Osteo Thread

[vjgrey]

Good thoughts for you and Pepper.

[45MPHK9]

Pepper, my nine year old, is limping. Front right leg.

 

I'm going to give it a day because I know it could be anything, but I don't like the way it looks.

 

Thinking good thoughts for Pepper.

[TwiggysMom]

Not my osteo dog, but another of our greyhounds came to us with horrible, done-to-the-bone pressure sores. They can take a long while to heal and can look pretty bad while they're doing it.

 

Was it Twiggy or Berks that had to use the vacuum bandage post-amp? Anyway, hope she feels better soon!

Twiggy had the VacTherapy bandage. She had a rather large area to treat, so I'm not sure if it would be warranted for the pressure sore. That sure looks painful, though. I hope it starts healing up quickly! Poor pup.

 

Guys, I need some good thoughts here.

 

Pepper, my nine year old, is limping. Front right leg.

 

I'm going to give it a day because I know it could be anything, but I don't like the way it looks.

 

Oh, no. I so hope it is just a strain of some sort.

 

 

We're going to have to do something about Twiggy's protocol. She's got another infection, that's 6 infections in the last 4 months (not counting the bad one after surgery)! She also has diarrhea several times a week, and this week she's been having bloody watery diarrhea. Fortunately, it's starting to clear up with some metronidazole, but this isn't how she is supposed to live. Once she is stabilized, her oncologist will give us an altered plan to try (we already lowered her Palladia, looks like we'll be adjusting that some more).

[NeylasMom]

Guys, I need some good thoughts here.

 

Pepper, my nine year old, is limping. Front right leg.

 

I'm going to give it a day because I know it could be anything, but I don't like the way it looks.

Could she have injured it somehow? Did she start limping after she ran in the yard maybe? Lots and lots of good thoughts coming your way. This cannot be osteo.

 

 

Aw, poor Twiggy. I hope you can tweak her protocol to avoid the infections and tummy troubles.

[Charlies_Dad]

Good thoughts for Pepper. I really hope it's nothing serious.

 

Wendy, just asking about Twiggy and Palladia, how much is she getting and is she also on Pepcid AC? Charlie is taking the it just in case of tummy upset. I hope you are able to adjust the protocol so she is comfortable.

[giadog]

Good thoughts for Pepper! Hopefully it's just a tweak.

[BauersMom]

The limping seems better today, but I still get the sense her gait is "off", if you know what I mean. I'm not sure what to make of it.

[GreytHurleyDawg]

Hi guys!

 

I thought I'd check in since I have apparently been avoiding this thread like the plague....not intentionally, but avoiding it nonetheless, possibly just because of time constraints. Hurley is doing WELL!! He has had two post-chemotherapy checkups and has had no problems. He is not on any medications at the moment and is ecstatic to be at home romping in the yard. I have never seen a happier dog! Except in the mornings, when he whines until I get out of bed (upstairs, where he doesn't go)....he misses me that much. I am trying to gradually break his neediness of me because it is noticeable that my husband isn't acceptable for him.....he needs ME. But this sort of 'problem' is nothing to complain about, just to work on! He has one more monthly checkup and then he goes to every 3 months for xrays. His insurance JUST renewed on Monday and I had to push that last appt to that day because VPI was rejecting the last few payments since he must have reached a maximum for the diagnosis. I'll let you know if I make it to the holistic vet and decide to proceed with any recommendations for cancer-prevention. I just don't know if insurance would cover anything optional like that so then I may or may not decide to pay for it. We'll see what information I glean through the appointment. Once I make it!

 

The main thing is he is doing GREYT!!!!!

 

Everyone is in my thoughts and prayers. Joe's new collar is a touching story!

 

Johanna

[Guest amberj002]

It has been a while since I last checked in, but Nadia isn't doing so well. She was having a good day earlier in the week, wanted to keep walking and being stubborn so my husband figured if she wants to keep going then let her be happy....but boy she has paid for it. I keep praying that it will get better, but know in my heart that it probably isn't and we are very close to the end. She is still happy when we come home, excited for walks, but losing interest in treats the past couple of days, which worries me. I can't find my notes from the vet, anyone know what the max tramadol dose is? She is 62 pounds and currently getting 100/mg 3xs a day in addition to gabapentin and rimadyl.

Thanks!

Edited April 5, 2012 by amberj002

[vjgrey]

Gabe was a big boy (85 lbs), but at his max, he was on 150mg of tramadol, three times a day, in addition to gabapentin (three times a day), amantadine, and deramaxx. He was initially on rimadyl, but deramaxx seemed to work a lot better for him.

[NeylasMom]

It has been a while since I last checked in, but Nadia isn't doing so well. She was having a good day earlier in the week, wanted to keep walking and being stubborn so my husband figured if she wants to keep going then let her be happy....but boy she has paid for it. I keep praying that it will get better, but know in my heart that it probably isn't and we are very close to the end. She is still happy when we come home, excited for walks, but losing interest in treats the past couple of days, which worries me. I can't find my notes from the vet, anyone know what the max tramadol dose is? She is 62 pounds and currently getting 100/mg 3xs a day in addition to gabapentin and rimadyl.

Thanks!

You can bump that up to 125 mg 3x/day. What dose of Gabapentin is she on?

[Guest amberj002]

It has been a while since I last checked in, but Nadia isn't doing so well. She was having a good day earlier in the week, wanted to keep walking and being stubborn so my husband figured if she wants to keep going then let her be happy....but boy she has paid for it. I keep praying that it will get better, but know in my heart that it probably isn't and we are very close to the end. She is still happy when we come home, excited for walks, but losing interest in treats the past couple of days, which worries me. I can't find my notes from the vet, anyone know what the max tramadol dose is? She is 62 pounds and currently getting 100/mg 3xs a day in addition to gabapentin and rimadyl.

Thanks!

You can bump that up to 125 mg 3x/day. What dose of Gabapentin is she on?

 

Thanks for your replies. I have it all measured out in boxes so I am taking a guess here, but I think it is 800 mg over the 3 doses, pretty high.

[Guest amberj002]

It has been a while since I last checked in, but Nadia isn't doing so well. She was having a good day earlier in the week, wanted to keep walking and being stubborn so my husband figured if she wants to keep going then let her be happy....but boy she has paid for it. I keep praying that it will get better, but know in my heart that it probably isn't and we are very close to the end. She is still happy when we come home, excited for walks, but losing interest in treats the past couple of days, which worries me. I can't find my notes from the vet, anyone know what the max tramadol dose is? She is 62 pounds and currently getting 100/mg 3xs a day in addition to gabapentin and rimadyl.

Thanks!

You can bump that up to 125 mg 3x/day. What dose of Gabapentin is she on?

 

Thanks for your replies. I have it all measured out in boxes so I am taking a guess here, but I think it is 800 mg over the 3 doses, pretty high.

 

I forgot one of her pain meds, she is also taking amantadine...I think that is 100mg, 1x a day. The vet told me it takes 5-7 days to see any improvements, unfortunately it has been 11 days now and not seeing any improvement at all. Anyone else have experience with amantadine? Did it help?

[vjgrey]

It has been a while since I last checked in, but Nadia isn't doing so well. She was having a good day earlier in the week, wanted to keep walking and being stubborn so my husband figured if she wants to keep going then let her be happy....but boy she has paid for it. I keep praying that it will get better, but know in my heart that it probably isn't and we are very close to the end. She is still happy when we come home, excited for walks, but losing interest in treats the past couple of days, which worries me. I can't find my notes from the vet, anyone know what the max tramadol dose is? She is 62 pounds and currently getting 100/mg 3xs a day in addition to gabapentin and rimadyl.

Thanks!

You can bump that up to 125 mg 3x/day. What dose of Gabapentin is she on?

 

Thanks for your replies. I have it all measured out in boxes so I am taking a guess here, but I think it is 800 mg over the 3 doses, pretty high.

 

I forgot one of her pain meds, she is also taking amantadine...I think that is 100mg, 1x a day. The vet told me it takes 5-7 days to see any improvements, unfortunately it has been 11 days now and not seeing any improvement at all. Anyone else have experience with amantadine? Did it help?

 

Gabe was on it, but it was prescribed with all of the cocktail of meds from the beginning, so it's hard to tell whether it helped.

 

We did notice a big difference when we upped his gabapentin, and radiation treatments also helped a lot.

[joejoesmom]

 

We're going to have to do something about Twiggy's protocol. She's got another infection, that's 6 infections in the last 4 months (not counting the bad one after surgery)! She also has diarrhea several times a week, and this week she's been having bloody watery diarrhea. Fortunately, it's starting to clear up with some metronidazole, but this isn't how she is supposed to live. Once she is stabilized, her oncologist will give us an altered plan to try (we already lowered her Palladia, looks like we'll be adjusting that some more).

 

Wendy,

 

Joe had some side affects with the Palladia based protocol but nothing like this. He had some mild diarrhea (pudding poo) from time to time and two episodes of runny diarrhea. Metronidazole cleared it up quickly. He never had any infections (other than an initial UTI right after surgery). HIs counts did go low enough a few times that they gave him anywhere from 3 days to a full week off of protocol. They specifically looked at the neutrophil count and stopped if it went below 1000. Joe was a happy boy throughout, but he did enjoy his food a bit better once we stopped the chemo.

 

Joe update for everyone. The 4 treatment course of radiation did wonders for the pain in his left rear leg (where he now has another primary osteo tumor). His pain now seems to be controlled by 37.5 mg of Deramaxx and 50 mg tramadol 3x a day. Last Saturday I let him overdo it a bit so I had to give him an extra tramadol but he is back to normal now. He remains a very happy dog.

 

Miss Shelby is having more trouble with her rear end. For those that don't know she is a 15 1/2 year old whipador. Her mom was a definite whippet and we think dad was probably a black labrador. For those that might remember Twister, she is Twister's sister (i.e. littermate). She also currently has a UTI. Is there any chance a UTI would make her weak rear legs appear worse? She has arthritis in her paws and we are assuming she has it in her back. She is going in next Monday for an abdominal ultrasound to look for kidney stones (she has had several UTIs) and to see if there are any masses. If nothing shows up, I will keep treating her with tramadol until she tells me she's had enough.

 

Jane

[TwiggysMom]

Good thoughts for Pepper. I really hope it's nothing serious.

 

Wendy, just asking about Twiggy and Palladia, how much is she getting and is she also on Pepcid AC? Charlie is taking the it just in case of tummy upset. I hope you are able to adjust the protocol so she is comfortable.

 

Twiggy started out at 60mg Palladia 3 days/week. Since her wbc/neut tanked after about a month of this, we took her off everything for a week, then adjusted the Palladia down to 50mg.

 

Now that she's having the bloody diarrhea, (about 3-4 weeks later) we're taking her off everything again until she's doing well, then we will discuss further adjustments. I'm thinking we will go to 2 days/week for Palladia, or maybe every other week. As you know, doing 40 mg is a little awkward because of the available pill sizes. Fortunately, she is doing a little better - doesn't have to go often, but when she does it is still liquid. Hopefully she'll be feeling fine in another day or so. I just think Twiggy doesn't handle these particular meds very well. Honestly, she seemed to do better with her iv carboplatin. I suppose if it comes to it, we could take her off her current meds and in 6 months re-start iv chemo. Anyway, we've got options, just need to figure out which will be best.

 

 

 

Jane, I'm so glad Joe is holding strong with the pain meds. Also, I do think (without any medical experience to base it on) that a UTI could make Shelby seem more uncomfortable in her hind legs. If she's got pain in her abdomen, she might not want to move as well. (I know that if I've got a bad stomach ache, I don't walk well).

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that Nadia is having more difficulty. It sounds like you may have some room to tweak her medications a bit - I am hoping for more time with your beautiful girl.

[krissn333]

I haven't said much in a while, but I generally get in here to catch up daily...I'm thinking of all of you!

 

Pinky continues to do well - we did a meet and greet last Saturday and I took her. She charmed the pants off of everyone - I found it really interesting that most adults did not even seem to notice that she's a tripod...my mom pointed out that MAYBE the adults were just being polite and didn't want to say anything, but, I really think they just didn't notice - I don't think it'd be impolite to ask what happened to her, personally, but, whatever. There was one lady that noticed right away and it turns out that we have a mutual friend - Debbie, who visited us here in the thread when her girl Fine Point was diagnosed. But she was the only one All of the children we met noticed. I just think that kids are naturally more observant than adults

 

One family had a young girl, maybe 5 years old, and then a little boy around 3. The little girl asked what happened to her leg, and when I explained that she had cancer, she was very interested and said "well I'm glad she's okay now!" (so cute!). The little boy didn't say much, but he was fascinated by her stump He kept coming over and kind of bending over to the side to try to look at her "undercarriage" It made me giggle. I told him he could touch it (she doesn't care at all - she actually likes having her stump scritched ) and he looked at me like I was nuts But eventually he did it. Pinky just stood there. The family had come to our meet and greet because they're putting in an application to adopt They have a larger than normal papillon (not fat, just not to breed standard), and recently lost their doberman. They really want another largish dog, but, they'd kind of like a dog that doesn't NEED a TON of exercise. They'll be great adopters - VERY nice people, VERY conscious of their children's behavior, and the kids were absolute dolls - very gentle and respectful of the dogs

 

Saturday is Pinky's 5 month ampiversary

 

Question about cytoxan use and households with multiple dogs - do you have to keep the dog isolated from the other dogs for pottying in a fenced in yard? After her IV chemo, Pinky had to use the little yard so as to not contaminate the big yard with her toxic excretions...

[TwiggysMom]

I realized I forgot to answer about the Pepcid AC - Twiggy isn't getting that, I'm giving her omeprazole (Prilosec generic) instead). Also, if her nausea is really bad or ongoing, she gets metoclopramide. Normally, it is just the omeprazole (20mg am/pm. I worry about giving too much metoclopramide because it can have bad/irreversible side effects if given for too long.

 

Kristin - I've been wondering about Pinky, I'm glad to hear she's doing well. Re: the cytoxan, I asked Twiggy's oncologist about this issue, and he just said to be aware of where she goes and take a normal amount of caution. I told him that we have a shared yard where lots of small children play, and every once in a while Twiggy doesn't make it all the way out of the yard before having to pee. I asked if I should just hose the area down after, and he said that would be fine, and that I might not even need to do that. He said that we don't know the quantities of chemical that gets excreted in urine and the amounts they are getting in a metronomic protocol are so low that it probably isn't much of a risk. FYI-I have no option for Twiggy to go anywhere other than where many other dogs go, and he didn't think that was a problem.

[krissn333]

Thanks Wendy, that helps a lot!

[krissn333]

A couple of videos over in C&F - one short one of Pinky and then she is also in the video of Ace and her tomato too

 

We have an appointment Tuesday morning and we're going to talk about cytoxan a little bit. I think we should at least try it and if she has issues with it we can always discontinue.

 

How is everyone else doing?

[Guest snakes]

FedX is still ambleing along He is doing much better after the pamidronate treatment, well except for the skin tear they left on his leg from the IV!!!! (I didn't see it until i got home and took his vet wrap off.)

Of course he licked it soon after the treatment and now I am doing daily bacitracin/neosporin and wrapping the leg so he doesn't lick it worse!

I have never been overly impressed with his oncology group but it is one of two places to go to for Pamidronate around here. This is the last straw. I think we are switching down to Angell for his future treatments if he needs them.

[Guest kellygreyhound]

Did Twiggy have the resistant infections post-amp?? I think you'd mentioned that before when I was asking about Kell's post-amp infections, etc. Just wondering what you're experience had been after that. Seems the culture of the pressure sore from hell came back positive for a staph (I think, the vet left me a VM and is a low-talker) skin infection. Not as major as the last nasty, horrible infection, but they gave Kell another week of Zeniquin. What gives? Does the cancer just make them that much more susceptible to infections or is it that two rounds of resistant infections make one more susceptible to more bugs????

 

Sounds like poor Twiggy is in the "if it's not one thing, it's another" camp too Hugs to her, I hope she's getting as many lovins from strangers as Kell is (attention houndie!)!

 

Not my osteo dog, but another of our greyhounds came to us with horrible, done-to-the-bone pressure sores. They can take a long while to heal and can look pretty bad while they're doing it.

 

Was it Twiggy or Berks that had to use the vacuum bandage post-amp? Anyway, hope she feels better soon!

Twiggy had the VacTherapy bandage. She had a rather large area to treat, so I'm not sure if it would be warranted for the pressure sore. That sure looks painful, though. I hope it starts healing up quickly! Poor pup.

 

Guys, I need some good thoughts here.

 

Pepper, my nine year old, is limping. Front right leg.

 

I'm going to give it a day because I know it could be anything, but I don't like the way it looks.

 

Oh, no. I so hope it is just a strain of some sort.

 

 

We're going to have to do something about Twiggy's protocol. She's got another infection, that's 6 infections in the last 4 months (not counting the bad one after surgery)! She also has diarrhea several times a week, and this week she's been having bloody watery diarrhea. Fortunately, it's starting to clear up with some metronidazole, but this isn't how she is supposed to live. Once she is stabilized, her oncologist will give us an altered plan to try (we already lowered her Palladia, looks like we'll be adjusting that some more).

[greysmom]

The disease and especially the chemo really lower their immune system's ability to fight off infections. A cut or a minor infection can quickly turn ugly because they don't have any way to heal themselves.

[TwiggysMom]

Did Twiggy have the resistant infections post-amp?? I think you'd mentioned that before when I was asking about Kell's post-amp infections, etc. Just wondering what you're experience had been after that. Seems the culture of the pressure sore from hell came back positive for a staph (I think, the vet left me a VM and is a low-talker) skin infection. Not as major as the last nasty, horrible infection, but they gave Kell another week of Zeniquin. What gives? Does the cancer just make them that much more susceptible to infections or is it that two rounds of resistant infections make one more susceptible to more bugs????

 

Sounds like poor Twiggy is in the "if it's not one thing, it's another" camp too Hugs to her, I hope she's getting as many lovins from strangers as Kell is (attention houndie!)!

 

The resistant infection was post-amp at the surgery site. Since then, she has had minor infections (yeast, demodex, UTI, staph) - all of which respond well to treatment.

 

You're right, if it isn't one thing, it's another! She's currently working on fighting off a staph skin infection (we are just using Mupirocin, an antibiotic ointment, and while slow, it's working). She had a staph infection about a month ago, but it got really bad really quickly, so we used Simplicef for 3 weeks to treat that one. (Basically, we try to fight things with topicals if we think they'll do the job).

 

And yes, I think you are right - the cancer makes it harder for them to fight things off, because they're already busy trying to fight off the cancer; and as Chris said, the chemo really does a number on their immune systems, making even harder to get infections under control.

 

It sounds like Kelly and Twiggy both are making the most of their situations by using it to get as much attention as possible from everyone they meet!

 

Snakes - It does sound like time to make the switch. I had a hard time with the decision to switch oncologists myself, but the last chemo visit was the last straw, and now I wish I'd switched earlier. I've heard good things about Angell, I'm sure you'll be in good hands there.

 

Kristin - I wanted to watch Pinky's videos, but for some reason my computer won't play them. I just get a Quicktime logo. (which is odd, because I have Quicktime - and my own camera takes video in .mov format, so I don't know why I'm having this problem!) As far as the cytoxan, Twiggy's oncologist feels that it is not likely to cause side effects - thinks the Palladia is the source of Twiggy's issues (for whatever that's worth!)

[Guest snakes]

Snakes - It does sound like time to make the switch. I had a hard time with the decision to switch oncologists myself, but the last chemo visit was the last straw, and now I wish I'd switched earlier. I've heard good things about Angell, I'm sure you'll be in good hands there.

 

 

Yeah, i had thought about switching before, but at that point we were just going for the pamidronate infusion, no changes to treatment, no assessments really, I really just used them for thier drug!

After this though, i won't ever go back, If i can't even trust them to put an IV in without hurting him, it is time to stop. We are just doing infusions on an "as needed" basis, so i will just see how things go, as we all know things can change so dramatically form one day to the next I am not planning on or for anything....

If we do need more Pamidronate i will call Angell and set it all up, although i can't go back in time I just try to recommend everyone in this area go there instead these days!