Our Greyhound Bit My Wife

[Guest Harefoot]

This happened last night...my wife was trying to trim our Greyhound's nails (he was also in his bed, if that make any difference). I could tell that Ajax (his name) was not too pleased with the nail trimming...he kept letting out little cries of pain (whether real or imagined I do not know...I think he has a very low pain tolerance). The next thing I know, Ajax bit my wife in the face and then had a grip on her arm shaking it...he let go when i yelled at him (fortunately he only has a grip on the clothing and did not puncture the skin)

 

We are a little bit freaked out right now and need to calm down a little bit before we make any rash decisions...I think we understand why this happened and can take measures to ensure that it does not happen again (e.g. putting the muzzle on before clipping the nails) but we are not sure whether we can trust him.

 

Your thoughts?

[MaryJane]

How long have you had him?

[dante2zoe]

Others with a lot more experience will chime in, but from my perspective this was totally your wife's fault, for lack of better term. He was on his bed, he was uncomfortable, she didn't stop. He felt he had no choice. Use the muzzle, work slowly with the nails - not sure which method you were using, clipper v. dremel, have him stand up, treats after every foot or toe, depending on the situation. Or, go to PetsMart or your vet or somewhere like that and have them trim the nails until things are more comfortable and you and your wife understand your dog's language better. Heaven knows it took me long enough to understand what they were trying to tell me!

 

This shouldn't be a deal breaker. How is he today? How is your wife?

[TheFullHouse]

First, never trim your hounds nails on his bed. He trusts that he can sleep on his bed without anyone disturbing him and doing something like nails, which most don't like anyway will just make him not want to sleep on his bed any more.

 

Second, always muzzle a hound to do nails, at least until they have settled into the home and have been there a while. Although they do accept things easily, a lot don't like their nails done.

 

Third, if he was crying out, I would have stopped and gone back and tried again a little later, rather than force the issue, especially if he's new.

 

Start over from scratch building trust in him. Save the nails for another time or have the vet do it. Most only charge about $10.00. This will let him get over what he obviously saw as a bad experience.

 

Don't worry, we all make mistakes when bringing in new hounds. Most of us learned the same way you are, by trial and error.

 

Hope your wife is okay.

Edited November 4, 2011 by JillysFullHouse

[JAJ2010]

Nail cutting should not involve crying. It shouldn't hurt period! If it hurts your cutting in too far. Have you ever had a fingernail separate from your finger? The pain is insane.

 

Sounds like he was blatantly telling your guys that whatever you were doing HURT and you continued to ignore him until he had to step up his communication to the next level. Dogs have teeth and when in pain they react like animals. I'm none to pleasant when in pain. This is why you have to be very very careful around injured dogs who are in pain.

 

How long have you had Ajax? How is your wife doing? Did she need stitches? Have you talked to your rescue group yet? They may be able to provide you better support.

[msjpk]

I am so sorry that happened to her. Although no animal should bite, I

do say that I believe she was being warned.

Trimming nails can be tricky and it can be a two person job one person trimming and one watching the body language.

I hope your wife is ok- did she have medical attention?

[Yamaha_gurl]

Put your self in your doggies shoes...that's gotta suck big time if someone is hurting you right?

[Guest greyers]

Hi Harefoot and welcome to the forum. I am so sorry this happened and I hope that your wife is OK.

 

First off, it might be helpful to know how long you have had Ajax.

 

Some of the greyhounds I have owned, i have been personally unable to clip their nails. Even some haven't tolerated the dremel for nails well. Yet they do much, much better if we take them to a groomer or professional to do it.

 

Several things here...

1)While many greys are wussy's about their feet, are you certain you didn't clip his quick? Are you certain there is no previous injury or pain in the foot you were clipping at the time? Have you guys clipped Ajax before? ever had any previous problems?

 

2) The dog was clearly trying to give you a warning by the cries that he was hurt (whether imagined pain or real), he was warning you just like if it were a growl. When those warnings were not headed, your wife got bit. That is the dogs natural defense and he was acting on his instincts. Please know that this was natural for him to do, and not personal to your wife, however personal it feels to her.

 

3) some dogs do not take well to trying to do things like that in THEIR BED. Their bed is a place of safety and a safe haven for them, so it may truly not be the best place for you to do this.

 

4) if the dog is new to you, it may be too early to start this. and I really think at least for the time being, the dog needs to go only to the vet or groomers for nail trimming and a muzzle should be put on for their safely because now the dog has associated the clippers with a very negative experience (ie- pain and then a scolding) I am not saying you didn't have to yell at the dog to get him to let go, I am simply saying that he knows he did something wrong according to you guys and greys are very sensitive.

 

4)especially If the dog is pretty new to you, bonding and trust must be built up again before trying this again. For your safety as well as for the dogs.

Edited November 4, 2011 by greyers

[Tallgreydogmom]

I am sorry this happened and hope your wife is OK.

 

I would talk to your adoption group. He did warn you and he should have had his muzzle on. He was also in his safe domain, his bed.

 

Give everyone some time to re-establish their relationship.

 

I can cut some of our greyhounds nails by myself, some I need my husbands assistance, and one we take to the vet to have them clip his nails.

 

Remember, this is a learning experience for both you and your greyhound. It will take some time for each to learn about each other.

 

You will become an "experienced" greyhound owner thru "On The Job" Training. You will find they are well worth the learning.

 

Perhaps someone in your adoption group can help you with nails at a Meet and Greet. They are there to support you and your greyhound.

 

Hugs and kisses to you all.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Tallgreydogmom

[Time4ANap]

Most Greyhounds think of the bed and/or crate as their safe place. They should not be handled or touched while in their bed. It's also possible that she got too close to the quick and it was a pain reaction, but rule number 1 needs to be "all humans stay out of his bed."

 

Some hounds, like ours, will look like he's wide awake, but is actually sleeping with his eyes open. It is possible to startle him and get bitten. It has happened twice here, neither time his fault, as we was definitely startled out of sleep. We instituted a rule for ourselves and visitors after the first bite that we do not pet or handle him when he's laying down. He must be standing to be petted. In the case of the second bite, the person knew the rule, and forgot. He looked like he was awake. He wasn't.

 

The sweetest hound in the world can bite if startled. We do all handling such as nails, paw wiping, brushing giving meds, Frontline application, etc when he is standing and awake, and only when he's standing. No problem since.

 

 

 

[Brindles]

First, never trim your hounds nails on his bed. He trusts that he can sleep on his bed without anyone disturbing him and doing something like nails, which most don't like anyway will just make him not want to sleep on his bed any more.

 

Second, always muzzle a hound to do nails, at least until they have settled into the home and have been there a while. Although they do accept things easily, a lot don't like their nails done.

 

Third, if he was crying out, I would have stopped and gone back and tried again a little later, rather than force the issue, especially if he's new.

 

Start over from scratch building trust in him. Save the nails for another time or have the vet do it. Most only charge about $10.00. This will let him get over what he obviously saw as a bad experience.

 

Don't worry, we all make mistakes when bringing in new hounds. Most of us learned the same way you are, by trial and error.

 

Hope your wife is okay.

 

Judy's advice is spot on.

 

Please don't give up on the dog. I learned the same hard lesson once; I messed with my first greyhound while he was lying down and received a swift bite to the face. My own stupid mistake.

[kudzu]

It sounds like he was trying to let her know as best he could that this was a very unpleasant situation & he likely was giving other signals beyond just crying. My guess is that he felt your wife was ignoring those warnings & so he escalated. Am very sorry your wife was bitten, especially in the face. In her position I would both understand the cause of the bite while simultaneously loosing some trust in my dog. I think those feelings are unavoidable. Taking precautions, being patient plus some added time will help everyone calm down & begin to trust each other again. Don't forget that Ajax has likely lost his trust in at least your wife & possibly you. I do not mean that as criticism, but just want to make sure you realize that.

 

What I find disturbing is that he grabbed her sleeve & shook it rather than letting the escalation end with the bite. Did he bite & then immediately grab her sleeve or was their a few seconds gap? If this was just his warning & defense then I would have anticipated that after he snapped/bit & your wife immediately moved away then things would not have escalated past that point. If he bit, then your was did not or for could not immediately retreat then he may have escalated through fear because she was still close & he continued to feel threatened. Without having seen the incident it will be impossible for people to interpret.

 

Are you both familiar with canine body language & some basic behavior science? If not, it would be a good idea to do a little studying. The info is readily available on the internet. I can look of up some links for you later. Do you want me to? Yes, muzzling for nail trims in the future is best. It sounds like you need to do some training & counter conditioning to help Ajax feel comfortable with the trims. You may also need to re-evaluate the trimming method. What tool are you using, Dremel or clippers? If using clippers, what type are you using. Some dogs do much better with the scissor type clippers rather than the guillotine design.

 

Have you had any other situations where Ajax appears uncomfortable or fearful? Have there been any other incidents of snapping or warnings from him? Is it possible his feet are hurting? I ask the latter because my girl who normally can sleep through Dremel sessions had recently been trying to avoid having her nails trimmed. Now she has been diagnosed with SLO so it is entirely possible I was unintentionally hurting her when trimming her nails.

 

Hope your wife's injuries are minor & heal quickly. I also hope you can all work past this unfortunate incident & build a strong basis of trust & understanding. Wishing you all the best.

[Guest BrianRke]

I wouldnt be so quick to assume that it was hurting him. My first grey, Cleo, screamed with every nail I trimmed and I know it didnt hurt. She would even scream when I would lift her foot with the clippers in my hand. She never tried to bite me but I started taking her to the vet to have her nails trimmed. The main reason being that she wouldnt come near me for 3 days after I did it.

[JohnF]

My last dog, Angel, used to scream too, and scream so bad the vet told me to get out of the office and do some shopping while he trimmed them. Peggy doesn't like nails being done so I let the vet do it with her muzzled. There wss one time though when I was putting a sock over her foot (injured) and something from the sock must have got caught on one of the nails without me knowing. She squirmed, gave a deafening bark in my ear and went for my arm with a nipping motion, not puncturing the skin.

So most of them give ample warning, but I think all of them need a muzzle for trimming; and as they don't actually 'mind' muzzles what's the problem.

[kudzu]

As Brian said, the screaming may not be from pain. In fact, I find if the dog is crying off & on the whole time it is probably anxiety or fear. Though of course you would have to observe the session to have any clue. BF thought I was hurting my senior male Grey. "What did you do to him?" I responded, "Watch." Without touching my Grey's foot I reached forward to apply the Dremel to the tip of a nail. My Grey cried out but he did it BEFORE I had even touched him. He did the same thing if you tried to examine his ears.

 

I could rub his ears, pull on his ears, stick your finger in his ear, pick up his feet, tap his toes, pull on his nails and he would either enjoy it or ignore it but never showed the least bit of distress. Come at him with clippers or a dremel & prepare for a GSOD. Lift an ear flap while preparing to peer down his ear canal & you'd hear another GSOD.

 

Will agree with some others that nail trims should not hurt. If you think the cries were from pain then you need to stop. Still the OPs dog could have been hurting but it is just as possible this was from fear or anxiety.

[DevilDog]

I wouldnt be so quick to assume that it was hurting him. My first grey, Cleo, screamed with every nail I trimmed and I know it didnt hurt. She would even scream when I would lift her foot with the clippers in my hand. She never tried to bite me but I started taking her to the vet to have her nails trimmed. The main reason being that she wouldnt come near me for 3 days after I did it.

 

Regardless of whether it was real pain or just a drama-queen reaction, Ajax was clearly communicating that he wanted it to stop.

 

To the OP, if Ajax is new to you, it was a big no-no to trim his nails without a muzzle. Add that to doing it on his bed, and not heading his warnings led to the bite. It is in no way his fault. Greyhound or not, he is a dog, and dogs bite sometimes. This was 100% human error. Please do not even think of returning him for his reason. We've all made mistakes as new greyhound owners.. many on this board have been bitten for what is almost ALWAYS the humans fault. As to whether you can trust him or not.. well regardless of the bite, you always have to earn the trust of a new dog, and vice versa. I don't think this incident has anything to do with whether you can trust him in general.

 

Use this as a learning experience!

[Guest Swifthounds]

I wouldnt be so quick to assume that it was hurting him. My first grey, Cleo, screamed with every nail I trimmed and I know it didnt hurt. She would even scream when I would lift her foot with the clippers in my hand. She never tried to bite me but I started taking her to the vet to have her nails trimmed. The main reason being that she wouldnt come near me for 3 days after I did it.

 

They vocalize because it works - just look around at the way too long nails at most greyhound events and the popularity of nail trim stations. From the dog's perspective, someone he/she doesn't yet trust is doing something uncomfortable and usually doing it in a way much different than they're used to having it done.

 

Learning things in a new home, even things the dog has had exposure to is like driving in a foreign country. Sure, you know how to operate the car, but the rules and customs are different an take some getting used to.

 

You do absolutely need to look at the human mistakes involved and correct them (muzzle, standing dog, scissor trimmer or dremel, removing a small bit at a time instead of cutting off all the excess, etc.) but you also do so as to never reinforce for the dog that screaming or biting will end something they dislike.

[Guest mariah]

So sorry this happened, I'm sure it was very scary for all involved.

 

Echoing what others have said–the good news is that it sounds like he gave fair warning, and although he did end up biting, he didn't do much physical harm (I'm assuming this, right? You said no puncture wounds), and stopped when you told him to. As scary as it was, you have to remember that he was in a position where he could have done quite a bit more damage, but chose not to. Your feelings of betrayal and distrust are totally normal in the immediate aftermath of such an event. But from everything you've said, this doesn't sound at all like an "untrustworthy" dog, just one who felt that his warnings were going unheeded.

 

As far as nail trimming goes...many owners do not like to trim their dogs' nails, there's nothing wrong with going to a groomer or vet to have it done if the prospect of doing it yourselves is worrying.

 

I switched from the nail clippers to the Dremel tool with my own dog as I think the pressure caused by the clippers made him very uncomfortable (GHs have very thick nails so you do have to bear down quite a bit). Maybe that was Ajax's problem as well. If you do continue to trim at home, I would recommend getting the Dremel tool as it's much harder to go wrong with and I think most dogs tend to have less of an issue with it. Don't grind on the nail for more than ten seconds at a time, and each time the dog gets a small high value treat (something like cheese or hot dog bits) before you continue on with that nail (if needed) or move on to the next one.

 

Mine wasn't crazy about having his nails messed with period, but he began to get excited when the Dremel came out because it meant lots and lots of treats.

Edited November 4, 2011 by mariah

[racindog]

Yes indeed you can trust him! In fact you can trust him more than ever. Dogs bite. Its just a dog thing. Its not bad. It does not strike me as unusual that he bit while getting his nails done especially after he had provided plenty of warning that he was uncomfrotable with it. If a dog issues such a warning it is always wise to muzzle them before proceeding. The fact that he did not break the skin on the 2nd bite speaks volumes. What he did was demonstrate wonderful bite inhibition. If he had wanted to he could have produced a serious nasty and severe bite. But he didn't. Even though you pushed him over his bite threshold he still exercised bite inhibition and was clearly not trying to hurt. This means he is actually a very safe dog. Now you know that even if he is pushed beyond his bite threshold he may very well bite but it is not likely to be serious. You certainly can't say that about all dogs. I investigated many cases when I was an ACO and this is what I observed. In fact I never seen a repeat case. So if anything you can trust him more. Don't be mad at him. He's just being a dog-an exceptionally nice dog actually since he caused little of the damage that he could have had he wanted to. JMO.

[Mike516]

Not to go off subject too much but it was mentioned several times in this thread, on the subject of not touching them while they're in their bed; so say your dog goes into her bed and won't get up when you're leaving for work because she knows she's going in her crate and doesn't want to, what do you do? When I say won't get up, I mean will not get up on her own even for her favorite treat or for anything.

I had to leave this morning and had to physically put her on her feet because she went limp like a wet noodle. It was hilarious on the one hand because it didn't get past me that she's devious and trying to figure out how to test me and get over, but not so much at the same time because I didn't want to encroach on her space and she tucked her tail and of course looked sad as hell, but she can't stay where she was with no one home.

So, if I shouldn't have dragged her out of bed, then what could I have done?

 

I'm not saying nail trimming should be done in their bed, and this case certainly sounds like user error.

That said, I hope everything works out for you and I hope your wife is ok.

Is this the only issue you've had with your doggie or have there been other issues?

[JAJ2010]

Not to go off subject too much but it was mentioned several times in this thread, on the subject of not touching them while they're in their bed; so say your dog goes into her bed and won't get up when you're leaving for work because she knows she's going in her crate and doesn't want to, what do you do? When I say won't get up, I mean will not get up on her own even for her favorite treat or for anything.

I had to leave this morning and had to physically put her on her feet because she went limp like a wet noodle. It was hilarious on the one hand because it didn't get past me that she's devious and trying to figure out how to test me and get over, but not so much at the same time because I didn't want to encroach on her space and she tucked her tail and of course looked sad as hell, but she can't stay where she was with no one home.

So, if I shouldn't have dragged her out of bed, then what could I have done?

 

I'm not saying nail trimming should be done in their bed, and this case certainly sounds like user error.

That said, I hope everything works out for you and I hope your wife is ok.

Is this the only issue you've had with your doggie or have there been other issues?

 

 

Nicer people will say to go get the leash and put in on her to lead her off. I would most likely just pick the dog bed up and flop her onto the hard floor. I don't manipulate that easily. Although none of my dogs have bed issues. If I had one with bed issues and they did not listen maybe body block them off while keeping hands crossed in front of you? Or perhaps a squirt bottle?

[Mike516]

She didn't snap at me, just gave me the sad doe-eyes which may actually be worse lol. But yea I'm with you, she has to realize who's boss and it ain't going to be her. One thing I may do is leave her harness on after her walk while I'm getting ready for work so I have something to grab if she decides to be stubborn (my wife's idea).

[FiveRoooooers]

You are getting some very good information here. The only thing I will add is to always be very aware of your body language, and especially when trimming nails. It can be very easy to find yourself "leaning over" or "on top" of the dog just to get a better angle on the nail - meanwhile, your dog has perceived your posture as a threat. Good luck to you guys, and I really hope you don't give up on your pup!

[Guest greyers]

Not to go off subject too much but it was mentioned several times in this thread, on the subject of not touching them while they're in their bed; so say your dog goes into her bed and won't get up when you're leaving for work because she knows she's going in her crate and doesn't want to, what do you do? When I say won't get up, I mean will not get up on her own even for her favorite treat or for anything.

I had to leave this morning and had to physically put her on her feet because she went limp like a wet noodle. It was hilarious on the one hand because it didn't get past me that she's devious and trying to figure out how to test me and get over, but not so much at the same time because I didn't want to encroach on her space and she tucked her tail and of course looked sad as hell, but she can't stay where she was with no one home.

So, if I shouldn't have dragged her out of bed, then what could I have done?

 

I'm not saying nail trimming should be done in their bed, and this case certainly sounds like user error.

That said, I hope everything works out for you and I hope your wife is ok.

Is this the only issue you've had with your doggie or have there been other issues?

 

when prudence does this because she knows she will get a bath or something she doesn't want to do, I get out the leash and she always gets up and then I lead her to where I want her, giving her a "treat" to reward the behavior I want. That way I can safely guide her and not make the experience so stressful for her.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

I didn't read the replies but this to me is very basic. Dogs, all dogs IMHO, need to have their safe spot. The spot where they go when they want to sleep and be left alone. You pup's safe spot was violated with , from what I have seen in my limited 6 years with the hounds, with one of the greatest tortures ever invented by mankind towards greyhounds,,,nail trimming. Followed closely by the bath.

 

Just not the right place and time. I have one of the most mellow greys in the universe. She has never bitten anyone. Has warned us a few times when she was new. We still do her nails with he wearing a muzzle and we do it outside, never even thought about buggin her in her bed . Just not going to chance it. In fact, I have never seen anyone do a greys nails without a muzzle on the dog. But there is a chance you were hurting your pup too. Cutting the quick is doG-awful painful. Your pup took it for as long as possible but they can't speak so they told you the only way they know how, to get you to stop.

 

Correct time, place and skill will help,,along with a muzzle.