Canine Removal Advice

[Muriel]

Hello fellow greyhound people,

 

It's been awhile since I've been on this site but I think I could really use some advice. My grey, Ginger, is 12 1/2 years and has been relatively healthy with the exception of a sensitive stomach. She only has about 8-10 teeth left in her mouth and they need to be removed, this includes her canines. I went to see a \veterinarian who specializes in dental work and does this regularly. She has a lot of pain in the bottom teeth and they bleed easily as there is not much tissue left. It will cost between $2,000-$2,800 to do the work. I feel pretty confident in his abilities but am of course concerned of her recovery. He expressed concerns about the lack of tissue for the suturing after the extraction for the bottom canines, and I need to follow up on that issue. He did indicate a very minor risk of a potential oro-nasal fistula from the removal of the upper canines. He was very upfront about the procedure but also indicated that she really needed to have it done.

 

Has anyone else been through this and can they share their experience please? Also, is anyone familiar with any qualified vets at the University of Florida Vet School who do this type of work or any other vets in the southwest Florida area?

 

Thank you in advance

Muriel

[XTRAWLD]

Got scared by the title, wondered why you need a canine removal and then realized it's a tooth!

 

To be fair, a canine tooth (let alone all 4 at once) is not an easy extraction, but I do not have direct experience with this. I'm certain more will chime in. Wealth of knowledge here. At her age I would be concerned going ahead with this surgery. Good on you for getting all of your information prior to proceeding.

 

Gentle scritches to Ginger!

[Muriel]

LOL thanks,, I'm so focused on the procedure that I didn't realize how the title might read! I'll try to modify. Yes, I agree her age is a concern but the vet said that it would be a real concern if she had any pre-existing health issues......

[macoduck]

Removing the canines would worry me. Percy came to us last year with 8 year and they all needed to go. My vet would not remove the lower canines (he was already missing his uppers) for fear of breaking the jaw.

Are Ginger's lower canines loose?

It's good that you're seeking out a specialist.

Ask to have Amicar on hand, or tranexamic acid to save money. Out of 17 dogs Percy was my first bleeder and we almost lost him. Having only 2 teeth now hasn't slowed down his eating at all.

[mom2four]

Our Ambi suffered from stomatitis and over the course of 3 dentals had all his teeth removed by age 7- he's doing great, three or so years later.

 

A dental specialist was brought in to remove his last big teeth, including his 4 canines. What I was told by the 'regular' vet who was observing and learning, was that the vet very gently rocked the canines back and forth, each time getting the dental "scoop" tool a bit deeper. I have no idea what the tool is called. It worked great, but took time.

 

Amicar is a good idea.

 

Sending good luck wishes!

ETA- Ambi eats kibbles with some water on them (1/3 cup or so) without any problems.

Edited October 19, 2016 by mom2four

[MP_the4pack]

My Diamond lost all her teeth eventually. She went to a dentist too. $3000 for me. One thing my dentist did was fill in the holes with some sort of bone meal. I know it's not the same stuff that you throw in the garden, not sure exactly what it was (8 yrs ago). But she did say that it helped fill in the holes, helped the bones heal and prevented the jaw from breaking.

 

Over the next 4 yrs or so Diamond's bottom jar got smaller, but not so much that anyone would look at her and say "OMG, what's wrong with her jaw?!". I am the only one who really noticed.

I think she lost all her teeth by age 8 or 9. I lost her to OS age 12. So she did just fine.

 

I know she still ate kibble (I always had it in water, but didn't let it soften). I think I even gave her milkbones. But I'm not sure. She seemed to be able to eat everything else.

 

However recovery was rough. She was really hurting for a while. (she lost 23 at once) So she got scrambled eggs for all her meals for several days.

[Saharasmom]

My borzoi had 19 teeth (including one lower canine) removed earlier this year. He looked awful the first night, but the recovery was really swift. He was drooling at first, which was mixed with blood. I'd pack multiple old blankets in the car and around her bed. I was worried about getting pain meds in him, as I couldn't pull his jaws apart to pill. Luckily, he ate canned food right away & swallowed balls of canned food with pills with no issue.

[Walliered]

DaVid had one lower canine removed because of an infection. He was about 6 or 7 years old. My regular vet did it and gave the tooth to me. I had absolutely no idea how long that tooth was!! He has done fine, but the other lower one broke at the gum line and vet said to just watch it and we have been watching for about 3 years. She is reluctant to remove it. He is 10 1/2 now.

[Muriel]

Thanks for the information about Percy. Ginger swallows her food but will miss grabbing her squeaky toys I think the canines may be loose, but I will add that to my list of questions. What is Amicar and tranexamic acid?

[Muriel]

Our Ambi suffered from stomatitis and over the course of 3 dentals had all his teeth removed by age 7- he's doing great, three or so years later.

 

A dental specialist was brought in to remove his last big teeth, including his 4 canines. What I was told by the 'regular' vet who was observing and learning, was that the vet very gently rocked the canines back and forth, each time getting the dental "scoop" tool a bit deeper. I have no idea what the tool is called. It worked great, but took time.

 

Amicar is a good idea.

 

Sending good luck wishes!

ETA- Ambi eats kibbles with some water on them (1/3 cup or so) without any problems.

Thank you for that information. I will check on the methodology for removing them. How old was Ambi when he had them removed?

My Diamond lost all her teeth eventually. She went to a dentist too. $3000 for me. One thing my dentist did was fill in the holes with some sort of bone meal. I know it's not the same stuff that you throw in the garden, not sure exactly what it was (8 yrs ago). But she did say that it helped fill in the holes, helped the bones heal and prevented the jaw from breaking.

 

Over the next 4 yrs or so Diamond's bottom jar got smaller, but not so much that anyone would look at her and say "OMG, what's wrong with her jaw?!". I am the only one who really noticed.

I think she lost all her teeth by age 8 or 9. I lost her to OS age 12. So she did just fine.

 

I know she still ate kibble (I always had it in water, but didn't let it soften). I think I even gave her milkbones. But I'm not sure. She seemed to be able to eat everything else.

 

However recovery was rough. She was really hurting for a while. (she lost 23 at once) So she got scrambled eggs for all her meals for several days.

Thank you for that information. I'll ask about the filling of the holes since he did seem to express some concerns about the lack of tissue around her lower canines. I'm sorry that you lost Diamond to OS. It's hard to see them suffer..................

My borzoi had 19 teeth (including one lower canine) removed earlier this year. He looked awful the first night, but the recovery was really swift. He was drooling at first, which was mixed with blood. I'd pack multiple old blankets in the car and around her bed. I was worried about getting pain meds in him, as I couldn't pull his jaws apart to pill. Luckily, he ate canned food right away & swallowed balls of canned food with pills with no issue.

Thanks for sharing. May I ask how old your borzoi is?

DaVid had one lower canine removed because of an infection. He was about 6 or 7 years old. My regular vet did it and gave the tooth to me. I had absolutely no idea how long that tooth was!! He has done fine, but the other lower one broke at the gum line and vet said to just watch it and we have been watching for about 3 years. She is reluctant to remove it. He is 10 1/2 now.

Glad to hear that DaVid recovered so well. I just cringe at the thought of this surgery and the recovery involved!

[Rickiesmom]

This probably won't help if the teeth are loose, but could they do root canals instead? No experience, just trying to think about how to alleviate pain without extractions.

[macoduck]

Thanks for the information about Percy. Ginger swallows her food but will miss grabbing her squeaky toys I think the canines may be loose, but I will add that to my list of questions. What is Amicar and tranexamic acid?

Amicar controls post op bleeding. Dr Couto recommends it for limb amputations and other procedures where bleeding could be a risk.

 

The original manufacturer of Amicar hiked the cost from @ $50 to over $500 on the day of Percy's surgery. Your vet may or may not keep it in stock. Make sure it is on hand and be sure to have it available for post op recovery if needed. My vet only carried it in an injectable form and when she saw his profuse bleeding, she injected it directly into the extraction socket. Amicar pills are given for 5 days.

 

Dr Couto told me about Tranexamic Acid when I had difficulty finding the Amicar (even before the price hike). For dogs, TA would be an off-label use as it is normally for women with heavy menstrual bleeding.

IIRC it was less than $30. You will need an Rx from your vet to get it at the human pharmacy. It's usually not an in-stock item, so if you choose this order ahead. Same for the Amicar.

 

We'd only had Percy for a few months at the time of his extractions. We had no knowledge of his medical history since he was found wandering the streets in FL. My "mommy sense" was humming off the charts that he might be a bleeder. Everyone thought I was nuts, but I was right.

[Saharasmom]

Muriel - My borzoi is only 8; I assume his dental issues are genetic. When he was under for the dental, X-rays showed his teeth were decayed under the gumline. That explained his stinky mouth even with regular brushing.

[macoduck]

You can read more about our ordeal getting Amicar here http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1

and here http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/314761-amicar-shortage-availablility-alternative-update-post-1/?hl=amicar

 

And elsewhere in the Health & Medical forum as well.

[Bogangles]

My girl had had three dentals all together. The last one when she was 14 years old. There were just a couple of teeth on either side of her mouth and the four canines. We were trying to avoid putting her under at this age but the infection flared up and antibiotics were not going to be the answer. So we went ahead with a certified board specialist dentist in Toronto. My poor girl had a really tough time recovering from the anesthetic, first of all, as they had to keep her overnight which was not the plan. She also had pain in her mouth where the teeth had been removed and the dentist could not figure out why!!! She lived until she was over 15 put had a really difficult time eating and subsequently got weaker and weaker and had a fall 10 months later and we had to let her go.

 

It had been suggested by someone on GT that I should take her to Ohio State University and I really wish I had now and completely avoided the vet who performed the surgery who then decided she did not want to deal with the situation when it went wrong and walked away refusing to see her again and not taking any of my calls. And my little girl suffered all that time and she was such a trooper.

 

I hope this does not disturb you but I wish we had found a much more competent and compassionate vet to do this procedure. The bottom line is the infection had to be put under control.

 

I guess the point is getting the right person and someone who is completely familiar with greyhounds and dentistry with a very good track record.

[Muriel]

This probably won't help if the teeth are loose, but could they do root canals instead? No experience, just trying to think about how to alleviate pain without extractions.

Good question. I'll add it to the list.

Amicar controls post op bleeding. Dr Couto recommends it for limb amputations and other procedures where bleeding could be a risk.

 

The original manufacturer of Amicar hiked the cost from @ $50 to over $500 on the day of Percy's surgery. Your vet may or may not keep it in stock. Make sure it is on hand and be sure to have it available for post op recovery if needed. My vet only carried it in an injectable form and when she saw his profuse bleeding, she injected it directly into the extraction socket. Amicar pills are given for 5 days.

 

Dr Couto told me about Tranexamic Acid when I had difficulty finding the Amicar (even before the price hike). For dogs, TA would be an off-label use as it is normally for women with heavy menstrual bleeding.

IIRC it was less than $30. You will need an Rx from your vet to get it at the human pharmacy. It's usually not an in-stock item, so if you choose this order ahead. Same for the Amicar.

 

We'd only had Percy for a few months at the time of his extractions. We had no knowledge of his medical history since he was found wandering the streets in FL. My "mommy sense" was humming off the charts that he might be a bleeder. Everyone thought I was nuts, but I was right.

Thanks for all that information. I will add it to my list. Mommy sense is the same as spidey sense!

[Muriel]

My girl had had three dentals all together. The last one when she was 14 years old. There were just a couple of teeth on either side of her mouth and the four canines. We were trying to avoid putting her under at this age but the infection flared up and antibiotics were not going to be the answer. So we went ahead with a certified board specialist dentist in Toronto. My poor girl had a really tough time recovering from the anesthetic, first of all, as they had to keep her overnight which was not the plan. She also had pain in her mouth where the teeth had been removed and the dentist could not figure out why!!! She lived until she was over 15 put had a really difficult time eating and subsequently got weaker and weaker and had a fall 10 months later and we had to let her go.

 

It had been suggested by someone on GT that I should take her to Ohio State University and I really wish I had now and completely avoided the vet who performed the surgery who then decided she did not want to deal with the situation when it went wrong and walked away refusing to see her again and not taking any of my calls. And my little girl suffered all that time and she was such a trooper.

 

I hope this does not disturb you but I wish we had found a much more competent and compassionate vet to do this procedure. The bottom line is the infection had to be put under control.

 

I guess the point is getting the right person and someone who is completely familiar with greyhounds and dentistry with a very good track rec

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry to hear of what happened to your sweetie. This is the kind story I can easily see happening, unfortunately. This vet is a certified board specialist dentist. I feel pretty confident in his abilities but need to ask more questions. She is in pain and it does probably have to get done. This would be her 4th time (and final) getting teeth extracted! The last vet who extracted teeth had predicted I would have to face this sooner or later.....She shakes all over, even for the consultation, because for her going to the vet means getting teeth pulled

[Guest OPointyDog]

My male greyhound (age 8) had the last of his teeth removed this summer. He has CUPS (Chronic Ulcerative Paradontal Stomatitis) and so his mouth and gums were constantly infected. We originally had planned to take out all the teeth in two stages, but in the end it took three surgeries because of the length of time the surgeries took. So every few months, we'd take out more teeth. Each surgery was about $1300, so in the end, about $4K. We did the right side and then the bottom left and then the top left. The bone in his jaw had started to grow into the roots on the right side, so the surgery took a really long time, and our vet did not want to leave him under anesthesia more than a couple hours, so that's why we opted for stages.

 

We had ours done by our regular vet, who has plenty of dental experience. We did use amicar for the first one and then tranexamic acid when amicar became prohibitively expensive. I order the tranexamic acid through a compounding pharmacy ahead of time, and you start the meds the day BEFORE the surgery.

 

Ours has had no issues - you'll be amazed at how well they function with no teeth! His tongue hangs out when he sleeps, but he just looks adorably goofy. He still grabs and plays with his toys and drags blankets around. We soak his kibble (he's on a prescription food for other reasons) and he has no trouble eating. You either just need to give them soft or very small treats, and they do great. He was a bit wobbly and had some oozing and soreness for a couple days after the surgery, but by day 3 was pretty much back to his normal behavior, and was grabbing things with his mouth within a couple weeks. Pain meds are important and you should have a plan for pain management afterwards. He can't have opiates, so we gave him an NSAID and gabapentin for about a week afterwards.

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by OPointyDog

[Muriel]

My male greyhound (age 8) had the last of his teeth removed this summer. He has CUPS (Chronic Ulcerative Paradontal Stomatitis) and so his mouth and gums were constantly infected. We originally had planned to take out all the teeth in two stages, but in the end it took three surgeries because of the length of time the surgeries took. So every few months, we'd take out more teeth. Each surgery was about $1300, so in the end, about $4K. We did the right side and then the bottom left and then the top left. The bone in his jaw had started to grow into the roots on the right side, so the surgery took a really long time, and our vet did not want to leave him under anesthesia more than a couple hours, so that's why we opted for stages.

 

We had ours done by our regular vet, who has plenty of dental experience. We did use amicar for the first one and then tranexamic acid when amicar became prohibitively expensive. I order the tranexamic acid through a compounding pharmacy ahead of time, and you start the meds the day BEFORE the surgery.

 

Ours has had no issues - you'll be amazed at how well they function with no teeth! His tongue hangs out when he sleeps, but he just looks adorably goofy. He still grabs and plays with his toys and drags blankets around. We soak his kibble (he's on a prescription food for other reasons) and he has no trouble eating. You either just need to give them soft or very small treats, and they do great. He was a bit wobbly and had some oozing and soreness for a couple days after the surgery, but by day 3 was pretty much back to his normal behavior, and was grabbing things with his mouth within a couple weeks. Pain meds are important and you should have a plan for pain management afterwards. He can't have opiates, so we gave him an NSAID and gabapentin for about a week afterwards.

 

Thanks for sharing that story. The picture is awesome. Ginger used to look like that until she learned how to keep her tongue in her mouth! It sounds like using tranexamic acid is the way to go. Her regular vet thought that a specialist with an anesthesiologist would be best for these extractions. It sounds like each dog will have their own experience and there are many variables that will affect that. All you can do is educate yourself the best you can and get a doctor who you feel comfortable with! She definitely can't continue to live with infected gums and pain.

[buddibear]

Dr Peak at TampaBay Veterinary Specialists in Largo ( Clearwater) is the dental specialist we use when the group's go to Doc is in over his head. 727 5353500

[Walliered]

That bed look just like the ones I have. Jack Fleming????

[Muriel]

Dr Peak at TampaBay Veterinary Specialists in Largo ( Clearwater) is the dental specialist we use when the group's go to Doc is in over his head. 727 5353500

Thank you. I will check him out. I imagine you have utmost confidence in him otherwise you wouldn't be recommending him?

[Guest OPointyDog]

That bed look just like the ones I have. Jack Fleming????

 

Yes, Victoria Peak beds. I'm sorry to see they aren't in business any more! They are such great beds!

 

Let us know how the tooth removal goes - I was thinking about you this morning when my toothless dog slimed me! He really is happier and healthier now without the nasty infections in his mouth.

[Muriel]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm providing a follow-up for Ginger's canine and associated teeth removal. Her canines and some associated teeth were removed by Dr. Peak in Sarasota, Florida in early January. She is now officially toothless or teethless (not sure which is right!). She is doing great and feeling like her old self. The few months leading up to the operation, she had become somewhat lethargic and not too eager to eat her food. Now she is back to being the pup she always was, full of energy and enthusiasm. Dr. Peak did a great job, and I felt really good in choosing him to do the procedure. His staff were always professional and attentive, both before and after the procedure. He has over 15 years experience in pet dentistry, and I recommend him for anyone who lives in or near the area (Sarasota/Tampa, Florida area). I had to drive about an 1 1/2 hours from Fort Myers, and it was definitely worth it. The price he estimated for the procedure is the price I ended up paying. I see other vets giving you a wide range on an estimate and then you end paying at the high end and sometimes more. I really appreciate all of the advice that I received on this posting, and it really help me choose the right vet to do Ginger's procedure.

 

Kind regards, Muriel and Ginger

[MP_the4pack]

I'm glad she's doing so well. I think local GPs are sufficient to remove a tooth or two, but when you have to get some real dental work done, I'll go to a dentist all the time. I too have to travel an hour and a half to get to my girl's dentist who is very expensive. But so worth it.

 

thanks for the update.