Osteo Diagnosis

[Charlies_Dad]

I'm sorry Toby had a bad night...there is nothing like having your pup in pain. I feel for you and it breaks my heart that he has this disease. Upping the pain meds sounds like the best option and hopefully your vet will provide you with whatever is necessary to keep Toby comfortable. Please let us know what happens and know that we are all here for you and him.

[Guest azlorenz]

I'm sorry Toby had a bad night...there is nothing like having your pup in pain. I feel for you and it breaks my heart that he has this disease. Upping the pain meds sounds like the best option and hopefully your vet will provide you with whatever is necessary to keep Toby comfortable. Please let us know what happens and know that we are all here for you and him.

 

Like Kyle said. Gabapentin did wonders for Flash when nothing else would.

[NeylasMom]

Any updates on Toby? The max dosages on the non-NSAID meds (Tramadol, Gabapentin, etc.) are quite high so do call your vet and see how high you are allowed to go. Even if you don't need to today it's good to have it written down somewhere so you have it available if something like that happens again. I would also get Rx for a few other things to have on hand, including something a bit stronger. We tried Tylenol w/codeine, but there are a few opiate options you could choose from just in case.

 

Shannon, a big old congrats on your pending addition!! Elly is beautiful and I'm so happy you're ready to welcome a new pup into your home. Can't wait to hear more about her and see more pics!

[teri_d]

Any updates on Toby? The max dosages on the non-NSAID meds (Tramadol, Gabapentin, etc.) are quite high so do call your vet and see how high you are allowed to go. Even if you don't need to today it's good to have it written down somewhere so you have it available if something like that happens again. I would also get Rx for a few other things to have on hand, including something a bit stronger. We tried Tylenol w/codeine, but there are a few opiate options you could choose from just in case.

 

Shannon, a big old congrats on your pending addition!! Elly is beautiful and I'm so happy you're ready to welcome a new pup into your home. Can't wait to hear more about her and see more pics!

 

jenn - how are you doing? you have been in my thoughts and prayers!!!

[Guest falconschild]

Sorry it's taken so long for me to reply...I wound up stuck late at work today. Toby's - he's about the same, I guess. Our regular vet wasn't in today, and his sub wasn't familiar with Toby's case. So for tonight, we're bumping the Tramadol up to 75mg from 50mg to see if that will help him get comfortable enough to rest. And in the morning, we'll talk again with our vet to see if he wants to go forward with the Gabapentin.

[NeylasMom]

Sorry it's taken so long for me to reply...I wound up stuck late at work today. Toby's - he's about the same, I guess. Our regular vet wasn't in today, and his sub wasn't familiar with Toby's case. So for tonight, we're bumping the Tramadol up to 75mg from 50mg to see if that will help him get comfortable enough to rest. And in the morning, we'll talk again with our vet to see if he wants to go forward with the Gabapentin.

If it helps, Neyla's max dosage at 55 lbs was 125 mg 3x/day. That was alongside her nsaid and up to 500 mg Gabapentin 3x/day. Don't be afraid to increase more if you need to - bone cancer is very painful. The other alternative, which is probably better if you can swing it, is to give the 75 mg but do it every 6 hours. That just wasn't practical for us, but if he's waking you up with pain, I would give another dose then. All of this with the caveat that I'm not a vet of course. Although I do feel like a freaking pain med expert - I did a LOT of research on my own about drug interactions, side effects, max dosages. etc.

 

 

Teri, I'm doing pretty well thanks for asking. Today was the first day I went back to work and coming home was tough. I started getting really anxious in the car and by the time I was parking I had kind of lost it. Coming in the door and not being greeted by Neyla was really tough. Zuri is still crated in the bedroom when I'm at work so it was always just Neyla who would come running to the top of the stairs wagging when she heard the door. It was my favorite part of each day, coming home to her. It's always tough right before I go to bed too.

 

I really think it's only beginning to sink in. Being at home in Pgh it felt like I was just away, like I'd come home and pick her up from my friend's house when I got back to DC. I haven't even begun to think about calling to have her ashes delivered or writing her remembrance thread. This is certainly not at all what I expected it would be.

[Guest falconschild]

After having had two doses of the 75mg Tramadol...it doesn't even seem to have made a dent in Toby's discomfort. It seems like he doesn't want to lie down at all now. Is it possible that this has crossed over his spine to his other hip in two weeks or less? I think we're going to make an appointment when I talk with Dr. Borden tomorrow and have more x-rays done so we can see the progression. I'm glad I have you folks for ideas and suggestions...and I'm glad I have my husband to help keep me from being selfish and not acting in Toby's best interests. I'll try giving him 25mg more of the Tramadol, see if I can get him settled for the night.

 

Gods, I hate this disease. Hate it worse than my own diabetes. I can wear a pump, monitor my blood sugar, keep myself in decent shape. There's no stopping this monster, and I know he doesn't fully understand why he's hurting, only that he's hurting.

[Guest falconschild]

We gave Toby the Tramadol every 6 hours or so last night...and it seemed as though we weren't giving him anything at all. He panted and cried quite literally all night long. I'm afraid now. Allan said Toby stepped down wrong while out in the yard this morning and yelped quite loudly, then came immediately to him. That's a new development, and it makes me worry that his pain may be more now than anything we could give him can beat. Allan and I have started discussing if we want to let Toby cross the Bridge tomorrow, when we know Dr. Borden will be able to be with him, rather than risking a trip to an evet at some point during the New Year's weekend. It's difficult to make these kinds of decisions and be fully confident in what you're doing when you know you're exhausted because you haven't been sleeping due to being up at all hours with the dog. I'll talk with the vet today and see what his opinion is as well. I've always been able to rely on a fair, balanced opinion from him.

[Batmom]

My heart goes out to you and your Toby.

[AndysMom]

Falconschild, I know how difficult this is for you as you try to make the right decision for Toby. We're looking ahead to the same situation in the very near future and I would rather make the choice to have our Arathorn put to sleep a day early than to risk doing it a day too late. I really don't want to wait until his pain is uncontrollable to let him go; that would just be selfish of me to keep him with us too long. If you trust your vet, let him/her offer you some advice as to Toby's pain level.

 

We'll be thinking of you and Toby as you make your decision.

 

Lois

[Guest falconschild]

I think what we've decided to do is to put Toby on a pain regimen similar to what Neyla was on that her mom mentioned to get through the holidays (and hopefully allow the two of us to get some rest as well), then get him in to see Dr. Borden, have him examined, and let the three of us decide what we want to do from there as a team. Realistically, we know we're only delaying the inevitable here...but a few more days of good time and a well-rested level-headed decision would sit so much better with Allan and with me.

 

And as a side note...I am incredibly jealous of your ability to have found a wonderful greyhound whose original namers were so very obviously Tolkien fans. What a cool name for your dog!

Edited December 30, 2010 by falconschild

[AndysMom]

The whole litter was named after Lord of the Rings characters. A lot of people don't "get it". Arathorn was his racing name.

 

Boromir

Elladan

Finduilas

Thranduil

Arathorn

Dodge's Rohan

Mordor

Tolkien

Frodo

Gimli

King Aragorn

Edited December 30, 2010 by AndysMom

[NeylasMom]

Toby's mom, what is your current pain regimen? Do you have him on anything other than Tramadol?

 

One thing to keep in mind, Tramadol causes some dogs to get anxious and pant or whine so it may actually be the increased Tramadol that caused what you saw last night.

 

Can you take him in for an x-ray today, just so you have a little more information going into the weekend?

[Guest falconschild]

We have him on Novox 2x/day and 75mg of Tramadol 3x/day. I had read earlier in the thread about that possible panting/whining side effect of Tramadol, but I've also noticed him limping a lot more heavily than he had been, which is what inclines me to think it's pain and not just the drugs. He's also losing his appetite, where he was eating better before. Dr. Borden still isn't in the office today (not that I blame him in the slightest - everyone deserves some time off around the holidays). So while I am reasonably comfortable with the advice of his substitute, in matters involving major things like this and end-of-life care, etc., I vastly prefer having Dr. B. see my pets. So long as Toby responds well to the Gabapentin, I think we'll be okay through the weekend and can get him seen on Monday or Tuesday to plan how to proceed from here and for how long.

[NeylasMom]

that the Gabapentin works. I know how tough this is. I hope you're able to get some good pain relief through the holiday weekend.

[Charlies_Dad]

that the Gabapentin works. I know how tough this is. I hope you're able to get some good pain relief through the holiday weekend.

 

 

Ditto. I hope you are able to get Toby some pain relief and I know it is very hard to manage. That was why we went the amp route because both myself and DW panic when it comes to our pups.

[Guest falconschild]

If the osteo had presented "normally" in one of Toby's leg bones, I think he'd have been a good candidate for amputation. But since it showed up in his pelvis, we didn't have that route open to us. I'm desperately hoping the gabapentin works as well...he needs to rest, we need to rest, and it breaks my heart to know he's unhappy because he's likely not comfortable and is expressing it the only way he knows how.

 

I get frustrated and furious in the wee hours of the morning when he's keeping me awake, usually momentarily at him. But then I remember that it's the cancer I'm mad at really and not my boy, because he wouldn't be behaving like that under normal circumstances, and I try to be more patient.

[joejoesmom]

If the osteo had presented "normally" in one of Toby's leg bones, I think he'd have been a good candidate for amputation. But since it showed up in his pelvis, we didn't have that route open to us. I'm desperately hoping the gabapentin works as well...he needs to rest, we need to rest, and it breaks my heart to know he's unhappy because he's likely not comfortable and is expressing it the only way he knows how.

 

I get frustrated and furious in the wee hours of the morning when he's keeping me awake, usually momentarily at him. But then I remember that it's the cancer I'm mad at really and not my boy, because he wouldn't be behaving like that under normal circumstances, and I try to be more patient.

I totally understand the getting frustrated and angry. I'm glad you realize that it is the cancer and that these feelings are normal under the circumstances.

 

You mention that Toby stepped down "funny". Is there any chance he could have broken a bone where the cancer is? I would think that since the cancer is in his pelvis he wouldn't be able to put any weight at all on that leg if the pelvis broke. As you probably know, cancer-riddled bone is very easy to fracture. If this is at all a possibility, please have an x-ray done. If it is broken, the best thing you could do is to end his suffering immediately.

 

You might also want to ask your interim vet for a prescription for a stronger pain killer -- something truly in the opiate family.

 

I am so sorry that Toby is in such pain.

 

Jane

[Guest falconschild]

I don't think he's broken his pelvis - not yet. We're watching him like a hawk and carrying him up and down stairs to stave off a pathologic fracture as long as we can. Getting up on the bed and the futon is also verboten (which I think frustrates him a bit). He also doesn't seem to have complained at that volume further than the one "Ow, that hurt!" exclamation when he did it. And my boy is so not stoic by any stretch of the imagination. I can't imagine he'd not have kept complaining loudly if he had fractured the bone. I'm hoping that he'll respond to the gabapentin and get some much-needed rest and relaxation. If and when a bone does break - we have no hesitation as to what we should do then. We're just trying to prevent that if at all possible.

[tra708]

hugs to everybody who has to post on this topic. although my current dogs are okay now, i know what that cancer diagnosis feels like, having been through it with Abby exactly 2 years ago. All I can say is, we are all here for you and understand.

[Guest ChasesMum]

poor Toby... lots of warm thoughts to you and hubby this weekend! Hopefully you can get on top of the pain. i know how terrible fast progression is...With George, had we not amp'd we would have had very little time. He went from just starting to limp to maxxed out on a Fentanyl patch and codeine within 2 weeks, and the vet STILL cleared his xrays. Osteo was hiding right in the shoulder joint and was very painful.

 

Chase too was fast, a total of 5 weeks? but was just over a week from when i was told "gee i think she is in right sided heart failure" to her last day. she wasnt osteo but still cancer, and this group was so helpful. i know i would have been a mess without them!

 

:

 

happy 2011 everyone...

[Guest falconschild]

Well...it looks like the gabapentin is helping. Now if we can just get through the rest of the holiday weekend, it'll be great.

[Charlies_Dad]

Well...it looks like the gabapentin is helping. Now if we can just get through the rest of the holiday weekend, it'll be great.

 

 

That is some good news. It's surprising how well it works and most pups tolerate well. I hope Toby is okay today.

[NeylasMom]

Glad the Gabapentin is helping.

 

Well I wasn't very excited at the thought of bringing in a new year that wouldn't include Neyla, but I managed to have some fun with friends last night. This morning I had dreams about Neyla. I've been having them since I got home. I'm still doing okay, but I miss her more and more with each passing day. I still haven't even thought about getting her ashes back. I think that just seems too final. I guess I will know when it's time to have her home.

 

I hope everyone else and their pups are doing well. Wishing everyone a cancer free 2011, that's for sure.

 

Shannon, when does Elly come home?

[Guest azlorenz]

Elly Beans arrived yesterday morning. What an absolute joy she has been. She has fit right in....figured out the dog doors, is a good eater, found the bed, sofa and dog beds. She slept in bed with all of us last night. Our neighbors set off some fireworks at midnight and that startled her(and us) but we turned on the TV loud enough to drown it out and she went right back to sleep. She's a dream and we love her.

 

I am so glad the gabapentin is helping Toby. It is a wonderful drug for greyhounds who don't tolerate high doses of Tramadol.

 

Jen, many hugs. All I have to do is look at Flash's urn and I bust into tears. They sit in my office beside my computer with the others I've lost. I miss him so but Elly has definitely brought some joy into our lives.