Experience With Heart Murmurs?

[vjgrey]

I took Lucy in today for her vaccinations and annual checkup, and her vet said she heard what sounded like a heart murmur. Lucy is super vet phobic, and she was trembling at the time, so she said that COULD cause her to hear something that isn't there. We're going to recheck her in a few weeks when she's (hopefully!) calmer and hope that's all it was.

 

If she does have a murmur, what can I expect? Her vet said they would refer us to a specialist.

 

Edited to add - Lucy is a racing school dropout and will be five years old in July. We've had her since she was a year and a half old, and a heart murmur has never been mentioned.

Edited April 12, 2012 by vjgrey

[Hubcitypam]

what grade is the murmer?

[45MPHK9]

in 2010, we heard dr. couto speak at Greyhounds Rock event. he said that nearly every greyhound has a heart murmur. this has to do with the the large volume of blood greyhounds pump through a relatively small valve in their hearts. as the high volume of blood rushes through the small heart valve it makes a whooshing sound that vets hear as a heart murmur. he said that whether or not a vet heard this murmur depended on where exactly they placed the stethoscope. it also depended on the size of the stethoscope the vet used.

 

dr. couto said that OSU frequently receives requests for consults for greyhounds having suspected heart disease because vets unfamiliar with greyhound medical idiosyncrasies misdiagnose these murmurs. this is a common reason for referral to OSU's heath and wellness program.

[vjgrey]

She didn't say, and I didn't know enough (anything) about the condition to ask. I assume she'll tell me more if/when she confirms it on our follow-up visit.

 

in 2010, we heard dr. couto speak at Greyhounds Rock event. he said that nearly every greyhound has a heart murmur. this has to do with the the large volume of blood greyhounds pump through a relatively small valve in their hearts. as the high volume of blood rushes through the small heart valve it makes a whooshing sound that vets hear as a heart murmur. he said that whether or not a vet heard this murmur depended on where exactly they placed the stethoscope. it also depended on the size of the stethoscope the vet used.

 

dr. couto said that OSU frequently receives requests for consults for greyhounds having suspected heart disease because vets unfamiliar with greyhound medical idiosyncrasies misdiagnose these murmurs. this is a common reason for referral to OSU's heath and wellness program.

 

Wow! That's interesting. Do you know whether he's published anything on this? It sounds like I may need to see if my vet can get in touch with OSU for a consult.

[45MPHK9]

Here's a link to published info from OSU. Link

[Sheshe]

When ever I have to go to a non grey savy vet I have to explain this. All but one of my greys have it. My vet who comes to our home even lets me hear it when she comes over. It is very intersting. I had to take my foster to a vet for something and this was a new vet, I had to explain to him what he was hearing, along with a few other things.

[OwnedBySummer]

I heard the same type of information from Dr. Couto, too! I also remember him saying that the vet should use a pediatric stethoscope to listen with, instead of the normal sized one. And there's a certain place to listen to a greyhound heart -- I really wish I remember where that is, something is prompting me to think "high on the left" but that would depend upon which side of the hound you are listening from.

 

ETA: Just went to OSU's website and extracted this:

 

Greyhounds are known to have "normal" athletic or physiologic flow murmurs. These murmurs are mild in nature (grade 1 or 2 out of 6) and are heard best over the left base of the heart (high in the armpit). Thoracic radiographs (X-rays) and/or echocardiography (ultrasound) will help determine the actual status of the heart.

 

There is also a techy .pdf article. Here's the link to the page with the above information (which is point #2 in their FAQs). The link to the .pdf is within point #2. OSU FAQs

Edited April 12, 2012 by OwnedBySummer

[vjgrey]

Here's a link to published info from OSU. Link

 

Thank you! I'll take this and OSU's contact info to our next appointment.

[Guest Plygreygirl]

I would not worry too much! I have a hound that also has a heart murmur! And has had it since I got her 4 + years ago. It does not really effect her all the much. She is a happy healthy active hound. She loves to do her zoomies and has no real problems . I will say that she will rest after but then they all do execpt really high energy nut cases. I was also refered to a specilitist and did not take her.

 

She has no problems on a day to day bases. No side effects so I see no reason to put her thru it. If I thought they could "fix" her maybe! But whats to fix! I will keep doing what we are doing which is keeping her weight down and excersiing her. She is 7 1/2 and still in excellent shape still lots of muscel defention and is one very out going happy girl.

 

 

So I would think about it before taking her to another Vet/specialist!! Ask you vet why she needs to see the specialits? What will they do for her? My vet could not give me enought reasons to take her. And the fact that she doing just fine! Why?

[JJNg]

Just wanted to mention that while a mild heart murmur may be normal in greyhounds, that doesn't mean that all heart murmurs in greys are just a normal finding that can be ignored. The only way to tell for sure whether a heart murmur is significant is to do an echocardiogram (heart ultrasound), which is usually done through that referral to a specialist (either cardiology or internal medicine, depending on what's available in your area).

 

Heart murmurs only mean turbulent blood flow causing an abnormal sound. As already mentioned, these can be physiologic and benign. But murmurs can also be caused by a number of heart conditions, such as leaky valves (ie. mitral valve regurgitation), weakening of the heart muscle (dilated cardiomyopathy), holes between the 2 sides of the heart (septal defects), abnormal narrowing of blood vessels leaving the heart (pulmonic or subaortic stenosis), etc.

 

A thorough assessment by a specialist, including an echo and possibly other tests, is needed to find out if a particular dog's heart murmur indicates a problem. If heart disease is diagnosed, medication and other treatment options can be pursued to try to fix the problem, or at least slow down the progression. The fact that a dog is acting fine and not currently showing any signs doesn't mean there isn't an underlying condition that could be addressed. By the time a dog shows signs of heart disease, it's often starting to go into congestive heart failure.

[vjgrey]

Just wanted to mention that while a mild heart murmur may be normal in greyhounds, that doesn't mean that all heart murmurs in greys are just a normal finding that can be ignored. The only way to tell for sure whether a heart murmur is significant is to do an echocardiogram (heart ultrasound), which is usually done through that referral to a specialist (either cardiology or internal medicine, depending on what's available in your area).

 

Heart murmurs only mean turbulent blood flow causing an abnormal sound. As already mentioned, these can be physiologic and benign. But murmurs can also be caused by a number of heart conditions, such as leaky valves (ie. mitral valve regurgitation), weakening of the heart muscle (dilated cardiomyopathy), holes between the 2 sides of the heart (septal defects), abnormal narrowing of blood vessels leaving the heart (pulmonic or subaortic stenosis), etc.

 

A thorough assessment by a specialist, including an echo and possibly other tests, is needed to find out if a particular dog's heart murmur indicates a problem. If heart disease is diagnosed, medication and other treatment options can be pursued to try to fix the problem, or at least slow down the progression. The fact that a dog is acting fine and not currently showing any signs doesn't mean there isn't an underlying condition that could be addressed. By the time a dog shows signs of heart disease, it's often starting to go into congestive heart failure.

 

I definitely don't plan to ignore it. I take my hounds' health VERY seriously, and, if anything, tend to err on the side of overly cautious/worried mama. We'll go in for the recheck and if after checking it again and considering Dr. Couto's info, our vet still thinks we need to see a cardiologist, that's what we'll do. We're in the DC metro, so we have access to lots of great specialists.

[dante2zoe]

Dante has a heart murmur. It was a grade 1-2 for years. Last year, it went up to a 3+ and, at the recommendation of our vet, we went to CVCA to see a cardiologist. He performed an echo and EKG. He saw nothing that needed to be treated with medication and we are to return in another year. It was very interesting, informative and reassuring. The main reason our vet referred us was that it had changed. BTW, Dante is 11.

[MaryJane]

My angel Jake had a heart murmur and it was confirmed with an echo. It never seemed to affect him and when he passed it was from osteosarcoma, not from any problem with his heart. I was careful to make sure that he got antibiotics before he had his teeth cleaned at age 11.

[inugrey]

• Zoe visited the much loved and very greyhound savvy Dr. Kellogg for her wellness visit in 2010. She was sent to the Hope Center for an echo cardiogram. The specialists said it was just an athletic heart. I would ask for a referral to the Hope Center and not bother with a generalist. I love my generalists but I want them to send me to a specialist when it comes to this sort of thing. For the record Zoe was retired at 19 months old, so another big fat flunky...though as I get to know her I think she just likes being in the back to see the action.

Let us know what happens.

 

 

 

 

And for the records I have no idea how I put the bullet in the post

 

 

 

[brandimom]

My only experience with a heart murmur was with my afghan sighthound. He may have been 7 when diagnosed. The heart specialist did an ultrasound, no medication was needed but did advise us not to put him under for any surgery unless it was really necessary. We never did another dental on him just the non-sedation cleaning each year. The specialist should give you a full written report with the results of the ultrasound.

[tbhounds]

in 2010, we heard dr. couto speak at Greyhounds Rock event. he said that nearly every greyhound has a heart murmur. this has to do with the the large volume of blood greyhounds pump through a relatively small valve in their hearts. as the high volume of blood rushes through the small heart valve it makes a whooshing sound that vets hear as a heart murmur. he said that whether or not a vet heard this murmur depended on where exactly they placed the stethoscope. it also depended on the size of the stethoscope the vet used.

 

dr. couto said that OSU frequently receives requests for consults for greyhounds having suspected heart disease because vets unfamiliar with greyhound medical idiosyncrasies misdiagnose these murmurs. this is a common reason for referral to OSU's heath and wellness program.

Oohh, Tricia- you go girl!!!

[MP_the4pack]

While murmurs can be common with greys, they still can have heart disease. A cardiologist can rule that out. Pearl had heart disease diagnosed at age 5 and lived til 12, succumbing to cancer.

[vjgrey]

To update this, Lucy had a follow up visit, and her vet still hears a murmur. She said she'd place it at around Grade 3. We did discuss greyhound "quirks" and she said that while that could be it, she doesn't feel comfortable dismissing it without a second opinion from a cardiologist.

 

So she's referred us to a cardiac specialist at The Hope Center. While I have no doubt they'll be great, that's where we lost Gabe, so walking back in there will be extremely hard. Unfortunately, Cardio and Oncology share a waiting area.

 

We'll just have to take deep breaths and do what's best for our sweet girl.

[Guest grey_dreams]

Zuki has a heart murmur. It was Grade 2 for a year and is now Grade 4-5. He has mitral valve insufficiency. With Lucy's murmur at Grade 3, it is likely that it isn't just a "normal" greyhound heart murmur. But these conditions are usually very treatable, and although there is no cure (other than surgery), it's not usually a crisis and most dogs can live happily with the condition.

 

Once you have the echo done you will know more about her exact condition.

 

Zuki turned out to be one of the rare dogs who can't tolerate ACE inhibitors (we tried enalapril and benazepril). So he gets herbs and supplements: CoQ10, carnitine, taurine, hawthorn, ginkgo, dandelion. I'm holding cayenne in reserve, should it be needed to add into the mix.

 

Sending good thoughts for you and Lucy!

 

 

Edited to add: Zuki's heart rate was around 35 for the past few times he's been at the vets. After he started getting the herbs and supplements, his heart rate was 20 at the last vet visit! They are working, and he is doing fine.

Edited May 4, 2012 by grey_dreams

[Charlies_Dad]

Jack has a heart murmur and he was in CHF when we brought him in back in late 2011 to see a Cardiologist. Thankfully he was able to stablize him. What is weird though and kind of follows what Tricia wrote is that three vets saw him, one thought grade 2, one thought 2-3 and the Cardio stated it was a definitely 3. Jack is now on a series of meds to keep his heart from growing too quickly as it's huge.

[Hubcitypam]

Poodles is a very strong 2/borderline 3. He takes theophylline (sp?) and has for a couple of years.