I Love Him Dearly But Sometimes I Still Feel Discouraged

[Guest k9soul]

Rudy is a bit of a paradox as he lives for being touched and petted, for as long as anyone will be willing to do it. I have had him literally stand by my chair for close to an hour if I kept petting him.

 

Once he lies down, he's a no-touch dog. He's been with me since the end of January 2012, so we are getting close to a year now, and I have worked with careful counter-conditioning and can now generally pet him a bit when he is lying down if his head is up and he is alert. If he is really settling in to sleep, with body relaxed and lying his head down, I've left him be. It has worked out pretty well with that and he is not space aggressive in general, I can walk right by or over him and he is not bothered by it.

 

Lately, however, he is becoming increasingly desirous of being very close to me. He wants to get on the sofa with me which he never used to do. He lies down close to my office chair sometimes. All of this is fine -- unless he is touched or anything shifts or disturbs his body in any way, and then he rears up snarling. This includes shifting on the couch so that the cushions move slightly, or if a blanket brushes him a bit, and so on. I have not been letting him on the sofa while I'm on it for this reason. But when I don't allow him up with me, he then settles on the floor right next to the sofa with his body leaning into it. Again, if my blanket brushes him or I shift to get up and he feels this movement he jerks his head up growling. Last night my blanket slipped off a bit and touched him and he jerked his head up with a growl, when I pulled the blanket back up, because it was still touching him he jumped to his feet and moved towards me a bit with slightly bared teeth and a louder, frustrated kind of growl. It's really the exact same type of growl/snarl that he would use for another dog who was irritating him. It's irritation/frustration it seems like to me. After that he went off and laid on his own bed further away.

 

He's perfect in so many ways, but sometimes it's just discouraging to me to feel like I'm on eggshells around him in these situations. The other night he was lying similarly right by the couch and I had some training treats with me. I'd let the blanket just barely brush against him and simultaneously toss a treat. This did seem to shift his frame of mind and I just kept doing that for a while. I'd wait until he had his head down and was looking sleepy and then have something brush him slightly, and throw down a treat.

 

I guess this is just something I will have to work more diligently on over a period of time to try and counter-condition his response. I wish we could snuggle up together on the sofa. I would love it so much. That is when I feel a bit discouraged, when my mind slips into wishing that and I then feel like that may never be completely possible.

Edited December 18, 2013 by k9soul

[Guest Giselle]

Hug. You have our full support. You're doing the right things.

 

I guess this is just something I will have to work more diligently on over a period of time to try and counter-condition his response. I wish we could snuggle up together on the sofa. I would love it so much. That is when I feel a bit discouraged, when my mind slips into wishing that and I then feel like that may never be completely possible.

Yup. This is, essentially, life with a difficult dog. We always wish we could do more, train more, practice more, and maybe - just maybe - our dogs could resemble that picture of "normal" we have in our heads. But they are who they are, and they've made us better people for it. Maybe you'll have to train and be diligent for a very long time, but I actually think this is a rather fun and engaging challenge, isn't it? It's a dog who is constantly asking you to be better, to try harder, to do more. It's rather pleasant if we look at it that way!

 

For what it's worth, I'm sure you know but my journey with the Dobermutt lasted many painful years before we finally figured out the key to managing her behavior. And I would not have given up that painful journey for anything in the world. It was the best thing I ever did. You'll get there with Rudy, too. He needs someone as caring and willing as you, and he will reward you in innumerable ways.

[Guest k9soul]

Thank you so much Giselle. Your post lifted my mood a lot. Sometimes having some commiseration along with some fresh perspective makes all the difference!

[greysmom]

Patience. And time. A year isn't really very long to re-condition a dog that has learned the behavior for three times as long. We've had Whiskey for 2 years, and he can still sound like Cujo if he gets sleep startled.

 

Would I like to cuddle with him? Yes, he's adorable and loves to snuggle - until he falls asleep, which he does very quickly. So we just don't, except in very short doses. No couch sharing. No bed sharing. That's the dog we got, so that's the dog we deal with on his terms. This is what he can do, and this is what he can't. We still work with him and try and desensitize him, but he's just not going to be one of those dogs that will entirely get rid of the behavior.

 

Don't take his growling personally - he's not really irritated with you. It's an instinctive reaction he can't help. Really, you guys have come SO FAR! You couldn't even walk by his bed in the beginning, so give yourself a pat on the back for all the hard work you and Rudy have put in!

[XTRAWLD]

Do you think he's this way because he is in pain with the limping, etc.?

[Guest k9soul]

Do you think he's this way because he is in pain with the limping, etc.?

 

No, he's been this way from day one and was bounced 3 times before me because of it. He gets adopted easily because he's extremely outgoing, then returned when he scares people.

 

As an aside, his limp and pain issues are much improved from what they were. He had an extremely thorough examination at TOPS Veterinary Rehab Center and was diagnosed with biceps tendonitis. He's on supplements and some physical therapy treatment, and much of the time he has seemingly no limp at all for the past 10 days or so.

Don't take his growling personally - he's not really irritated with you. It's an instinctive reaction he can't help. Really, you guys have come SO FAR! You couldn't even walk by his bed in the beginning, so give yourself a pat on the back for all the hard work you and Rudy have put in!

 

Thank you, and you're right about this. I think really it's probably less irritation and more a defensiveness when he does it. We really have already come a long way, and I accepted long ago that he would not be a dog who I could cuddle with on the couch and bed, but that disappointment reared up in me a bit again when lately he has shown such desire to go to sleep near me.

[cometdust1]

If you keep up with what you are doing Rudy will probably continue to become more relaxed when he is lying down. My Jeep is the same way. I've had him for a little less than 2 years and he is still a work in progress. Only in the last 6 months has he started sleeping on the bed with me. He could not be touched, however. He would snarl and snap too. In the last month, he has started sleeping right up along side me and I can even pet him if I talk to him first. Even with the progress, he still snarled when I tossed in my sleep and flung my arm on him last night. He's funny, he's very scared of his legs being touched when lying down. If I lay next to him and his feet are facing me he will get up and turn so his back faces me instead. He's crabbier at night than in the morning. In the morning, he has even started playing with me with his feet and mouth, and turning on his back to be petted. At night though,foggetaboutit! Keep at it; there's a playful boy still evolving in there! By the way, Jeep only started tossing stuffies around about 2 months ago. Now he even plays fetch and tug of war with them. He loves his toybox and pulls every toy out when I get home and plays off and on all night. This is entirely new for him and he only does it for me; not my husband. Good luck and just give him time to trust at his own pace. It will happen.

[nessa]

I have no scientific answer for you, but my space and sleep aggression dog is now the biggest lover, snuggler and bed hog there is. She is bomb proof when pushed (she takes up too much room in bed), touched and kissed at any time- bed, sofa, dog bed...

It took more then one year I am sure, but now 6 years later, I can not remember the last time that happened. More time and patience.

Keep up the good work.

[FiveRoooooers]

Rudy is so lucky to have bounced to you, but I know you feel that you are the lucky one! I had one who exhibited the same type of behavior, you know what finally worked for us? I growled back. Boy, was he surprised! And that was the end of that. He ended up being one of my best snugglers.

 

Don't give up. You have already made tremendous strides!

[krissn333]

Ozzie was like that a bit too. In the short time he has been with me he's gotten much better. It takes time and conditioning though. If he is REALLY asleep and gets startled, I'll hear a short low grumble, but that is all. In my sleep I'll even say "it's okay" and then he goes back to sleep.

[Guest k9soul]

Thanks so much for the encouragement everyone. I would love to someday be able to snuggle up with Rudy, but I think it's best not to harbor that expectation, and rather keep working on getting him to associate disturbance leading to good things. I'm sure we can only grow in our relationship as time goes on.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

In the first few months, Dudley had some serious sleep startle+space aggression. Of course we were stupid and let him sleep in the bed. Dudley snapped and went after my bf twice when he was walking next to the dog bed, and really scared the bf who had only dogs raised in the house before, we almost returned him. Now we are working on similar issues with strangers/friend in the house, but I come home to this on a daily basis, and it made all that work worth it sometimes he will still grumble a little at night if we roll on him (doesn't happen often) but it's been almost two years, and the journey has been coming along nicely.

 

ETA: I think greys prefer a different kind of snuggling, not like some dogs you can just scoop up like a baby. We learned that dudley likes to snuggle only in certain positions, and others make him uncomfortable. Try to really get a hold on what his body language is telling you

Edited December 18, 2013 by Clawsandpaws

[Guest k9soul]

Dudley is so adorable. He is a Lonesome Cry boy too isn't he? He sometimes reminds me of Rudy with his expressions and ear set I really had some "What have I gotten myself into" moments with Rudy his first few months too. There was one incident that had me thinking "Ok I can't do this" for a little while but it faded after I settled down.

Edited December 18, 2013 by k9soul

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Dudley is so adorable. He is a Lonesome Cry boy too isn't he? He sometimes reminds me of Rudy with his expressions and ear set I really had some "What have I gotten myself into" moments with Rudy his first few months too. There was one incident that had me thinking "Ok I can't do this" for a little while but it faded after I settled down.

He is a lonesome cry pup, I think they are the most handsome trust me, I still have moments where I think "life could be so much easier if..." but then he looks at me with this adorable face and wants his ear scritches and my heart just melts. He is very easy to live with, but occasionally I have those moments where he frustrates me.

 

In the grand scheme of things, a year is not such a long time, assume it took him 6 months to really settle in, now it's only been 6 months for you two to really and truly start to get to know each other. I am glad he bounced into your home!

[krissn333]

...Ozzie is a Lonesome Cry pup too. Makes me wonder if there's a hereditary component to the sleep startle...

[Guest k9soul]

...Ozzie is a Lonesome Cry pup too. Makes me wonder if there's a hereditary component to the sleep startle...

 

Certainly seems possible. I seem to recall Acadianaroses' Payton is a Lonesome Cry pup too and also has some space issues.

Edited December 18, 2013 by k9soul

[RaineysMom]

I feel your pain. Larry is exactly the same way, he's a bounce too for going after a former family member. He's bed/sleep aggressive so having him sleep in bed with us will never, ever happen. It makes me sad too because this is the first time ever I haven't had at least one dog in bed with us since 1990 and I sure miss it. Both Rainey and Nube were super snuggly and I really miss it. We (well, ME really, Bruce is a-ok with NOT having to share his bed) tried once with Zeke -- who can be petted and snuggled with on his dog bed, unlike Larry -- but he started dreaming and I called to him to wake him up and he woke up growling, so that ended that.

 

we should probably do the treat thing with Larry, hope it works well for you!

[claudiav]

Rudy is so lucky to have bounced to you, but I know you feel that you are the lucky one! I had one who exhibited the same type of behavior, you know what finally worked for us? I growled back. Boy, was he surprised! And that was the end of that. He ended up being one of my best snugglers.

 

Don't give up. You have already made tremendous strides!

 

I wanted to say the same thing.... I have had various sleep startle growliness, and I just yell back "HEY!!" really loud and scare them... and it never happens again...

[winnie]

We've had our grey girl Darcy for seven years now. She had/has both space and food aggression. It took her over a year to even think about getting on furniture. I don't even recall how long it took for us to really snuggle with her. Now, she sleeps in bed with us. She is good most of the time, but may bark/growl if startled. She still has space and food aggression with other dogs though. Her nickname is Cujo. Will she ever get over her issues? Maybe, Maybe Not. However, she has transformed considerably in her interactions with humans. It just took a really, really long time. The tough ones make it so worthwhile though.

[Acadianarose]

 

Certainly seems possible. I seem to recall Acadianaroses' Payton is a Lonesome Cry pup too and also has some space issues.

 

Yep. I was just about to chime in.

 

Your post could have been written by me. Payton has only been here 4 months and is doing much better, but I don't think he will ever be a snuggler. We can pet him if his head is up and he is alert (which is a huge improvement), but no one touches him if he is sleeping. We have been doing a lot of reconditioning and it has helped. We can walk around him or near him and he is fine. DD even accidently bumped his butt the other day and he just looked at her then laid back down. But there are times when he still makes me nervous. I think he wants to be a snuggler, but sleeping next to someone stresses him out too much.

 

I know exactly what you are going through! But Rudy is so lucky to have you.

[Guest k9soul]

I think he wants to be a snuggler, but sleeping next to someone stresses him out too much.

 

I know exactly what you are going through! But Rudy is so lucky to have you.

 

This is how Rudy seems too, like he really wants to snuggle. He seems to be wanting more and more to settle down to where he is close to people, but then when he is falling asleep and there is any disturbance he gets stressed.

 

Thank you, I feel Payton is a lucky boy too

[KickReturn]

Expect things to keep improving. Depending on what Rudy's personality is like, a previous poster's suggestion of just yelling back just might work. I have never used that tactic on a Greyhound but I have seen it work on other breeds.

[galgrey]

I too think Rudy is incredibly fortunate to have landed with you. Sounds like he's made a lot of progress and I'll be the will continue to improve.

 

My girl, Carly, is the same way. I don't say this to discourage anyone, but I've now had her over 7 years (she's almost 11) and she's still has horrible sleep startle/aggression. She has improved over the year, but she'll never be a social butterfly. She doesn't like Meet and Greets and doesn't like going in public where there are lot of people. She's extremely quirky too. I could write a book about her quirks.

 

I didn't know about the sleep startle issue when I adopted her, but I knew that she was extremely fearful and I knew that if an inexperienced person adopted her she would bounce again and again, so I took on the challenge. She's pretty affectionate now all these years later and sometimes would like to snuggle with me, but once she falls asleep and I move even the slightest little bit, she flips out. She doesn't always growl and snap now though. Sometimes she will startle, panic, and then run. She's actually fallen before trying to run from the room while still half asleep. But she's better than she used to be and I love her dearly. I've never regretted adopting her. I know I've given her a quiet and stable home and she knows she's loved for who she is, quirks and all. (She's a daughter of Oswald Cobblepot, BTW)

 

My girl Princess is intensely social, craves human contact, and has never met a stranger, but in the first year I had her, she would growl at me sometimes when I hugged her or kissed her face. I realized she was uncomfortable with this and would back off. But sometimes I would forget and she would remind me if I got too much in her space. I've had her 6 years and she's over that with me. She sleeps with me with no problem. She will still, however, growl at other dogs who get too close to her when she sleeping or laying down. No bed or even sofa sharing for her! She growled at Carly just this morning for even considering getting on the sofa with her despite the fact there was plenty of room.

[Acadianarose]

I believe you have to look at how far you have come. You are doing a great job with Rudy and he will continue to improve.

 

I see all of the pictures of people snuggling with their dogs and at times I wish Payton was more like that. I can't even cut his darn nails! But he has come so far and little improvements mean so much to me. He jumped up in bed and laid with DD for a little while the other day. He playbowed and tried to engage us in the play for the first time this week.

 

Other people with easy dogs take things like that for granted. We don't.