Slip Lead for Walking?

[Samoeba]

Hey all. I have a new greyhound. Been with me for just over a month now. She often stops during walks. I went to get help from the local trainers and they gave me a slip lead instead of her double lead/harness/martingale collar. It did work for a while. But now she's started freezing again. And I was wondering if maybe she doesn't like the slip lead anymore? Once when we were at the vet she was trying to pull away and she started biting it. Is it because it's hurting her? I'm not doing anything different than what I did at the beginning. Does anyone else have concerns with using a slip lead for stopping dogs or is this normal?

[DocsDoctor]

To be honest, I wouldn't use one for walking - would be worried that the dog could back out of it, and definitely going back to the harness and martingale.

Are they even meant for taking a dog out for an on-leash walk?  I would say they are intended for use only when you are expecting to release the dog quickly to run free, further down the line - e.g. a pet in the park, a gun dog in the field, or a coursing greyhound. Oh, or for dogs in the show ring, by convention (and all too often to yank their heads up, alas).

They *are* used in greyhound kennels in the UK, so she will probably have been familiar with them already - but just for short-term use while being moved around within the premises, turned out in the paddocks, grooming, etc. I have one here which I acquired on the recommendation of my rescue, for encouraging Tiger out of his bed if need be. (He came to me with a tendency to guard that, which he is thankfully just about over!)

[Samoeba]

But with the harness and martingale she completely stops and I have trouble getting her to move again because she ignores treats when outside. The slip lead works most of the time for at so far. I’m just worried it might be uncomfortable or hurting her without me knowing 

[macoduck]

Samoeba, I agree with everything DocsDoctor said. If you use a slip lead you're liable to lose your dog too easily.

Searching this Training and Behavior forum with "statue" pulls up many previous posts. You may find them to be helpful.

https://forum.greytalk.com/search/?q=statues&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=12

[JenniferS]

I would not use just a slip lead - too easy for them to get loose that way. At least keep another leash/harness/martingale on as a back up. 

[Time4ANap]

The freezing  likely has nothing to do with the martingale which is the only safe collar for walking a greyhound. I personally would trash the slip lead so that no one could accidentally use it and injure your dog. 

We've had our share of dogs who froze during walks including Brood Mama Petunia who quickly figured out that when she decided a walk was over, I would call home and the car would come and get her (not that she was spoiled.) I'm pretty sure that Petunia had some minor pain that escalated on walks, and when she was done, she was done. Her freezing bacame known here as The Petunia Pause. 

Rocket, on the other hand, would freeze when he realized that we were heading for home. Anything to prolong the walk was his favorite thing to try. 

I would let him stand there for a bit, and then turn around as if I were going to walk the other way. He would normally follow. Once he started walking I would do another 180 and continue walking without slowing down or breaking stride. 99% of the time that worked just fine and he would continue on. Basically you just walk in a circle with the lead as close to you as possible so that you have control. Once you've broken their concentration by circling a time or two,  they will almost always follow you and keep walking. 

Be sure to check your dog's paw pads to make sure that the walking surface isn't causing an issue or making their pads rough. Also keep an eye on the pads to check for corns. A corn can be present before it appears through the pad, and cause them some pain, so you want to keep ahead of that. It will feel like a hard bump through the pad. We always used Burt's Bees hand cream on the pads of our dogs that had corns. It worked well to keep the pads soft. Good luck. 

Edited January 5 by Time4ANap
typo

[cleptogrey]

https://www.mendotapet.com/collections/shop-all-products?filter.p.product_type=Leashes&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA7t6sBhAiEiwAsaieYoapy4RLoanW5S7rNqPpMYLOPQHOVSW7a6y6wKpK3ZFSfT582y0oURoCgGoQAvD_BwE

is this they type of slip lead that your local trainer provided? i believe so. the following has the same name but is used for lure coursing or fast cat, for a fast release   https://www.etsy.com/listing/1228145915/fast-cat-quick-release-lead-stunning?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_b-pet_supplies-pet_collars_and_leashes-pet_collars_and_jewelry&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAiA7t6sBhAiEiwAsaieYvkJUwQRtBS_xn3S6pR8SYkmw8zbu8SZ1AowAn8djwTUvI3n3HQ2ThoCKbgQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_12570713415_119931960216_507344322411_aud-1118323511438:pla-328317179678_c__1228145915_409848992&utm_custom2=12570713415&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA7t6sBhAiEiwAsaieYvkJUwQRtBS_xn3S6pR8SYkmw8zbu8SZ1AowAn8djwTUvI3n3HQ2ThoCKbgQAvD_BwE

 

the first one listed is also know as a kennel lead, english slip lead and are quite safe if used properly. the stop- leather or bead needs to be tightened so the leash is right at the very tippy top of the neck.  the danger with it is not having it in the correction position w/ the correct tension. when you know your dog it can be loosened a bit. i use them quite often and have one in my car for emergencies at all times. the width of the lead is very easy to handle and control, that might be why it was recommended. better than is are the following:https://www.fuzzywumpets.com/collections/martingale-walking-leads orhttps://www.etsy.com/listing/293175113/all-in-one-martingaleleash-combo-3?click_key=74406d7adce802a1d8bbf380eabf704c6ad51ead%3A293175113&click_sum=127c69c1&ref=shop_home_active_11&sts=1

 

all of the leads come off when the dog is in the house. so, a tag collar is essential.

stopping on walks is not a result of the type of lead. it can be fear, it can be your dog is picking up YOUR fear or UNCERTAINTY. training classes help, so participate. if the trainer wants you to use a kennel lead, do so in class. basically the martingale is great for safety but there is absolutely no signal given to the dog, such as "let's go!" which is what you want. once you pick up skills and you and your dog communicate then revisit what you will use. but for training, it might be your answer. i've worked with my dogs since the early 70s in numerous training situations and have watched what has come into and out of fashion. PETA is breathing down too many necks and everyone is fearful of a correction. i'm not saying that this is the answer. each dog is different. currently my 3 year old whippet responds best to this for training- it's a limited slip collar similar to a martingale. i'm liking limited slip collars much more and this one comes off nice and easy. amazon sells it as well. with a traditional martingale there was no response from my current dog in training. safe, just use a 3/8" or 1/2" leather leash which handles well    https://store.ezydog.com/checkmate-collar/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA7t6sBhAiEiwAsaieYqlPetWGff3rakRQca8Cer9o07RLGbK0Cj0FyH4vqLsdzYkaagrEshoC2t8QAvD_BwE

i hope this identified the term for "slip lead" and maybe will help you find something not too cumbersome which will work for you. we all purchase way too many leads and collars until we find the right one that works. it's like finding a good style and brand sneaker.

[greysmom]

Huh.  I wrote this yesterday but it never posted.  Here you go.

 

It's more than likely the freezing on walks has nothing whatsoever to do with the type of collar she's wearing.

For newly adopted greyhounds, freezing is their way of saying they are overloaded at the moment.  Most greyhounds are not accustomed to the normal city/suburb environment with sidewalks and cars and loud noises and strange people walking around.  It's a completely new and scary place for them, on top of having a completely new and possibly scary living situation.  Freezing is an anxiety and fear response and NOT a "stubborn dog" being naughty.  Usually, if you let them be for a few minutes they will decide they're ok and will be able to start walking again.  Don's strategy of walking and turning will also work, along with walking at less busy times of the day.

I would go back to her original equipment, but really evaluate if it's too heavy, or makes a lot of jangly noise, when she's walking.  Change it out for thinner leashes, a padded harness, use tag bags or scraps of fabric to quiet noisy chains and tags, and make sure the harness fits properly so it's tight enough without pinching her anywhere (armpits especially).  She's also probably not used to having a harness on with the extra weight and pressure on different parts of her body.  I know they can be a valuable safety tool, so you may want to have her get used to wearing one by having it on her when you're just hanging out around the house (never leave a dog unsupervised in a harness).

A slip lead can be a proper tool for other breeds of dogs, but not so much for greyhounds with their skinny heads, which allows the greyhound to back out of it too easily.  Slip leads can get too loose during regular walking unless you keep tension on them all the time, which can be dangerous and uncomfortable for the dog.  A properly fitted martingale collar fulfills the same purpose without getting too loose during normal walking.  

Most of all just be patient with her.  Remember the rule of 3 - 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months.  Those are general time frames for how new dogs settle into a new living situation.  Your individual dog will have her own timeline, but she still needs time and patience to figure everything out.

Good luck!

[cleptogrey]

greysmom, excellent explanation! 

responding to your post it sounds like a 1" martingale, closest to the 1" buckle kennel collars and a lighter lead will feel most familiar to the hound. harnesses can be quite difficult to get used to. one of my current dogs will not move w/ a harness on- point blank and she is bomb proof.

 

[greysmom]

Yes, if it wasn't clear, buckle collars are not secure on greyhounds for much the same reasons.  To make it tight enough to be secure it has to be really too tight. 

Go to Etsy, or your favorite online shopping spot, and do a search for "martingale collars," or "greyhound collars."  There are tons of vendors to choose from.  I prefer 1 1/2 inch wide collars for my average size greyhounds. 

[cleptogrey]

8 hours ago, greysmom said:

Yes, if it wasn't clear, buckle collars are not secure on greyhounds for much the same reasons.  To make it tight enough to be secure it has to be really too tight. 

i mentioned 1" martingale since it's the closest to what they wore at the track, so it will seem familiar . i didn't say use a 1" buckle.

Edited January 7 by cleptogrey

[greysmom]

3 hours ago, cleptogrey said:

i mentioned 1" martingale since it's the closest to what they wore at the track, so it will seem familiar . i didn't say use a 1" buckle.

Not saying you did, your post just brought it to mind.  

[Samoeba]

Hey all! Thanks for the great advice! Just an update. I’m using the harness now along with the slip lead. I also have a new martingale collar in the mail soon. She freezes a bit more, but not so long. I do have another question though. When it comes to the martingale collar, what is the proper position for it? Right behind the ears, at the bottom of the neck, somewhere else?

[macoduck]

I wrote this for our group and should be of help.

  https://greyhoundfriends.com/wp-content/documents/New-Owner-Guidebook.pdf

 

[Mercsmom]

On 1/12/2024 at 7:39 AM, macoduck said:

I wrote this for our group and should be of help.

  https://greyhoundfriends.com/wp-content/documents/New-Owner-Guidebook.pdf

 

This is invaluable.

Samoeba, I had to get used to the idea that the ears need to fold forward to remove the martingale.  Also, when it's on, the two D rings never touch.  That's a sign it's too big.

[Apollo_the_Grey]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:32 AM, Samoeba said:

But with the harness and martingale she completely stops and I have trouble getting her to move again because she ignores treats when outside. The slip lead works most of the time for at so far. I’m just worried it might be uncomfortable or hurting her without me knowing 

For how long does she freeze?  

I'm still a new greyhound owner (a little over 2 years with Apollo now) and every now and then he freezes on a walk.  (He actually sat down once, and just kept sitting there for about 5 minutes.) He'll stand still and listen or sniff or look.  At first it was about every 10 steps.  I had to realize that the little things I take for granted and filter out, are completely new and unusual and maybe alarming to him.  A car driving by, a plane, a bark in the distance, a car door slamming, people out for a run, the smell of bacon or an fireplace fire.    If she's only freezing for a moment or two, then speak gently to her and slowly coax her to move on.  The first walks should be short, and I wouldn't go more than a block or so from the house.  Basically down to the corner and back.  Once she masters that, maybe add another block.

A month is right around the time she's starting to understand that her old life is gone.  She's going to need time, and patience to adjust.

As for the collars: you could use the slip lead but I wouldn't recommend it.  Here's why:  A slip lead can choke or harm her trachea, but most importantly it can cause pain and constriction.  She will begin to equate going on walks with pain and and constriction.  This isn't a way to foster a love of walks, but rather a way of fostering a love of staying inside, where she isn't choked or corrected for just standing.

If you can be patient, and wait for her to unfreeze it will be better for the both of you.  Always be positive and encourage her to come along.  Reward her with pats or chin scritches when she complies outside.