8 month old greyhound puppy fights harness

[Magdalene]

Hi, all--been awhile, but the latest is that four months ago, I took on a 4-month-old greyhound puppy.  (Feel free to start laughing at my foolishness.)  It's been rough, but we've been making a lot of progress, and some things, I know it's just a case of puppy energy (which doesn't always make it fun to deal with, but at least I know eventually she'll grow out of it.)  

One problem that we're still having off-and-on, however, is putting on her harness.  Half the time she's pretty good about it, the other half of the time, she fights like hell.  I've tried making it fun, offering treats, and it's still 50/50 if she fights me or not.  Once the harness is on, she's fine, and she really enjoys walks.  And I've adjusted the harness to make sure it fits her properly, so I'm at a loss for why half the time she fights me on it.  Any help would be appreciated.

[FiveRoooooers]

Congrats (?) ! Pics please! What is her name?

I might try leaving the harness on her for a while after the walk, and let her wear it around the house and yard, during meals and snacks, perhaps overnight if she sleeps near you so that you can hear if she gets into trouble.

[GreyPoopon]

I agree with FiveRoooooers. Have her wear the harness as much as possible, especially during things she likes (meals, playtime). You might also practice putting it on before those same activities.

And we need details! And pics!

[Magdalene]

OK--I had wondered a while back if I should just leave the harness on, but I wasn't sure if it would be the right thing to do or not.  We just got back from a walk, and I unclipped her leash and left the harness on.  She doesn't seem bothered by it, so we'll see how this goes.

 

Here is a picture of her with Kyria the day she came home, when she was four months old.  I'll upload a more recent picture of her soon.    She was a runt (perfectly healthy, just smaller than her littermates), so the kennel that had her asked my adoption group if somebody would like her.  I figured with Kyria being a retired brood mom (and was always looking for something to mother), and Mia being in need of maternal love, I figured this was a good match.  It hasn't quite worked out the way I'd hoped, but they're working on it.  (Though I'm guessing Mia, who is now eight months, must be in her 'teen years', and Kyria's clearly had enough of her lip.)

 

 

[Magdalene]

A more recent picture of her with Kyria

 

 

[Magdalene]

And a video of her playing with Franklin.  Or rather, she wants to play.  Franklin tends to find her annoying.  Though lately, he's been warming up to the idea, and sometimes initiates play with her.  A lot of times, he just stomps off in annoyance.  Then comes back about ten minutes later.  (I am just the human who lives here.)

 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Magdalene

[greysmom]

With puppies it's all about playing, so are you *sure* she's fighting you and not playing with you when you put the harness on??  If she found it objectionable she wouldn't leave it on without fussing at it or chewing it off.

Best way to get through this phase is to do short (very short) practice sessions with tons of yummy treats.  Break down the steps of putting on the harness and work sequentially through them getting her to be calm and allow you to fit it on her.  First teach her to "stand" - like a showdog, give her a command to accomplish.  Then, "stand" and put one paw in, or whatever is the second step.  Make it short and fun and use whatever treats work best with her to get and keep her attention.

She's a cutie pie!!     And don't worry - the puppy phase only lasts 3 or 4 years!!!   

[MerseyGrey]

She is adorable and looks like testing both your cat and your other dog! Thanks for the pictures!

[Remolacha]

That more recent picture of her and Kyria  it looks like she is doing the typical adolescent “look at me! Pay attention to me! Me me me” and Kyria saying, I’ve done my time, why do I have to deal with this again!

she is a cutie, I am sure she will grow out of it in a couple-three years 

[Magdalene]

6 hours ago, greysmom said:

With puppies it's all about playing, so are you *sure* she's fighting you and not playing with you when you put the harness on??  If she found it objectionable she wouldn't leave it on without fussing at it or chewing it off.

Best way to get through this phase is to do short (very short) practice sessions with tons of yummy treats.  Break down the steps of putting on the harness and work sequentially through them getting her to be calm and allow you to fit it on her.  First teach her to "stand" - like a showdog, give her a command to accomplish.  Then, "stand" and put one paw in, or whatever is the second step.  Make it short and fun and use whatever treats work best with her to get and keep her attention.

She's a cutie pie!!     And don't worry - the puppy phase only lasts 3 or 4 years!!!   

I wish it were playing, but it is definitely fighting me.    She's been wearing it all day today (I gotta say, it feels weird to leave it on her) without a fuss, so it mystifies me that she gets that way about putting it on, but is fine once it is.

The 'standing' is part of how she tries to fight me--she'll wiggle away and go lie down somewhere, because she knows I can't get it on her that way.  (Well, I *can*, but not as easily.)  Or she'll try to nip my hands, or yank the harness away.  

I'll keep trying treats though.  Maybe the positive reinforcement will break through at some point!

[Magdalene]

3 hours ago, Remolacha said:

That more recent picture of her and Kyria  it looks like she is doing the typical adolescent “look at me! Pay attention to me! Me me me” and Kyria saying, I’ve done my time, why do I have to deal with this again!

she is a cutie, I am sure she will grow out of it in a couple-three years 

LOL--had I been two seconds faster with the camera, you would have seen her head tucked under Kyria's 'armpit'. 

[Magdalene]

6 hours ago, MerseyGrey said:

She is adorable and looks like testing both your cat and your other dog! Thanks for the pictures!

She is absolutely convinced that she and Franklin (the cat) are destined to be best buds.  I think her problem is that she doesn't understand he's not a dog.  

She likes to give him baths.  He was way not happy about that at first, but over time, he's come to enjoy that.  But then she wants to play rowdy, and he's all 'nope'.

[greysmom]

16 hours ago, Magdalene said:

I wish it were playing, but it is definitely fighting me.    She's been wearing it all day today (I gotta say, it feels weird to leave it on her) without a fuss, so it mystifies me that she gets that way about putting it on, but is fine once it is.

The 'standing' is part of how she tries to fight me--she'll wiggle away and go lie down somewhere, because she knows I can't get it on her that way.  (Well, I *can*, but not as easily.)  Or she'll try to nip my hands, or yank the harness away.  

I'll keep trying treats though.  Maybe the positive reinforcement will break through at some point!

 

Separate the training from the actual walk time.  Also, it won't hurt her to wear a well fitting harness 24/7 for a while.  Just watch her in case she starts chewing on it, and check under her armpits frequently so it doesn't pinch her.  You may also need to get a different type of harness to break her association with it.

[cleptogrey]

Speaking from experience your pup is starting adolescence. Hold on!!!! Strange things will happen. Regression, goofiness, temporary loss of all knowledge once acquired and their body becomes a foreign object. 

Be patient

Be consistant and remember to laugh.

[Magdalene]

23 hours ago, cleptogrey said:

Speaking from experience your pup is starting adolescence. Hold on!!!! Strange things will happen. Regression, goofiness, temporary loss of all knowledge once acquired and their body becomes a foreign object. 

Be patient

Be consistant and remember to laugh.

That would explain a few things!  She used to be great about settling down to sleep for the night once she was put in her crate, but the past few nights she took to barking her fool head off.  I'm working on breaking her of that.  

Just an update, I've been putting the harness on her when she first gets up, and taking it off after the last walk of the day.  It does seem to be helping.  Hopefully, things will pass once adolescence is done!

I am going to have to remember to laugh.  Unfortunately, both dogs woke me up at 3 this morning, and I couldn't get Mia settled back down til 7, and I admit I was near tears because I was just so exhausted.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Magdalene

[cleptogrey]

never too late

never too early 

to start and continue with obedience classes! felix came to us at 7 weeks, so i'm speaking from experience. we started him in classes at 12 weeks and continued until the $$ well ran dry- 50 sessions! great bonding, great results, great understanding of your dog. we went from obviously basics thru rally-o and agility. when my other gh at the time hated and shut down in classes felix jumped right in and finished that semester as a review class.

just be firm, consistent and make sure you have a case of your favorite wine on hand!

personally i would not use a harness at that age. you are unable to give your pup corrections to mold her into what YOU want. harnesses are great mobility aids(felix wore one for the last 6 months of his life 24/7). at that age i ended up using this https://www.rescopetproducts.com/training-collars

it should be fitted directly under the chin. there is no way they can slip out since the collar is the same size as the neck- no excess hanging. i've used it on my salukis as well- the message gets to the dog in nano seconds. the last thing you want is for your dog to be able to pull you down. at 8 months their energy and strength are multiplying like Hulk's when he goes into action. did i use it for ever- no! we graduated to a regular buckle collar~

[BatterseaBrindl]

2 hours ago, cleptogrey said:

never too late

never too early 

to start and continue with obedience classes! felix came to us at 7 weeks, so i'm speaking from experience. we started him in classes at 12 weeks and continued until the $$ well ran dry- 50 sessions! great bonding, great results, great understanding of your dog. we went from obviously basics thru rally-o and agility. when my other gh at the time hated and shut down in classes felix jumped right in and finished that semester as a review class.

just be firm, consistent and make sure you have a case of your favorite wine on hand!

personally i would not use a harness at that age. you are unable to give your pup corrections to mold her into what YOU want. harnesses are great mobility aids(felix wore one for the last 6 months of his life 24/7). at that age i ended up using this https://www.rescopetproducts.com/training-collars

it should be fitted directly under the chin. there is no way they can slip out since the collar is the same size as the neck- no excess hanging. i've used it on my salukis as well- the message gets to the dog in nano seconds. the last thing you want is for your dog to be able to pull you down. at 8 months their energy and strength are multiplying like Hulk's when he goes into action. did i use it for ever- no! we graduated to a regular buckle collar~

 

Not disputing that these collars have a place in training, but I have seen dogs escape from them.  Most likely inattention  from the handler.    As well, there is a right and wrong  way to put them on, which is not shown in this ad.

I agree that a harness is pretty useless as a training device and that by 4 months of age the dog should be more than ready to be walked in a collar, perhaps with the harness and a second leash as a backup if you're worried about escape.  

Now at 8 months old, this dog is nearly at her adult size and   'should be'   be walking nicely on a collar, but if the owner feels a harness is working for them  then why not continue?! 

One also needs to consider that some cities (Montreal ! ) have a law that large breed dogs must be walked with a harness. 

[FiveRoooooers]

1 hour ago, BatterseaBrindl said:

 

Not disputing that these collars have a place in training, but I have seen dogs escape from them.  Most likely inattention  from the handler.    As well, there is a right and wrong  way to put them on, which is not shown in this ad.

I agree that a harness is pretty useless as a training device and that by 4 months of age the dog should be more than ready to be walked in a collar, perhaps with the harness and a second leash as a backup if you're worried about escape.  

Now at 8 months old, this dog is nearly at her adult size and   'should be'   be walking nicely on a collar, but if the owner feels a harness is working for them  then why not continue?! 

One also needs to consider that some cities (Montreal ! ) have a law that large breed dogs must be walked with a harness. 

 With the 2Hounds WWW harness you have the option of a double-clip leash - one end attaches to the harness and the other to the collar. They work well for us. 

[cleptogrey]

harnesses are great for dogs who don't pull, hang out with you and are trained and the best for mobility assistance. spook harness are a different story- but we are not talking about a spook right now.

 the whole concept of training comes with a package-  a good teacher in a good school has both the handler and dog/team as a student. in most of the classes and they were small(under 5 people) there was and instructor and assistant help everyone non-stop.  collar fitting- type of collar and how it use it properly is all included in a good school as well as techniques in positive reinforcement. the proper collar is a device is used to save the owner's arm! also in a good school good quality leashes that are the correct width for the animal are offered. it makes a world of difference when a good fitting leash is used. it's not just what is around the neck. a bigger dog needs a 5/8" leather leash. if one is going w/ biothane there are different weights for each width. 

remember a young feisty puppy is very different than the 4 year old racers who have already been thru tons of training! yes, they are schooled very very well and do behave then walked out to their boxes at the track. heeling right next to their handler.

the 2 hounds harness is a good piece of equipment but why does one need a double clip leash if they have a good quality leash and a trained pup? i never was able to understand that. if one is fearful of clip failure there are wonderful italian brass alligator clips that dial closed. K-9NOZ sells them on their biothane leashes(of the right weight and length for your dog). I had one clip failure on the lobster clip- too much hardware on a dog and it sprung open getting caught on all the tags and jewelry. i have leashes with brass clips that have lasted for over 20 years.

and please explain the harness rule in Montreal. thanks- i've visited with my GHs and were not stopped when not using a harness. interesting!

i hope i didn't come off to harsh, but tools do change as a dog matures and learns. one tool for life? yes, that's unconditional love on the owner's part!

 

[BatterseaBrindl]

The OP has only asked about how she can get Mia more comfortable about putting the harness on..... Once the harness is on, she's fine, and she really enjoys walks. 

Perhaps it is her choice to use a harness instead of a collar.   Our Kibo (Galgo) had serious injuries to his neck and spine and could not be walked in a collar of any type for many weeks.

https://montreal.ca/en/topics/obligations-and-responsibilities-pet-owners

"Make sure your dog or pig wears a harness or a halter if he or she weighs 20 kg or more"

[Magdalene]

For those wondering, Mia started off in harnesses because she was a runt, and I couldn't get a martingale collar adjusted small enough to fit her.  I've been debating putting her in a martingale collar now that she's older and bigger, but she can get overexcited at times, and I wasn't sure if the martingale or the harness would be better for her at this point.  She's gotten better behaved on the walks (there was a time walking her was pretty much a full-body workout), so it might be time to make the switch.  I think I'm just nervous she might still not be big enough and slip out of it.  

Now that things are opening up a bit, I am looking for an obedience class for her.  That was actually first on the list when I first brought her home, but literally the day after I brought her home, things like that started shutting down.

[greysmom]

20 hours ago, cleptogrey said:

harnesses are great for dogs who don't pull, hang out with you and are trained and the best for mobility assistance. spook harness are a different story- but we are not talking about a spook right now.

 the whole concept of training comes with a package-  a good teacher in a good school has both the handler and dog/team as a student. in most of the classes and they were small(under 5 people) there was and instructor and assistant help everyone non-stop.  collar fitting- type of collar and how it use it properly is all included in a good school as well as techniques in positive reinforcement. the proper collar is a device is used to save the owner's arm! also in a good school good quality leashes that are the correct width for the animal are offered. it makes a world of difference when a good fitting leash is used. it's not just what is around the neck. a bigger dog needs a 5/8" leather leash. if one is going w/ biothane there are different weights for each width. 

remember a young feisty puppy is very different than the 4 year old racers who have already been thru tons of training! yes, they are schooled very very well and do behave then walked out to their boxes at the track. heeling right next to their handler.

the 2 hounds harness is a good piece of equipment but why does one need a double clip leash if they have a good quality leash and a trained pup? i never was able to understand that. if one is fearful of clip failure there are wonderful italian brass alligator clips that dial closed. K-9NOZ sells them on their biothane leashes(of the right weight and length for your dog). I had one clip failure on the lobster clip- too much hardware on a dog and it sprung open getting caught on all the tags and jewelry. i have leashes with brass clips that have lasted for over 20 years.

and please explain the harness rule in Montreal. thanks- i've visited with my GHs and were not stopped when not using a harness. interesting!

i hope i didn't come off to harsh, but tools do change as a dog matures and learns. one tool for life? yes, that's unconditional love on the owner's part!

 

It's not a question of hardware failure, it's one of security.  I almost always end up using two leashes or some sort of coupler when I put a harness/collar on my greyhounds.  In my experience with multiple dogs through the years (all older retired racers) they become confused and lose whatever training they have walking quietly if they don't have the familiar pressure of a collar around their neck.  They kite all over the place on the end of the leash, statue, pull amazingly hard, go off in their own direction. 

Plus, it *is* added security if you are using just a regular harness, which most greyhounds can easily get out of if they try hard enough.  Nearly all the galgo rescues I know of recommend using both a harness and collar for their new adoptees.

People use harness for many different reasons - medical, legal, physical.  I *always* use a harness on my young puppies until they learn enough commands to not be a super flight risk, and a martigale fits them better.  If they are acting up or being squirrely puppies, I can grab a harness more easily and more safely than a collar.

Slip leads/collars are OK if you have the training and/or supervision to use one, but I would *never* suggest them for first time dog owners or someone just starting out with training a newly retired greyhound.  You can easily injure their neck and/or pharynx and cause permanent damage.

[Magdalene]

So I decided to try the martingale on Mia--she is big enough now that I can get it to fit her, and she walks better on that, overall.  (Except for when bunnies are spotted....)  In fact, she's been doing well enough on the martingale that she's gotten to 'meet' other dogs on walks, and has been much more polite and calm about it than she used to be.

However, she's no more fond of having the martingale slipped over her head than she was of the harness.  I truly don't get it, given how much she loves walks.  You'd think she'd be excited to see her collar and leash come out.  (Well, she *is*, but not the happy 'yay, it's walk time!' excitement....)

BTW, as of today, she's now nine months old, for what it's worth.  

Edited August 15, 2020 by Magdalene

[cleptogrey]

one more month to put under your belt!

just leave the martingale on unless she is in her crate. and do give her a treat every time you put the collar on. with in a week she will be sticking her head into the collar. i hope she is wearing a tag collar in the house if she is naked. the tag collar comes off in the crate as well. for the fast growing pups i like the lupine martingales- the 3/4" come in 2 sizes. i'm not sure if she needs the 9-14" or the 14-?. I use the 1/2" lupine buckle collars for tag collars.

[Magdalene]

Well, it looks like the fighting has now turned to 'play-fighting'--she likes to run around, and occasionally grab the martingale in her teeth and play a little tug-of-war.  After a bit, she'll settle down and let me slip it on.  And she's definitely much better behaved on walks with the martingale.  She got to meet some small kids last night (she's been wanting to do this forever, but I felt her manners weren't up to it), and she walked calmly up to one, snuggled her, and gave her kisses.  She met another lady on our walk tonight, and did the same--walked up, snuggled, and gave kisses.  

While her behavior isn't 100% perfect, it does seem ever since she 'graduated' to martingale, her overall behavior has been generally better.  She seems more inclined to listen, anyway.  Not always, but there is more calm around here.