can try looking in the meantime and when DW comes home, I'll ask about her blog.

 

Again I am so very sorry. I have heard some pups have battled mets for a period, the longest being 1 year which unfortunately I believe is the exception. Please give KB a hug from me.

[teri_d]

hello kb's mom - i am so sorry your first post had to be this one - but we all here understand and our hearts break for you. i can't help with any of the technical questions, but if you want to rant, rave, cry -- i understand - i've lost 2 "fur-kids" to osteo....you'll find comfort and answers here for you and for kb - hugs teri

[Guest greytmom_chi]

Hi all who kindly responded my question: Thank you very much.

 

Neylasmom - yes, actually my girl has been on Artemisinin since the 1st of July. Although she no longer is eligible to take Palladia/Cytoxan option, Artemisinin is still on. I give her 3 fish oils with reasonable amount of joint supplement per day. OSU told me since my girl is taking Artemisinin, they wouldn't think I would need (they wouldn't suggest) to add any of some type of "holistic" things into her chemo. Well, but now situation has been changed - I just want to try ANYTHING I can do as long as it's safe for KB.

 

Charlies_Dad- thank you for your advice. I will look for your threads. I know this fact which is happening to my girl would be very difficult situation, but I just don't want to loose my hope. Even a day longer if she could be happy that's what all I want. It's just a beginning- as we found out this fact two days ago (sorry it was not yesterday), I really want to try anything, everything, I can... that is all. I know you all truly are able to understand what I am feeling now. I don't believe any miracles, but I at least can be hopeful and never underestimating the power of love and power of life itself...

[MP_the4pack]

greytmom_chi I just wanted to say I'm so sorry to hear the horrible news. KB is way too young. Unfortunately many people here have lost young ones. (I lost a 5 yr old to liver disease).

I've also lost 3 to hemangiosaroma and one to OS. I drove from NJ to OSU for her amp surgery. I had her for another 6 months before OS struck another leg.

 

My heart and prayers go out to you.

[RaineysMom]

hi KB's mom, so very sorry you are going through this. It sucks, I know :(

 

Nube was diagnosed on 7/10/12 and has had 3 radiation treatments and then started on Cytoxan (oral chemo) 2 weeks ago. He got his re-check today and his WBC is ok so she is continuing the Cytoxan and added Palladia as well.

 

as far as holistic -- Nube gets (and was getting prior) a 1/2 tsp of MSM, glucosumate and chondrotin. He also gets 3 1200 mg fish oil pills, and 2 Flax oil pills as well (not sure the dose). I switched him from Canidae kibble to a homemade diet that is high in protein and fat and very low in carbohydrates, since cancer feeds on carbs. I don't know if that would be an option for you. It takes some time to make it but I'm hoping it helps.

 

sending many prayers to you and your girl.

[Guest greytmom_chi]

Hi RaineysMom- thank you for your post. I think what you give your Nube is very similar what my KB gets: she gets MSM/glucosumate and chndrotin which I believe contained into the joint supplement (please tell me if I am wrong) that supplement I got from Dr. Foster and Smith... and she is taking 3 of the fish oil (how many then? it's just typical regular fish oil from Costco). I have never given my girl Flax oil - I may be starting to do so, which won't hurt I believe. Some people are talking about non-carb kibbles (Canidae?) I am more than happy to make homemade meal, but just don't know which one should be the most appopriate. How you guys are making, I mean, what you use to "cook" the meal? I give her 1/2 of Acana/Orijen kibbles with 1/6 can of Tripett (for her stool as well) plus The Honest Kitchen Embark 1/2-3/4cup, total about 1 1/2 cup per meal (x twice a day).

 

There are quite a bit threads here and I am now reading but it's very challenging to follow them as much as I can - but very informational, thank you. I've found many of posting talking about Artemisinin. I really have to educate myself more and more.

[Charlies_Dad]

KB's mom, I was able to retrieve this that we used to give Charlie.

 

 

- salmon oil 4000mg/day

- Ester-C 500mg/day

- L-Glutamine 500 mg/day

- L-Arginine 1000mg/day

- B-100mg/day

- Selenium 200mg/day

- CoQ10 100mg/day

- Yerba Mate & Pau d'Arco tea

- Maitake mushroom (dried whole mushroom)

 

He also receives a number of herbs as well daily. All the above is put in his food except for Palladia and Artemisinin. These are given separately, the former in the morning and the latter at night in a blend of cottage cheese and flax oil. These are both cycled, he does not get them every day.

 

For diet, we make our own food for our pups and always have since we adopted him 3+ years ago. We did alter it when he was diagnosed to fresh vegetables blended (e.g. broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, turnip, carrot, dill, parsley, oregano, tyme) with lentils and then a protein, e.g. salmon, mackeral, raw turkey or boiled eggs.

 

Even with all this and unlimited funds to fix him I could not. He left us after 21mths post dx which is a great run but not good enough. Missing him each and every day. I hope you find this of some value.

[Guest greytmom_chi]

Charlies_Dad- thank you so very much for your post again. I am in tears - appreciation and regret which I think why I didn't join this great forum sooner. I will try having them you listed. I know each dog reacts just so differently, but I'd like to give it try. 21months... what a wonderful survival time. I know we NEVER have enough "time" can be described. I just think of my little girl and I am just so, so sad. I've been so emotional and it's so difficult to handle. She is my very first dog in my life, and only a family member here in the US (just a bit sharing about myself: I am from different country originally, living here by myself by my choice- my education and job). As I have never experienced such difficult time before, I have no idea how fearful it will be. Very scary. But I have to be cheerful and happy being in front of my little girl. She feels everything what I feel. I appreciate I am here a part of you guys forum.

 

I ordered some herb products advised by one of my friends. Without thinking if these will work for my girl or not, I'll be just starting to give it to my girl, too. Why not. Do you feed raw salmon (excluding the bones, right?)? I am giving her boiled chicken right now. I'll be adding few eggs.

 

thank you for listening.

[greysmom]

You might also see if you have a holistic vet in your area.

[Guest greytmom_chi]

Charlies_Dad- I bought these supplements for my girl. I started adding them into her meal. Her new chemo, Leukeran, is arriving here tomorrow from a compound phamacy where OSU uses.

 

greysmom- right, I might want to get the professional's opinions. We reside west suburb Chicago and wondering if someone knows someone... let me ask people here, if someone know someone holistic vet who has experiences especially with greyhounds... I know there are many holistic vets here and there, but we always want to have someone who KNOWS greyhounds. I just don't know where to start, so I'd like to ask you guys here first.

 

Charlies_Dad's advice is definitely helpful and appreciative as you guys actually used the method and it's "proven" by you.

[RaineysMom]

Charlies_Dad- I bought these supplements for my girl. I started adding them into her meal. Her new chemo, Leukeran, is arriving here tomorrow from a compound phamacy where OSU uses.

 

greysmom- right, I might want to get the professional's opinions. We reside west suburb Chicago and wondering if someone knows someone... let me ask people here, if someone know someone holistic vet who has experiences especially with greyhounds... I know there are many holistic vets here and there, but we always want to have someone who KNOWS greyhounds. I just don't know where to start, so I'd like to ask you guys here first.

 

Charlies_Dad's advice is definitely helpful and appreciative as you guys actually used the method and it's "proven" by you.

 

where are you in the west suburbs? we're right in Bloomingdale.

[joejoesmom]

KB's mom: I am so sorry you have received such horrible news. I don't have any advice regarding holistic/herbal treatments, but I wanted to let you know that I have been there. It is so, so hard.

 

I live in Columbus, so my Joe was treated at OSU. He had just turned 7. We were lucky --he got 20 1/2 months after amputation. He developed another primary bone tumor. I had to let him go because of the pain on April 14 of this year.

 

I wanted to mention, for what its worth, that Dr. Couto at OSU does not believe that a "cancer" diet is beneficial for osteo. By cancer diet, I mean a low carb, high protein diet. He does say that a few studies have shown it to be beneficial for some cancers, but studies with bone cancer have so far not shown a benefit. All that being said, as long as KB's kidneys aren't compromised, a low carb, high protein diet won't hurt anything. You would likely want to transition to this diet over a week or so to help prevent any gastrointestinal upset (e.g. diarrhea).

 

I also wanted to let you know about a wonderful group, Circle of Grey. They are a group specifically for people with greyhounds who have cancer. They are just so supportive and will understand what you are going through. You will need to sign up and be approved by the moderator. Here is the link:

 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CircleofGrey/

 

Jane

[krissn333]

VCA Berwyn is an amazing place full of great doctors...not sure if that's close for you but if it is, they may have someone. Personally I only know the orthopedist there, Dr. Turner...he is an AMAZING orthopedic surgeon. I can only imagine that they have other docs in different disciplines that are every bit as awesome.

 

For all of y'all, some pics of Pinky from tonight in her favorite place-her bed in the closet

 

 

[TwiggysMom]

Hi greytmom_chi I don't have much more to add to my email earlier, but I'll mention Integrative Pet Care in Chicago; they also have a Hanover Park location which might be more convenient to you.

 

I think you know I took Twiggy there for a number of acupuncture/chiropractic and underwater treadmill sessions. They have several licensed veterinarians who practice more holistic procedures (ie acu/chiro). I'm not sure if this will work as a link: http://www.integrati...services.html

 

They won't give you any advice or information without a fairly pricey evaluation first. There is no treatment or advice offered during the evaluation. Then they email you an extended treatment plan (usually 4-6 weeks) which they try to get you to pay up front (and is not refundable). I don't really like this part of their practice; however, everyone there seems to really love the dogs, and they have a fairly broad range of services, including cancer support.

 

Give some more kisses to KB from me!

 

Edited: YAY for more Pinky pics! I think she needs to get some smooches from me, too!

Edited August 24, 2012 by TwiggysMom

[Guest greytmom_chi]

Hi RaineysMom, it's Wheaton. We are not too far away at all!

[Charlies_Dad]

KB's mom, I just wanted to note Charlie was a 74lb boy even with one leg missing so you may want to reduce some of the supplements a bit for your girl as I am assuming she is smaller. I wish you and KB as much time as possible and know we all here know what you are going through and are so sorry.

 

Kristin, Pinky looks great! Love that girl.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Charlies_Dad