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Osteo Thread Part V I I


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Kim, I'm so glad to hear that Casper is doing well! Like you, I decided to keep things fairly simple. I was also rather overwhelmed with the myriad of possible supplements/diet, etc.

 

There were just too many combinations and nuances, and not enough hard data for me to get my head around making decisions beyond the 100 mg/day of artemisinin that OSU was recommending.

 

I've contemplated curcumin, but I haven't added it. It might be a good idea - I don't think it could hurt (beyond possible loose stools, I think I read...) and it may well help.

 

Kyle (Charlies_Dad) had a much more thorough approach with diet and supplements, and Charlie did very, very well. If you look back through the Osteo threads, I know he has posted much of their routine.

 

I'm looking forward to a good report on the 19th!

Wendy with Twiggy, fosterless while Twiggy's fighting the good fight, and Donnie & Aiden the kitties

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Kim, you might consider giving Casper K9 Immunity Plus:

 

http://www.alohamedicinals.com/k9-immunity-plus.htm

 

It comes in sausage-like pieces that our dogs seem to think are quite the treat. (Lana is also very cautious about medicines in her food.) I think it was one of the supplements recommended on the arte group.

 

We've started giving Lana the I'm-Yunity that I posted about earlier. I don't know if it'll help, but we figured it was worth a try. We had to discontinue Lana's Palladia due to side effects (diarrhea, loss of appetite, obvious malaise, recurring conjunctivitis). It was a hard decision that I still question, but seeing how happy and full of energy she has been these past few days compared to how ill and uncomfortable she was every time she took Palladia gives me hope that it's the right decision for her.

Edited by Victor
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Guest fastcasper

Thank you for the suggestions!! I'm also going to look into Immunity4Pets, it seems a lot of folk on the Artemin yahoo group use that. It seems pretty straight forward. They also have mentioned the K9 Immunity Plus as well. Dr. Mason at UPenn who is conducting the vaccination study for Osteo, did recommend Artemin for sure and some of her clients use K9 Immunity too) She, like other vets/researcher need more concrete evidence that supplements work. I don't want to overwhelm me or Casper in finding a good balance of quality of life.

 

I am very happy to hear Lana is being her old self!! Don't you just want to hug her all the time???? :)

I will read back and find Charlie's diet.

Thanks again guys!!

 

Kim

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On page 2 again. I hope this is good news.

 

Bumping

Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

52592535884_69debcd9b4.jpgsiggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly

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Just got back form the vet with Casper and we also don't have good news. There are small mets in his lungs so we are looking at our options. I can do doxorubicin or oral chemos. Any one have a experience on doxorubicin?

 

Kim

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Kim, I am sorry to read of Casper's update. We did doxorubicin for Charlie in place of Charboplatin. He did not have mets when did his chemo and while Palladia has shown some positive results with mets, I do not believe the final study came out positive for it. Again, so very sorry to read this.

Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge.

Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl.

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Not Casper, too! :( This is so unfair. I'm starting to wonder about the efficacy of carboplatin.

 

If I remember correctly Tempo had two doxorubicin treatments after his lung mets were discovered. There was some discussion about nausea and GI upset. I think the recommendation was that Cerenia be started before treatment with doxorubicin and continued for some time after treatment to head off potential problems.

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I'm going to talk with Dr. Couto too. My oncologist said Doxorubicin had the "best studied response".

 

Yes, this is what our vet found after reviewing a lot of data on Chemo results. Both are very close from a life span perspective but our vet found Doxorubicin to have a couple months longer median life span. Still was not great but I agree consulting with Dr. C is they way to go as we consulted with him long distance at amputation time, chemo and then again at the very end when we were considering surgery for Charlie's tumour in his chest. Dr. C. was willing to clear his schedule for us to come down to operate on Charlie and he had never met us.

 

Yes, Cerenia, is given along with Doxorubicin. The one thing about this drug is that it can damage the heart which we at the time were willing to accept.

Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge.

Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl.

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Thank you. My doc did say about the heart muscle damage as a side effect, but I am willing to take that risk if it helps shrink the tumors. It sounds like he has several small ones. They saw them on a very high resolution machine that could be missed on lesser machines.

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Sorry to hear about Casper's mets...seems like this is happening entirely too soon :(

 

One year ago today, we said goodbye to Pinky :cry1 I miss her terribly, she was such a funny little girl, and so tough. She was one year and a few weeks post-amputation.

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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Sorry to hear about Casper's mets...seems like this is happening entirely too soon :(

 

One year ago today, we said goodbye to Pinky :cry1 I miss her terribly, she was such a funny little girl, and so tough. She was one year and a few weeks post-amputation.

 

A very sad day Kristin. Pinky was a beautiful pup and one of my favs on GT. We all miss her.

Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge.

Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl.

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i'm really sorry to hear about casper, and hope you can still have lots of time together.

 

i don't want to discourage you, but i think it's only fair to hear both sides. if i were to do it again, i would not have put tempo through his doxorubicin treatments. we discovered his metastases on what would have been his 6th carboplatin treatment, and he received two doxorubicin treatments after that. he did no tolerate them anywhere near as well as the previous protocol, often losing two or three or even four days to exhaustion and nausea. if this had been earlier on in the treatment, i would have said those days were worth it to build up quality time on the other end. but as it happened, once his cancer spread, tempo had so little time left that those days of feeling poor were way too precious to have wasted. i would give anything to be able to see him again for one more minute, never mind one more day, so in retrospect, i wish i had had those days when he was feeling poor to do over. one more afternoon at the park, one more morning wagging his tail when i woke up, etc.

 

i would think it would be worth it to try at least once with the doxorubicin, though. maybe casper will do fine on it, and he will be able to enjoy benefits that tempo couldnt. all dogs are different, obviously, so there's a good chance it will work out ok. if he doesnt do well on that first treatment, though, i'd definitely start weighing the pros and cons.

Edited by jaym1
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KIm,

 

I agree with Jay on this as any chemo can have ill effects on a pup and each pup will handle it differently. It is important they are given Cerenia or something to help settle their stomachs. As for exhaustion, again each pup will be different but chemo can cause this but if it helps 'control' the mets, it's not a bad thing. There are other chemo protocols (oral) that you can investigate and I believe you were planning to do a consult with Dr. C. which is a good thing to do. Regardless of which way path you take, we'll be thinking good thoughts for Casper.

 

I hope Lana is doing well.

Edited by Charlies_Dad

Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge.

Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl.

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I'm so confused. :( My oncologist wants to try 2 round of doxo. I just heard from Dr. Couto is recommends metronomic chemo as he finds the doxo less effective for him. Now, I know Couto has worked on way more greys than really anyone else but my oncologist say doxo has the best studies response. I'm going to call my guy today and talk things over again. Yesturday I was going to do two round doxo, now after Couto, I'm on the fence.

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Thanks, Kim and Charlie's Dad, for asking about Lana. As far as we can tell she's doing well. After we stopped the Palladia her energy and appetite returned, the diarrhea stopped, and we were finally able to get her conjunctivitis under control. All we have her on now is artemisinin (100mg/day) and I'm-Unity (2800mg/day). Lana's so happy we're reluctant to start her back up on Palladia. These past two weeks she's even been playing with toys! She hasn't done that in a long time. She has an appointment for a chest x-ray next Wednesday, so I guess we'll wait and see how much the mets have changed before we decide what, if anything, to do next.


I'm so confused. :( My oncologist wants to try 2 round of doxo. I just heard from Dr. Couto is recommends metronomic chemo as he finds the doxo less effective for him. Now, I know Couto has worked on way more greys than really anyone else but my oncologist say doxo has the best studies response. I'm going to call my guy today and talk things over again. Yesturday I was going to do two round doxo, now after Couto, I'm on the fence.

I get the feeling that no one really knows what the best course of action is. When Lana's lung mets were discovered the oncologist said we could try either doxo or Palladia. He didn't express a strong preference for one or the other.

 

Is the metronomic chemo Dr. Couto recommends Palladia? Or Cytoxan?

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I agree with Victor, I don't think anyone has concrete facts that one protocol will work for one particular pup. It's such a crapshoot as others say and I do not envy your position Kim. Just an FYI, when we found a mass in Charlie's chest after 20+mths as an amp, it was heartbreaking and we swore we would do anything for him as long as he had a good quality of life. He was on Palladia for 15mths of that so didn't have a lot of options but we started a round of Carboplatin as he had Doxorubicin originally and we only got one round in when we realized things were not progressing well as fluid built up in his chest and when extracted, it was the worst outcome we could have expected and we said goodbye that Friday afternoon. I guess what I am trying to say is, there are no right decisions and nobody has the right answers. Dr. C. is providing his experiences which you are right are very numerous when it comes to Greys. As for your vet, he/she could be right that Dox would be Casper responds best to, nobody knows. Please give Casper a hug from me.

 

Victor, I am glad to hear Lana is doing okay. You can't ask for more than that. Continued good thoughts for your girl.

Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge.

Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl.

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Python was in for blood tests today (been on her new chemo for two weeks now) so we'll see how that comes back. I'm not expecting her levels to be low since her appetite and energy have been pretty much normal.

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I think I have decided what to do. Jay thoughts were helpful about Tempo's experience and Dr. Couto weighing in on this and some other folks. I think I am going to try the Cytoxan with Casper. Dr. Couto said some dogs did will with Doxo but statically Doxo did not work very well. So, with that, I think we will try Cytoxan for a month and then re-evaluate with situation. As you all know, it is very hard to be some what sure if you are making the right choice. I agree with what Jay said, it comes down to our dogs enjoying their remaining days, weeks, months. I knew Casper wasn't going to "beat" this cancer, but I had to see if he might that one dog in a thousand who survives longer than expected.

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Pinky tolerated the cytoxan very well, for what it is worth :)

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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I am so sad to see Casper is dealing with lung mets now, too. I think your decision to try the cytoxan is good. Cytoxan is the one part of Twiggy's metronomic protocol that didn't seem to have much negative effect. We discontinued it anyway, because I decided I just didn't want her to have to deal with any more side effects, period.

 

FWIW, Twiggy had carboplatin as her iv chemo. There are so few studies out there, and they aren't very big, and they don't seem to reach a common conclusion (one will show carbo having better results, another doxo, another still says alternating carbo/doxo shows the best results). And when it comes down to it, it may have to do with the unique characteristics of an individual dog's cancer. Unless we have a way of determining which course of treatment will work best for a particular dog, all we can do is make our decision based on what we (and our dog's oncologists) are most comfortable with and hope for the best.

 

Victor, I'm glad to hear Lana is feeling like herself again! I understand the reluctance to go back to the Palladia. When we re-tried Palladia, we went with a reduced dose. As it turned out, even that reduced dose was too much for her system to handle, so that was the end of Palladia around here.

 

I hope Python's bloodwork came back looking good, I'm glad to hear her energy levels are good!

 

Kristin, it is a sad anniversary. I miss seeing new pics of her pretty, happy face and hearing about her antics!. What a fighter and happy girl she was!

Wendy with Twiggy, fosterless while Twiggy's fighting the good fight, and Donnie & Aiden the kitties

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This picture never ceases to make me smile at this time of year though :)

 

c1b1ba4c.jpg

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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