NeylasMom Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Shannon, I'm so glad to hear that Elly is fitting right in. It really makes me happy to hear that. Now all we need is lots and lots of pictures. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest falconschild Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Well, the Gabapentin is doing well...but Toby has a mommy who is very bad at math. When we increased his Tramadol dosage, I didn't realize we were starting to run low on the pills. So I dutifully refilled his Novox to get him through the long weekend, but not the Tramadol. If I increase his Gabapentin dosage, would that help to cover for not having the Tramadol until I can get him more on Monday? I feel so stupid for not having counted those damned pills yesterday. >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roselle Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Elly Beans arrived yesterday morning. What an absolute joy she has been. She has fit right in....figured out the dog doors, is a good eater, found the bed, sofa and dog beds. She slept in bed with all of us last night. Our neighbors set off some fireworks at midnight and that startled her(and us) but we turned on the TV loud enough to drown it out and she went right back to sleep. She's a dream and we love her. I am so glad the gabapentin is helping Toby. It is a wonderful drug for greyhounds who don't tolerate high doses of Tramadol. Jen, many hugs. All I have to do is look at Flash's urn and I bust into tears. They sit in my office beside my computer with the others I've lost. I miss him so but Elly has definitely brought some joy into our lives. Welcome home Elly Beans. Have a good life, well you found the bed already sounds like your life has begun. Hugs Roselle and Gracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roselle Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Glad the Gabapentin is helping. Well I wasn't very excited at the thought of bringing in a new year that wouldn't include Neyla, but I managed to have some fun with friends last night. This morning I had dreams about Neyla. I've been having them since I got home. I'm still doing okay, but I miss her more and more with each passing day. I still haven't even thought about getting her ashes back. I think that just seems too final. I guess I will know when it's time to have her home. I hope everyone else and their pups are doing well. Wishing everyone a cancer free 2011, that's for sure. Shannon, when does Elly come home? Being able to go on with life is the best way to honor Neyla's memory. In the Jewish tradition the mourners mourn for 3 days and then life goes on. I hope you celebrate a new year and keep Neyla in your heart. HAPPY NEW YEAR, Roselle and Gracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well, the Gabapentin is doing well...but Toby has a mommy who is very bad at math. When we increased his Tramadol dosage, I didn't realize we were starting to run low on the pills. So I dutifully refilled his Novox to get him through the long weekend, but not the Tramadol. If I increase his Gabapentin dosage, would that help to cover for not having the Tramadol until I can get him more on Monday? I feel so stupid for not having counted those damned pills yesterday. >.< I have actually heard that Tramadol is not a drug you should stop cold turkey. Do you know anyone, maybe someone from your adoption group who lives nearby and might be able to lend you some? If he's ever been seen by your emergency vet, you might be able to get them to dispense some, but they aren't able to if they haven't seen him as a patient. Otherwise, hopefully the increased Gabapentin will help and only a day or two won't hurt much. Wish you lived nearby. I have a slew of drugs, I'd be happy to drop some off. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nikkikaye Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Jen, i havent been on GT in a while- partly because I was dreading the post about Neyla. You are such an awesome greyhound advocate, rescuer, and foster mom. No matter how many people said it, I'll say it again... Neyla was lucky to have you... and deep down, you know that. It doesnt make it hurt any less. You should allow yourself to cry. and a lot. I did. In fact I still cry for my angel Jasmine (4/00-8/10)about every day. My heart dog-with me almost 9 years- I need to cry- i just do. Your undying love and compassion for Neyla was obvious in all your posts. I remember all those years ago when i first met the beautiful Neyla lying on your sofa like the queen of all she surveyed. Lets just say her eyes told me she was not interested in "making new friends". I know you are laughing because you know what i mean Boy did that little girl change. She evolved into a sweet loving trusting angel and the last time I saw her I remember thinking what a great mom you must be to teach her to trust the world like that. You did a great job Jen from beginning to end. All us GT wierdos get it. at least I know I do. peace to you Jen, your pal, Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChasesMum Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 well poo....hopefully Toby does ok today! I could drop some off but its a LONG way from me to you. Chase's ashes are on the ledge by the stairs...I see her every day and get a little teary. But I do agree that life continuing on is a good way to honor them. There is lots of "shoulda's" in my life but fact remains that I am a busy mom of 3 little kids (6, 3 and almost 1) and I think another dog would be tormented beyond the norm so we are waiting... Chase was just AMAZING with the kids though. they climbed on her and could take food out of her bowl, or a toy from her and she never cared. I know I said this before but she actually would ask my 5yo dd to play tug or keep away. BEST DOG EVER! and it still feels like we could never replace her. Hope everyone is keeping warm today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest falconschild Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Well, the Novox/Gabapentin combo without the Tramadol was not what I would call sufficient. Our wonderful vet's staff is making up another round of Tramadol for Toby, and I will go get it when I get off of work around lunchtime. I also made an appointment for later this week to have more X-rays taken so we can have a look at how things are progressing. Toby was obviously uncomfortable yesterday and last night, much more so than he was when he was first diagnosed before Christmas, so I know that the monster is advancing. Hopefully the X-rays and exam will give Allan and I a bit firmer of a compass to guide us as to how to proceed with Toby's best interests in mind and heart. If there is anything at all good to be said about our situation, it is that this has brought us even closer to Toby and he to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tatum Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Update on Tatum: She has had some pain episodes this weekend... nothing too serious. She cried out a few times but was over it right away. Her tumor is noticeably bigger = golfball size Christmas Eve now > baseball size. She is not using the leg much anymore either. She is also a big attention whore <as Nelya's mom would say! I can't stand seeing her in ANY pain and wonder if it is constant. We are giving NAISD twice a day. Here is what works for us... we crush the pill and then add a big spoonful of yogurt or cottage cheese. She laps it up easily. I am thinking we should let her go the end of this week. She really doesn't have much of a life now...eat sleep and hobble outside for potty. This is torture, she is still so cute. Thanks for listening. Marilee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Marilee, I'm so sorry that you're facing this decision. I do believe based on your description of everything that she is in pain. Pain from osteosarcoma occurs from different things so generally one pain medication is not enough. NSAIDs like what you are using address inflammation and seem to help a good bit, but they don't address other types of pain. Typically people also use Tramadol, which is much like an opiate without having as many side effects as opiates as well as Gabapentin for neurological pain. Both can be purchased as human meds at your local pharmacy that does generic $4 Rx's for very little money. Max dosages for my 55 lb Neyla were 136 mg Tramadol 3x/day and 500 mg Gabapentin 3x/day. We started at 50 mg of Tramadol 2x/day and then added in Gabapentin at 200 mg 2x/day so you can go quite high on these meds safely, unlike the NSAIDs which have a much smaller range. I heard over and over again during the time I had with Neyla that bone cancer is very painful and I believe that our dogs are much more stoic than we'd like to think so I would encourage you to try adding in these meds, even if you are considering letting her go later this week. An x-ray may also help you determine if the bone is at risk of fracturing. No one should have to make these decisions, I know how very hard it is and I wish you the peace to make the right decisions for Tatum and some good, pain free days with you. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlies_Dad Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Marilee, I am sorry that you are having to make this decision so soon. It is brutally hard so watch your pup in pain and so very hard to say goodbye. I hope you do have a few more good days with memorable moments that will make you smile someday. Our thoughts are with you during this difficult time, please give Tatum a hug from me. Quote Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge. Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vahoundlover Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Marilee, I am so sorry you are facing this decision so soon. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Hoping Toby has a better day today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest falconschild Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 It's been a rough few days here. We got Toby back on his Tramadol yesterday, but it doesn't seem to be helping overmuch yet. I'm hoping that that is just because he needs to get it built up in his system again to see the same results we were getting. There's times I say to myself how unfair this is, both to Toby and to us. We lost our 17-year-old cat, Norman, to stomach cancer at the end of October...and now this. And all I can really tell myself is "You're damn right it's not fair. But some day, one day, there will be a cure, and nobody else's hounds will have to hurt like this." It doesn't make it all better...but it's something small to think of. Toby has taken to propping his lower body over Allan's knee to take the weight off his hips while he's being petted. When he was first diagnosed, I had wondered if a canine wheelchair might not be helpful for him. I've been wondering that again since he started with this behavior. If our house was bigger, I'd probably already have been looking into the option. I just hope his meds kick in better soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roselle Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 It's been a rough few days here. We got Toby back on his Tramadol yesterday, but it doesn't seem to be helping overmuch yet. I'm hoping that that is just because he needs to get it built up in his system again to see the same results we were getting. There's times I say to myself how unfair this is, both to Toby and to us. We lost our 17-year-old cat, Norman, to stomach cancer at the end of October...and now this. And all I can really tell myself is "You're damn right it's not fair. But some day, one day, there will be a cure, and nobody else's hounds will have to hurt like this." It doesn't make it all better...but it's something small to think of. Toby has taken to propping his lower body over Allan's knee to take the weight off his hips while he's being petted. When he was first diagnosed, I had wondered if a canine wheelchair might not be helpful for him. I've been wondering that again since he started with this behavior. If our house was bigger, I'd probably already have been looking into the option. I just hope his meds kick in better soon. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Nothing is more upsetting then having your poor pup suffer. Hug Toby for me and I'm sending you a zap of strength to get you through tis ordeal. heres to less pain or no pain today. Roselle and Gracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tatum Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Question for NeylasMom (or whoever can answer) - Do I ask my vet to call in a script for these human meds for Tatum? We are almost out of the NSAIDs anyway so I need more of those. Also he (my vet)charged us $20 for 16 of the NSAID (PetProven) is that a typical price. Just wondering. Thanks for all the advice and help. This site is a godsend! Marilee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Question for NeylasMom (or whoever can answer) - Do I ask my vet to call in a script for these human meds for Tatum? We are almost out of the NSAIDs anyway so I need more of those. Also he (my vet)charged us $20 for 16 of the NSAID (PetProven) is that a typical price. Just wondering. Thanks for all the advice and help. This site is a godsend! Marilee Unfortunately the NSAIDs are dog meds so you can't get those from the human pharmacy. Not sure which NSAID you're giving, but assuming the prices are similar you can expect to pay around $4/100 mg pill. At least that's the going rate for Deramaxx. You can get it a little bit cheaper online, but then of course you have to wait for it to be shipped. Some vets offices also charge a fee to fill a Rx so taht can add to your bill. My regular vet doesn't, you just have to purchase a minimum amount of medication, but my oncology place did (something like $18 each time) so you might want to ask about that. The Tramadol and the Gabapentin you just ask to have called in to the human pharmacy in your dog's name (Tatum + your last name), or if your vet won't do that, get written Rx's and drop them off yourself. I think the pharmacies are pretty used to that sort of thing by now, I've never run into any problems. I would suggest asking your vet to call it in at the max dosage so that when you need to increase again, you don't find yourself short on pills assuming you have the money. I would get mine at Costco and a month's supply of both Gabapentin and Tramadol at Neyla's max doses cost me about $30-40 I think. Regarding the pain meds kicking in, you should see a pretty quick effect from either the Tram or the Gabapentin, certainly within 24 hours. I will tell you that initially I would try increasing a little bit, then waiting to see if it worked, then more until I finally realized that that wasn't working so I bumped everything up significantly figuring I could always back off it it was too much. Keep in mind that I'm only talking about those two, you don't want to increase your NSAID. With the Tram/Gabapentin the only side effects you're looking for are sleepiness (no harm in that) and wooziness. We saw the latter at 400-500 mg Gaba 3x/day and not at all no matter how high we went on the Tram so I just backed down a little on the Gabapentin. But basically, just be careful right after you increase the meds that you're there when he stands up initially in case he is a little dizzy. With Neyla, I noticed it was more when she first stood up and then she sort of adjusted, but I wasn't comfortable with it anyway b/c I didn't want to risk her falling so we stayed at 300 until the last day. Sorry, I'm going on and on. I just hope that maybe a little bit of this info is useful to you. I defintiely would have done some things differently if I had known a month ago what I know now about managing her pain. I would have been more aggressive with the Tram/Gabapentin sooner and I probably would have let Neyla go a week earlier. That last week things just blew up, it was unbelievable. And we had had an x-ray only days before I made the decision. Osteo is just really nasty and I am with you that hopefully there will be a cure and people won't have to go through what you're going through right now. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Is there anyone who could use any of the supplements I was giving to Neyla? I have a ton of artemisinin, some artemether and artesunate, Butyrate, Boswellia, a mushroom blend (liquid), curcumin (several varieties), some Max's Formula and Bone Stasis. If anyone can use any of this, let me know and I'll get it in the mail to you. You can PM me your address. Otherwise, I will offer it on the artemisinin group. I also have a ton of Gabapentin that I can mail out. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 If no one steps up to the plate, when my Pearl died, she was on a ton of heart meds. I donated them to OSU, and they gave me a document indicating the cost of each med so that I can use on my tax returns. So they get donations and you get a tax break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmc333 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I had Gypsy's gaba filled at Walgreens. 90 pills 300 mg. ea was $23.99. The rimadyl 30 pills @ 100 mg was $49 from the vet's office. I got the tramadol from the vet too - can't remember how much that was, but didn't think it was bad, price wise. And I upped Gypsy's tram and gaba on her last day to way more than the max. allowed, just so she could be comfortable that last day. I figured the worst that would happen is she'd overdose and die in my arms on the couch. The vet gave her a sedative and two injections of the actual "kill" medicine before her heart stopped. Knowing that, I wish I had upped her trama/gaba much earlier. And her pain level just into the stratosphere literally overnight. damn it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlies_Dad Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Is there anyone who could use any of the supplements I was giving to Neyla? I have a ton of artemisinin, some artemether and artesunate, Butyrate, Boswellia, a mushroom blend (liquid), curcumin (several varieties), some Max's Formula and Bone Stasis. If anyone can use any of this, let me know and I'll get it in the mail to you. You can PM me your address. Otherwise, I will offer it on the artemisinin group. I also have a ton of Gabapentin that I can mail out. Hey Jen, if nobody else asks, we can certainly use the artemisinin. I just ordered some more actually only about a week or so ago. We haven't tried artemether and artesunate for Charlie. Quote Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge. Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest falconschild Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 We've given Toby the biggest doses of painkiller we felt safe giving over the last day...they aren't doing anything anymore. Allan spent last night dozing with him on the couch, but now that he's awake, he's crying again. We've talked it over and thought hard about it. We're going to let Toby cross the Bridge today. He's fought hard and we've fought hard, but persisting would be selfish and for us, not what's best for him. Allan made a very good point this morning. He said, "That's what makes it so hard, makes you want to put it off...aside from the cancer, everything's fine and you know it." We're going to miss our sweet goofy Goober-dog terribly. Damn this monstrous disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'm so sorry, falconschild. Please give Toby a kiss for me and tell him how handsome and how good he is. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roselle Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 We've given Toby the biggest doses of painkiller we felt safe giving over the last day...they aren't doing anything anymore. Allan spent last night dozing with him on the couch, but now that he's awake, he's crying again. We've talked it over and thought hard about it. We're going to let Toby cross the Bridge today. He's fought hard and we've fought hard, but persisting would be selfish and for us, not what's best for him. Allan made a very good point this morning. He said, "That's what makes it so hard, makes you want to put it off...aside from the cancer, everything's fine and you know it." We're going to miss our sweet goofy Goober-dog terribly. Damn this monstrous disease. I'm so sorry for Toby and your family. This has got to be the hardest part of this cancer. Know that you are not alone, we are all with you. Sending a cyber hug. Roselle and Gracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 We've given Toby the biggest doses of painkiller we felt safe giving over the last day...they aren't doing anything anymore. Allan spent last night dozing with him on the couch, but now that he's awake, he's crying again. We've talked it over and thought hard about it. We're going to let Toby cross the Bridge today. He's fought hard and we've fought hard, but persisting would be selfish and for us, not what's best for him. Allan made a very good point this morning. He said, "That's what makes it so hard, makes you want to put it off...aside from the cancer, everything's fine and you know it." We're going to miss our sweet goofy Goober-dog terribly. Damn this monstrous disease. I'm so sorry. For someone who has just gone through this, I am sorely at a loss for words. Just spend every moment of today with him, enjoy your time and try not to think about what's coming as it will be here soon enough. When the time comes, know that we are all thinking of you. I will be sending warm thoughts for you and wishes for a peaceful passing for Toby. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teri_d Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 toby's skin folk - you are in my thoughts and prayers today - just sucks, no other words -- jen - i'm still thinking about you and hoping you're coping ok -- hugs to all of you - teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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