Sherman Has Cancer.

[Guest Shermanator]

Over the past 2 weeks, I noticed something wasn’t right with Sherman. He started panting all the time. He was eating, drinking, playing a little, and even going for walks, but panting all the time. (And it wasn’t heat, since he would do it all the time, morning, afternoon and evening.)

 

I starting noticing a little limping on a walk, I thought he pulled a muscle. I rested him for 2 days, and took a walk with him. He was excited for the walk, but I noticed the limp had returned, and it was pretty pronounced.

 

I took him to our vet on Saturday. He wasn’t in, (he was on vacation,) so I saw the vet who was filling in for him. His right foot was swollen, and they felt different. X-rays showed a large black/grey spot on his front ankle. The vet on Saturday couldn’t deny or confirm it was cancer, but when I spoke to our normal vet he confirmed it was a tumor.

 

We are turning to palliative care for him. We want to do what is best for Sherman, not for us. (Although we are devastated, and want him to be with us for many more years.) We want him free of pain, and distress.

 

He is still panting all the time. When he is laying down, he settles, but when he is up, after walking around a little, the panting begins. We have tramadol, but I can’t tell if its helping. We gave him 100mg last night, and he seemed ok, but I do not want to drug him heavily for the rest of his life, and make him zombie dog. He is still eating (his eggs, yogurt and a little kibble,) and drinking up a storm.

 

I do not know how to manage his pain. He’s not crying, and is still walking (with a little limp) on the bad leg. But the panting, clearly shows distress. When do I know enough is enough? This is so hard.

 

My biggest worry is that I am not managing his pain, and not doing right by Sherman. I do not know how to get a handle on his consistent panting, I know he is in distress.

 

Thanks.

Kelly

[GreyTzu]

I am very sorry you and your family are facing this with Sherman.

 

I believe you can give tramadol every 8 hours. I would contact the Vet and ask about Deramax or one of the stronger pain meds. I have never had an dog with osteo, but I know it is very painful.

[Batmom]

My heart goes out to you.

 

Re pain control, talk to your vet, but you can probably dose at 150mg tramadol every 6 hours and add an anti-inflammatory such as Rimadyl/Deramaxx as well.

 

Sending hugs for yourself and gentle scritchies for your sweet boy.

[TheFullHouse]

I'm so very sorry to hear this news. It's such a personal decision as to when enough is enough. You might ask your vet for a stronger drug or combination of drugs to bring some comfort to Sherman. Somehow, I think in our hearts, we truly know when the time has come.

[ZoomDoggy]

I have heard that panting can be a side effect of Tramadol in some dogs. Which of course makes it hard to tell if the panting might also be indicating discomfort. Ask your vet about that possibility... it might help ease your mind a little.

 

I'm very sorry to hear the diagnosis.

[Guest Swifthounds]

To your family and Sherman.

 

Regarding the pain, I would talk to your vet about what medications you can use in conjunction with what you're using and what the maximum dosing amount/schedule is with each. Tramadol is very good at moderate pain, but bone cancer is very painful, so you'll want to go liberally with the medication. Although there are other reasons amputations are done in the case of bone cancers (if it's localized in the leg and hasn't metastacisize it may buy time), the big reason is that removing the leg with the cancer removes a source of pain. I would talk to the vet about what you can do as far as pain meds. I haven't used the fentanyl patch, but I know some people who have had success with it.

 

And again.

[gazehund]

You have gotten good advice already. I am sorry to hear this diagnosis for Sherman. Many of us have been down this road. Hugs to you and your boy.

[Guest greyt2love]

I can't help you with your question. I've been fortunate that none of my losses have been to cancer. I just wanted to say I'm so sorry Sherman and you have to deal with this. I think you do know, will know, when it is time for Sherman to go. Hopefully, you and your vet will find a pain protocol that will allow you a good amount of time yet with Sherman . Hugs to both of you !

[Guest Samantha]

Im so sorry to hear this xxxx

[GreyPoopon]

I'm so very sorry.

 

It can be hard to tell whether the panting is due to pain or the medications, but since you've just started the Tramadol, odds are it's pain. With my OS puppers, we used an NSAID (Metacam) once per day (standard dosage) and Tramadol 3X/day (increasing the dosage as needed). Depending on his tolerance, you might be able to give him a lot more medicine before he seems drugged.

[Guest Paige12]

I am so sorry for your boy's cancer. We have a senior right now who is on palliative care He has degenerative disc disease that is causing him quite a bit of pain. We give 1 1/2 dose of tramadol 3 times a day (50 mg) and a also pred twice a day. We also have diazepam which is basically valium, that I have had to give him twice because he was panting so much and couldn't settle down. We know that the pred can cause that also, but we think we are managing that part of it. We also have methocaram which is a muscle relaxer and he seems to tolerate it very well. I know we are within days of making that decision with him, but I don't feel we are there yet. He is sleeping peacefully right now on a bed next to the kitchen table. I know you will do the best for your boy. Big hugs to you both. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

[racindog]

I pray for the Good Shepherd to strengthen Sherman and your family. What has helped me the most in these kind of situations is to talk to the dog and ask them what they want. How do they feel etc. If you don't feel comfortable doing that there are many good animal communicators that can help. I use Latifa Meena www.animalscantalk.com I was always relived to know that I wasn't going against whatever their wishes were or allowing too much pain etc. God bless all of you.

[Guest Shermanator]

God, this hurts. All these pain medications, all this pain, I cannot handle it for him.

He is still eating, drinking, and took a very short walkie this morning. (I couldn't help myself, he got excited when he saw me put my sneakers on for a walk.) Only a very short walk. I did not want to aggravate his pain.

Is it worth it to keep Sherman alive and manage this very painful disease? Is it worth it to keep him alive in constant discomfort, or let him go before it starts to get worse. Is it worth it to keep medicating him, so we can keep him longer? I want to remember my happy, pain-free Sherman, and I do not want him in pain.

He woke me up several times panting last night. The vet said the panting is from pain. He said if his wrist starts to swell, there is really nothing we can do about it, just cold compresses. God, I do not know what to do, I don't want to let him go, if he is still eating, and drinking, and a little bit of enjoyment from bones. But, I do not want to see him suddenly decline, and not be prepared to let him go. Is that selfish? Is that wrong? When we have to let him go, I want to take a little time off, and work from home several days to keep an eye on Patton. I feel like I need to be prepared for this. I do not want to kill my dog, the grey love of my life, but I want him to be happy, and not make the last weeks of his life painful, and not has happy as active as they are now. I want peace for him, DH and I, and Patton (his brother.) In my entire life I have never had to lose a pet, so I have no idea how to handle this.

[Burpdog]

The three I lost from cancer, by the time they were ready, they were on 100mg of tramadol every 4 hours. They handled it well. Ivey was also on pred, and Mahogany on morphine.

 

Did you have the xrays read by a radiologist? Have you tested him for Valley Fever?

 

Sending prayers!

 

 

[Guest fandogs]

First of all, I am so sorry about Sherman's diagnosis... It's the cruelest cut of all.

 

Regarding "knowing" when the time has come, my best friend suggested (when my heart dog, Rhoda had kidney failure) that when she starts to "look inward" as opposed to out.. that will be the time. This too, had me worried, that I wouldn't recognize that look. Well, it was so obvious when it finally happened, I never forgot her words.

 

Rhoda had been a very happy dog. Every photo I had of her, she was smiling.. then, at the end, the smiles stopped, and I took a photo of her which, to me, signaled what I had been waiting for, (though not hoping to really see).

It goes along with "better a day too soon" ideology, which I totally subscribe to.

What you are looking for is a change in his "social" behavior. Not his panting or his reaction to his meds.

Luckily, you have all members of this board for support. They will help, guide and love you and Sherman right till end, and then hug and support you when it's done.

I hope you can get more quality time with him.

Hugs from PA

Maxine

[Guest bigorangedog]

I'm so, so sorry to hear this. As I said in your other thread, we have been through this 5 times in the past year. With 3 of the dogs, we did pain management because they were not candidates for amputation for various reasons. We did leg amputations with Whitey and Apollo.

 

The three that we did not amputate all lived for around 2-3 months from the first limp. Whitey lived 5.5 months after amputation (and was pain-free and very happy until the last week) and Apollo is happily hopping around at 4 months post-amp. (Average life expectancies are: 2-3 months with pain management, 4-6 months with amp alone, 12-18 months with amp and chemo. We did do chemo with Whitey, but in hindsight we suspect he already had metastasis before we started.)

 

If you decide to go the amp route, take a look at the link in my signature and feel free to ask any questions you might have. If you decide to stick with pain management, don't be afraid to try different meds. It may take a few tries to get the combo and dosage correct.

 

Tramadol CAN cause panting and anxiety in some dogs. I could not give it to Tanner or Apollo at all. This can be true of any of the narcotic pain meds. Definitely try Deramaxx or Metacam, Gabapentin, and even putting a DMSO wrap on the leg. I would also start him on Artemisinin as soon as you can. Ask for some Valium if you need it for him.

 

Wishing you peace on your journey through this with Sherman. Let me know if I can help in any way.

[MP_the4pack]

I'm so sorry to hear of the diagnosis. I am a recent victim having just lost Diamond.

 

One thing that my vet told me was that if nothing else, amputation removes the pain. They recover so quickly from it. And I did notice that. Two weeks post op and my Dima was feeling so much better. She had a wonderful 6 months pain free.

 

When the cancer returned in her other leg, I let her go immediately.

 

I'm sorry you're going thru this. Just remember, whatever you do for Sherman, you're doing out of love for him.

[iluvgreys]

Would definitely rule out VF since you live in AZ. With my OS hounds, a combination of tramadol + NSAID (Deramaxx or Rimadyl) worked best for pain control. Only had 6 weeks with each from time of first limp. Dr. Stack in Yuma is an expert on VF. Sending prayers and light to you and your baby boy.

[fsugrad]

I am so very sorry.

We are here for you and Sherman.

[Guest Energy11]

I am very sorry about Sherman!

 

I know what this is like. With Max, who was diagnosed at 11.5, we used Deramaxx and Tramadol, and it DID manage his pain well. He made it almost three months after his diagnosis (*which was very early in the cancer).

 

I knew when it "was time," when he started hopping on three legs, and stopped showing interest in food.

 

With this disease and palliative care, it is a day-by-day thing. You just need to try to take one day at a time, and you will ... "know" when it is "time."

 

Sending you much love, and many prayers! Dee

[Guest KennelMom]

I'm so sorry Be generous with the pain meds, as osteo can be very painful. We used rimadyl and tramadol with our osteo girl before she went to the Brige. We did not want to drug her into a zombie either...that is not consistent with what we consider to be quality life. We said goodbye when we felt we could not control the pain with reasonable amount of pain meds. Your vet will be helpful in helping you determine this...it can be different for every dog. If you need help on how to assess pain level, ask your vet to guide you.

[Guest MyBoys]

I am so very sorry for your Sherman and for that fact that you and your family have to deal with this. Over the years we have said good-by to 8 of our boys, 6 we lost to OS so I do totally understand what you are feeling at this time. All the said advice is very helpful but I believe that you will know when it is time to let go, you are the person that knows your boy best and will do what is best for him. I feel the same as you do as in not wanting them to be in pain and I choose to let them go before it got to that point, I know how difficult that choice is because we love them so very much and they depend on us to do what is best. You know in your heart you will do what is best for Sherman because he needs you to be strong now, I believe dignity and quality of life out weighs quanity. I feel so sad for you and wish nothing but peace for your sweet boy. You and Sherman are in my thoughts and prayers.

Edited June 15, 2010 by MyBoys

[Guest Greytluv]

I'm so sorry to hear about Sherman.

 

One of my friend's grey had a tumor in his wrist and they amputated. It's been two years and he's one happy dog

 

I'd still send the xrays to Dr. Couto and ask his opinion.

[Guest boondog]

I'm so sorry. My heart breaks for you.

[VinnieAndRexsMom]

I am so sorry to read Sherman's diagnosis. I would do the same if her were mine. We have used pain med combinations before with Vinnie and were going to do the same for Red. We've not dealt with osteo though. As long as he is enjoying his life and is a happy, hungry boy, I would continue as you are now.

Sending hugs,