Sedation When Traveling

[Guest Maire]

My 8 yr old peanny is very bad in the car. She whines & paces, and will only lay down on her bed for a very short time.

We will be making a 7 hr trip and I am wondering if anyone has used Acepromazine as sedation? Is it safe- I don't want her so sedated that she might fall

if trying to stand. My other girl is perfect. I've tried her on Composure that was given by the Vet on an hr trip & I swear it made her worse.

No luck with Rescue Remedy. I won't have room for a crate for her. Any suggestions? If I had to listen to her for 7 hrs I'd lose my mind & patience !

[BootsyCollins]

I have heard here that ace doesn't really help them relax - their minds can still go a mile a minute, but their bodies won't cooperate, so the anxiety is actually heightened.

 

Many folks on here have had good luck with melatonin.

[Riverhound]

Ace turned Joe into a zombie -- it was scary how out of it he was. Xanax is better for him. (We're using it for thunderphobia)

[Guest BlueCrab]

I've heard similar things about Ace as well...bad and scary stuff. Used it on horses for many years (in a past life, before easy access to the internet). Feel bad, now that I know more about it. I'd look into other options like melatonin as suggested.

[joejoesmom]

Personally I wouldn't use ACE -- I have just heard too many bad things about it. Try melatonin first and test it out. If that doesn't work get a script from your vet for Xanax. Be sure to try it out before your trip. If it doesn't work you can try Valium (also a script from your vet). Once again, try it out before your trip.

 

If crating would provide comfort, is it possible to borrow or rent a van?

[MP_the4pack]

I've heard that anxiety in the car can also be caused by car sickness even though they don't actually vomit. You can also try dramamine. It amy also cause her to sleep, which won't be a bad thing.

But try melatonin first.

[TheFullHouse]

I use Ace for Bebe when we have really bad thunder storms. I only give her half of a tablet. It keeps her calm but still able to get up and move around. There are other drugs available you can try.

[Guest BrianRke]

Ace also helps with car sickness. I have given it to Diamond and Frank on long road trips. Like Judy said, I only give them half a tablet even though the bottle says to give 1 or 2.

 

I also have xanax for Diamonds thunderphobia but the Ace seems to work better for car trips. I would definitely advise using a lower dose than is prescribed.

 

That being said, I dont know if I would give it to an 8yo dog. I would probably go with xanax on a senior "ish" hound.

[tbhounds]

Personally I wouldn't use ACE -- I have just heard too many bad things about it. Try melatonin first and test it out. If that doesn't work get a script from your vet for Xanax. Be sure to try it out before your trip. If it doesn't work you can try Valium (also a script from your vet). Once again, try it out before your trip.

 

If crating would provide comfort, is it possible to borrow or rent a van?

Yup-- I agree with Jane!!

[EllenEveBaz]

I remember an old article in CG Magazine suggesting that greyhounds be given only a half-dose of Ace, as they seem to be more affected by it than most dogs.

[Guest madredhare]

My sister used ace when we travelled a couple of years ago. It made her grey very grouchy. It's like he just couldn't snap out of it. He was very snappy toward my Sadie and they are best buds.

[krissn333]

I'd try melatonin first, then Dramamine. If those don't help, get a script for Xanax

[Walliered]

Thankfully my first Grey out grew this. Seems he was just plain scared and would stand and whine louder and louder until you would just about loose your mind. Hope yours improves with time.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Try giving a bendryl 1 hour before or a Content Um and go for short rides, building up the time.

 

No matter what type of prescription sedation you use, it doesn't have the effect if calming your hound, only makin it exhibit fewer annoying symptoms. Many tranquilized dog's experience greater anxiety, not less and it takes a mental and physical toll.

[JJNg]

Try giving a bendryl 1 hour before or a Content Um and go for short rides, building up the time.

Benedryl is unlikely to help as the majority of dogs don't get sleepy on it, and it doesn't have any anti-anxiety effect. I do agree with going on short rides to desensitize to travel, if you have the time to do that before your long trip.

 

Desensitization exercises need to start at a point where the dog is not overly stressed. If your girl starts to show signs of anxiety as she enters the car, that's where you start. Just get in and sit in the car while it is parked, feed a few treats, and get back out of the car. Repeat until the dog is comfortable with this process. Next step might involve starting the engine. Then backing down the driveway. Then driving around the block. If your dog doesn't get upset on shorter rides, you might be able to skip the early steps and go straight to short rides and gradually building up the time.

 

No matter what type of prescription sedation you use, it doesn't have the effect if calming your hound, only makin it exhibit fewer annoying symptoms. Many tranquilized dog's experience greater anxiety, not less and it takes a mental and physical toll.

This is true for straight sedatives like acepromazine. However, anti-anxiety (anxiolytic) medications like Xanax and Valium do actually calm the dog and reduce anxiety. This is why I agree with all the comments above about avoiding ace and going with a medication like Xanax.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Try giving a bendryl 1 hour before or a Content Um and go for short rides, building up the time.

Benedryl is unlikely to help as the majority of dogs don't get sleepy on it, and it doesn't have any anti-anxiety effect.

 

It's about 60% successful dosed properly, but most people start with too high if a dose and at that level it has the opposite effect in many dogs.

 

This is true for straight sedatives like acepromazine. However, anti-anxiety (anxiolytic) medications like Xanax and Valium do actually calm the dog and reduce anxiety. This is why I agree with all the comments above about avoiding ace and going with a medication like Xanax.

 

Well, there's nothing medically significant in the literature to substantiate that. I wish there were. Most likely because you can't accurately assess the effect of psych meds on a nonverbal patient, let alone a dog.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Swifthounds

[krissn333]

I'd imagine an EEG on a dog would accurately show the amount of brain activity happening while on different meds.

 

Also, if a dog is having a significant anxious reaction to the car, it's very unlikely something as light as benedryl (or even melatonin for that matter) is going to have any effect. The slow desensitization suggested by jjng is likely the best course of action. If the dog absolutely must travel before the desensitization can be done, Xanax is probably going to be the most effective.

[JJNg]

Benedryl is unlikely to help as the majority of dogs don't get sleepy on it, and it doesn't have any anti-anxiety effect.

It's about 60% successful dosed properly, but most people start with too high if a dose and at that level it has the opposite effect in many dogs.

What doses are you referring to? I'm usually using it for itching/allergies, and typically start with 1 mg/lb every 8-12 hours. Based on my own dogs and feedback from clients, I'd estimate that somewhere around 80% of dogs don't show any observable sedation from this dose of Benedryl. This is something I discuss with clients quite a bit because many people assume that their dogs are going to be knocked out by the medication (since most of them have had personal experience) and are surprised that this is rarely the case with dogs.

 

Well, there's nothing medically significant in the literature to substantiate that. I wish there were. Most likely because you can't accurately assess the effect of psych meds on a nonverbal patient, let alone a dog.

I agree that this probably isn't something that we'll ever be able to confirm with scientific studies since feelings and emotions are difficult to quantify in people, much less a non-verbal species. However, we can use our understanding of dog behavior and body language, and combine that with extrapolation from human descriptions of how these drugs make them feel, to come to some subjective conclusions on how they are working.

 

If a non-verbal human patient acts the same way on a psychoactive medication as a human patient who can verbally describe the experience, can we assume that the non-verbal patient is having the same, or at least a similar, experience? Then if a dog shows behavior that parallels human behavior on the same medication, can we conclude the the medication is acting similarly?

 

Each person's response to these questions may depend on their individual beliefs on a dogs' ability to experience feelings and emotions similar to ours. I believe that dogs are capable of experiencing a range of emotions that is similar to humans. And their brain chemistry and neurologic system are also close enough to ours that these medications should have similar effects.

[Batmom]

We had a similar discussion over in Everything Else a couple weeks ago, minus the whining. I honestly would just turn on some good music to drive by and let her do her thing.

[Hubcitypam]

Try giving a bendryl 1 hour before or a Content Um and go for short rides, building up the time.

Benedryl is unlikely to help as the majority of dogs don't get sleepy on it, and it doesn't have any anti-anxiety effect.

 

It's about 60% successful dosed properly, but most people start with too high if a dose and at that level it has the opposite effect in many dogs.

 

This is true for straight sedatives like acepromazine. However, anti-anxiety (anxiolytic) medications like Xanax and Valium do actually calm the dog and reduce anxiety. This is why I agree with all the comments above about avoiding ace and going with a medication like Xanax.

 

Well, there's nothing medically significant in the literature to substantiate that. I wish there were. Most likely because you can't accurately assess the effect of psych meds on a nonverbal patient, let alone a dog.

Do you have "the literature" with the 60% success rate in sedation on 1/3 dose of benedryl? Seriously, I'd love a link. I've used benedryl over the years at the recommended dose and have never had a dog either seem sedated or hyperaware on it. I just can't see how 1/3 a dose would provide much relief. A vet once told me that it took a lot more benedryl for a dog than a human to do any good. But heck, obviously vets (including him and jjing) don't know anything.

 

As far as Xanex, Nonverbal patients and dogs can be observed for calming signs, no doubt about it. If you're pacing, anxious, panting, restless, uneasy you are probably stressed. If you're stretched out you're not.

 

When I was at my worst you could have just looked at my tapping fingers and toes, swinging leg, pacing, fast breathing and lots of other things that would have told that the Ativan hadn't kicked in yet without me saying a word. I don't care what "the literature" says or doesn't say any dog owner worth his/her salt should be able to tell when their dog is stressed and thus if the anti-anxiety drugs are working or not.

 

I've had luck with Melatonin on SA but not thunderstorms, etc. Rescue Remedy is another "works on some but not others" product, but you have to use a couple of droppers to start.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I'd imagine an EEG on a dog would accurately show the amount of brain activity happening while on different meds.

 

Also, if a dog is having a significant anxious reaction to the car, it's very unlikely something as light as benedryl (or even melatonin for that matter) is going to have any effect. The slow desensitization suggested by jjng is likely the best course of action. If the dog absolutely must travel before the desensitization can be done, Xanax is probably going to be the most effective.

 

Yes, you can measure brain activity. No, that doesn't give you the whole story. Yes, you can extrapolate from verbal to non verbal and human to dog, but if you've dealt much with psych meds, it's very much a guessing game of trial and error with a human, verbal, well studied patient - let alone an animal - and all of them are body/organ toxic. Despite the fact that more than 50% of the American female population is on antidepressants, (and frighteningly prescribed by GPs who arent quite qualified to do so competently) psych meds really are to be a mode of last resort and never used in the absence of psychotherapy. The damage wreaked on a body from a few years of these meds can be frightening. The damage done over a lifetime will give even the hardest heart a new sympathy for the mentally ill.

 

Just to be clear, I was discussing suggestions for use WITH a desensitization program, not something to halt the dog's symptoms of anxiety/excitement and clearly discussed them in that context. As with SA and other anxiety related behaviors, the goal shouldn't be to stop the animal from being annoying, but to relieve it's suffering. Where used, medication should help allow a window for learning, not drug the dog into compliance.

[Batmom]

Benadryl: I *have* had a dog who was knocked for a loop by a much lower dose of Benadryl than recommended. It is not something I would use without a trial at home first, and when I was going to be home with the dog for many hours.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Benadryl: I *have* had a dog who was knocked for a loop by a much lower dose of Benadryl than recommended. It is not something I would use without a trial at home first, and when I was going to be home with the dog for many hours.

 

I second this for ANY medication in this situation. I would do at least 2 trial dosings in an environment other than the triggering one.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

I had a bad experience with Ace & my Hunter. My regular vet had given it but the specialty center I consulted with said they do not like Ace & especially in an older dog....they said there are many other options, like Valium, that they would go with. My mom's vet told her she does not like Ace & that she has actually witnessed a dog who never had seizures begin to have seizures after using Ace.

 

I have been using a product called Stress Free Calmplex from Springtime Supplements for one of my greyhhounds & my older shepherd mix....good results & you can vary the dosage based on the results you are looking for. Springtime Supplements Link

 

Good luck with your baby!

[GeorgeofNE]

We had a similar discussion over in Everything Else a couple weeks ago, minus the whining. I honestly would just turn on some good music to drive by and let her do her thing.

 

 

Me too. Sounds like maybe the OP might actually need the sedative instead of the dog! Of course if she's driving, that won't work.

 

My old dog was a horrible traveler. The older he got, the worse it got. It never occurred to me to drug him. He DID take Ace for flights to Nantucket (small 12 seater Cessna planes) but that was more for the other passengers than me. When he got to be about 9, the vet said he should not take it anymore. We tried Valium once, but it made him 10x noisier.

 

For the car, I just did my best to ignore him. No WAY he would have kept it up for 7 hours though. After about 45 minutes, he always stopped and just fell asleep.