Biting Issues with Newly-Adopted Grey — What to Do?

[TheDogFather]

Hello everyone,

 

My girlfriend and I adopted a 2yo retired racing grey just over 3 months ago (our first dog together and our first greyhound). She is a very lovable girl and is incredibly sweet. We love her dearly and she has brought so much joy to our lives over these past few months.
 

However, she has a bit of a biting problem and has bitten humans on two occasions. The first instance occurred after we had had her for only a few weeks. My girlfriend and a friend were sitting on our couch (which we had stupidly allowed our grey to go on) and our grey bit the friend, drawing blood and leaving bruises. My girlfriend and I chalked this up to space aggression and her still being very new to life as a retired racer. Since that first incident, we have never let her up onto any of the furniture. 
The second instance occurred yesterday (Thanksgiving). My girlfriend‘s aunt (a very dog-savvy person) called our grey over to her, and the dog came. The aunt then knelt over the dog and proceeded to pet her when BAM — without warning, she got bit which, like the first instance, drew blood and left bruises. To make matters worse, later that night when we had muzzled our grey, the aunt (presumably looking to put the whole situation past her) went over to pet the dog (who was standing next to my girlfriend and I). Our grey then reared up onto her hind legs and appeared to nip at the aunt’s face. I’m still not entirely sure that she actually intended any harm, but in light of the biting incident which occurred several hours prior, my best guess is that she was in fact trying to nip. 
 

My girlfriend and I are at a crossroads. Option A is to get in touch with a behaviorist and try to work things out with our grey. However, we would likely never be able to take the dog to family functions again, since everyone who was at yesterday’s Thanksgiving dinner are aware of the biting incident and are now afraid of our grey. This is not an insignificant consideration, since we visit our families monthly.

Option B is to return her, before she accrues an even worse bite record, to the adoption organization, which would try to rehome her. I think our grey’s prospects for rehoming are good — she is a very beautiful dog, with a (generally) great temperament, and she is still quite young. We feel that there very well could be a better home out there for her, with an owner who has the knowledge and experience to work through her biting issues. 
 

Regardless of which option we choose to pursue, my girlfriend and I are distraught. We love this dog and our little “fur family.” Neither of us could sleep last night and we are both very, very sad. While we do not want to return her to the adoption organization, we know that it may be the best choice for both of us and for our grey. 
 

Any advice is greatly appreciated — thank you. 

[MP_the4pack]

Personally I would try a behaviorist because you could always rehome her if you don't make progress.  

Can you get her used to being in her own room when guests come over?

[Notnat1]

Damn, sorry to hear this. I won't pretend to be an expert but I have done a lot of reading over the last 6 months so thought I would add my 10 pence worth.

Usually a dog will give warnings before actually lashing out, and then its usually just a show of teeth or a lash out but not usually a full bite! I think you are in crisis with this Grey at the moment. I think your Grey believes they are in charge in your pack and is willing to defend that position forcefully.

You need professional help, no two ways about it. I may not have a popular opinion here but I would also be getting physical with them after a nip, a sure smack on the nose and big body language and loud voice will usually be enough for a Grey to get the idea. It has to be immediate though. Greyhounds are sensitive and usually a stern NO will see them cower right away.

Also may there be something medically going on with your Grey? for example is it when you touch their tail or spook them. Greyhounds shouldn't be startled out of sleep, this can cause them to lash out... its a kennel thing apparantly ? Just things worth considering. But I would definitely go down the behaviourist route at this point. 

Best wishes

N 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Notnat1
something to add

[1Moregrey]

There is a reason young greyhounds are called land 🦈.  A 2 yr old is really a baby/toddler in a full size body.  A behaviorist could really help you out IF you are willing to put in the work and follow some well defined .

Greyhounds are puppies until they are 2.5-3 years old.  All that cute puppy behavior stops being cute around 20-25 lbs. when simple play turns into damaging / may require medical treatment.  So what you have brought home is an overgrown puppy in a full size dog body with a puppy brain into a whole new world with things they have never seen before.
If the behavior was done by a golden retriever between 4-6 months of age trying to initiate play in a not appropriate way would be no big deal.  But done by a 50-65lb dog with full bite capabilities and a height of 25-30 inches and 3 feet long.  People react differently and it is a different story when done by an adult looking dog/child big for there age.

If you do not think the family would ever get over these episodes and accept her back to visit after working with the behaviorist then by all means take her back and look at getting an older out of the puppy stage greyhound. Or if you are now uneasy around her due to this behavior.

Please take a good look at what you have and what you are willing to do.  Then you can make an informed decision for all involved.  
 

Best wishes

 

[greysmom]

Yeah.  No.  To this.  ^^^  "Getting physical" with a greyhound, or any dog, is never the solution.  The only thing they learn is to fear you.

As to the rest, it really depends on how much time and energy you're willing to commit to helping your girl work through these issues.  

I'll say some things, with the disclaimer that no one here saw the incidents, so I'm just going off your descriptions.  Diagnosing behavior issues on the internet is difficult.

First off, understand that all these actions are very common.  She's not being aggressive or extremely fearful.  She's a puppy, having untrained puppy reactions to too much stimulation.  At two years old, your dog is still a puppy in an adult dog suit.  She has an adult's size and muscle, but her brain hasn't caught up to her physical maturity.  Biting and pushing and wrestling are how greyhound puppies usually play together - it can get loud and dangerous and scary when a group of them are really playing.  Most of the little nicks and scars you see on retired greyhounds don't come from track or training scrapes, but from puppy play back home on the farms.  They can also still be going through "fear stages," which are a normal part of puppy development where they can become anxious or scared by things/actions they've been completely fine with previously.  These usually last a few weeks and then they move on to a more normal reaction.  A greyhound will continue to develop into their adult personality until they are three or four years old.

What to do now?  Use all of that to your advantage.  Yes.  Contact a certified animal behaviorist in your area who is familiar with greyhounds - your adoption group should have some recommendations for you.  Make *sure* they only use positive reinforcement techniques, and run away fast if they ever mention shock collars or punishments as part of their "training."  They may suggest anxiety medications, but really talk with them about their necessity.  Sometimes meds are called for and sometimes not.  Since I didn't see what happened and can't see your dog, *I* don't know, but someone there watching your dog might have a better perspective.

See about getting her into a training class, public or private, to really use that plastic, young brain to your advantage.  She's ripe for learning new behaviors, and definitely needs to learn some self control.  Training can also benefit you all bonding together.  Your group, again, will hopefully have some resources for you about good trainers in your area.  Again, positive reinforcement training techniques only.

It might be better if you find alternatives for your dog rather than attending your monthly family gatherings - doggy daycare or staying with a greyhound friend, say - until you have a better handle on these incidents.  If you do need to take her, keep her on leash and by your side so you have better control over her interactions.  Don't allow people to stand over her, hug her closely, or get her too excited.  She's not a Lab or a Golden that will put up with a lot of things from people with no reaction - just generally as a breed greyhounds are more contained and reserved.  This goes double and triple if there are any kids at these family get-togethers.

If people come over to your house, it will be best if she's kept away from the main gathering - in a quiet back bedroom, or baby-gated away from people.  If you use a crate with her, that's a great place to give her some time outs so she can decompress.  Use the leash again to help you keep in better contact with her.

And if all this sounds like a lot, definitely contact your group and discuss returning her.  There's no shame in that, and everyone involved should want what's best for the dog.

Good luck!

[Time4ANap]

1 hour ago, greysmom said:

Yeah.  No.  To this.  ^^^  "Getting physical" with a greyhound, or any dog, is never the solution.  The only thing they learn is to fear you.

As to the rest, it really depends on how much time and energy you're willing to commit to helping your girl work through these issues.  

I'll say some things, with the disclaimer that no one here saw the incidents, so I'm just going off your descriptions.  Diagnosing behavior issues on the internet is difficult.

First off, understand that all these actions are very common.  She's not being aggressive or extremely fearful.  She's a puppy, having untrained puppy reactions to too much stimulation.  At two years old, your dog is still a puppy in an adult dog suit.  She has an adult's size and muscle, but her brain hasn't caught up to her physical maturity.  Biting and pushing and wrestling are how greyhound puppies usually play together - it can get loud and dangerous and scary when a group of them are really playing.  Most of the little nicks and scars you see on retired greyhounds don't come from track or training scrapes, but from puppy play back home on the farms.  They can also still be going through "fear stages," which are a normal part of puppy development where they can become anxious or scared by things/actions they've been completely fine with previously.  These usually last a few weeks and then they move on to a more normal reaction.  A greyhound will continue to develop into their adult personality until they are three or four years old.

What to do now?  Use all of that to your advantage.  Yes.  Contact a certified animal behaviorist in your area who is familiar with greyhounds - your adoption group should have some recommendations for you.  Make *sure* they only use positive reinforcement techniques, and run away fast if they ever mention shock collars or punishments as part of their "training."  They may suggest anxiety medications, but really talk with them about their necessity.  Sometimes meds are called for and sometimes not.  Since I didn't see what happened and can't see your dog, *I* don't know, but someone there watching your dog might have a better perspective.

See about getting her into a training class, public or private, to really use that plastic, young brain to your advantage.  She's ripe for learning new behaviors, and definitely needs to learn some self control.  Training can also benefit you all bonding together.  Your group, again, will hopefully have some resources for you about good trainers in your area.  Again, positive reinforcement training techniques only.

It might be better if you find alternatives for your dog rather than attending your monthly family gatherings - doggy daycare or staying with a greyhound friend, say - until you have a better handle on these incidents.  If you do need to take her, keep her on leash and by your side so you have better control over her interactions.  Don't allow people to stand over her, hug her closely, or get her too excited.  She's not a Lab or a Golden that will put up with a lot of things from people with no reaction - just generally as a breed greyhounds are more contained and reserved.  This goes double and triple if there are any kids at these family get-togethers.

If people come over to your house, it will be best if she's kept away from the main gathering - in a quiet back bedroom, or baby-gated away from people.  If you use a crate with her, that's a great place to give her some time outs so she can decompress.  Use the leash again to help you keep in better contact with her.

And if all this sounds like a lot, definitely contact your group and discuss returning her.  There's no shame in that, and everyone involved should want what's best for the dog.

Good luck!

Just as a follow up - Greysmom has been there, done that with all of these issues over the years. Her advice is solid. 

We also had a boy with space issues and had to deal with several bite incidents over the years. I will say that in each of our bite incidents, the human involved (including me) did something careless or that they knew not to do because of the space issues. All were minor reactive incidents, but the dog bit as a reaction to what the human did. That didn't make it right, but our boy with the space issues was the sweetest boy in the world 99.9% of the time and we did learn how to deal with those quirks. I miss that boy every signle day now that he's passed. . 

It takes time to work on these things, but it sounds like you have a great hound there who just needs a little work, lots of cinsistency, and some patience. Good luck! 

[macoduck]

Since you have now had your girl for 3 months, you have just ended the honeymoon phase. She is gaining confidence and pushing boundaries - neither of which is bad.  Nips and bites occur when we humans don't pay attention to the subtle signals given.  Punishing in any form will only serve to push her to giving no warning at all.

Unless there is actually something physically wrong (like pain blindness on an approached side). It would be presumed that just prior to your adoption the bloodwork was done and it was normal. Do not jump in to thyroid medicine as an answer to aggression issues. True thyroid testing must include the full thyroid panel, not just the T4, and again preferably reviewed by a vet with greyhound experience.

I would only use a behaviorist that your adoption group suggests.  Though greyhounds are still "just dogs", I'd rather know I was using one familiar with the breed.

[HeyRunDog]

I agree with the behaviourist/trainer route as a possible solution as it keeps your options open. Also a firm NO as soon as they do or about to misbehave is usually enough to correct them and praise when the stop or don't do it.

For the time being I suggest you put a muzzle on her when you have visitors.

[LBass]

Just a note about finding an animal behaviorist. There were no certified animal behaviorists in my area at all.  However, as a gift from the pandemic, I found a great behaviorist who worked with me via Zoom.  I had my doubts about how well that could work, but it was a great, helpful experience.  In the US there is a certification organization with a website that I could use to locate a behaviorist and I'm sure there is a similar organization in the UK.  

If you and your girlfriend feel up to it, there is every reason to think that you can work successfully with your girl.  I will say that part of that journey may be adjusting expectations a bit to meet her as she is.  This girl may never be a snuggly, cuddly, lovebug but she still may be wonderful part of your family.

If this all just seems like too, too much or if you're getting fearful of her please don't feel guilty for returning her to the adoption group. Also, don't hesitate to try again with another Greyhound.  They've each got their own unique character and personality to bring to the mix and some are harder to manage than others.  Twenty years into Greyhounds, I'm on hound #4 and if he'd been hound #1 for me, I'm not sure I could have handled his particular mix of charm and demanding bossiness.  Cujo Nate has been a real handful.