Ok In Crate For 2 Days, Now Wont Go In It. :(

[tydyelady]

This whole crate business is new to us. Our first dog, Opie, who we just lost last month, hated the crate. After fighting with him for a week to get and stay in it (he escaped) we left him out and he was fine.

 

Well, with our new dog Toley we decided to leave him out in 3 rooms. It was a disaster, things knocked over, baby gates knocked down, poop and pee in the house (he was wearing a belly band and a muzzle). So Wednesday night late, we had a crate delivered. Thurs we still left him out, as we hadn't done any training with the crate. It was a disaster.

 

Thurs evening when we got home from work we tried putting him in the crate for short times. Then Friday we left for work, put him in crate with a kong, and we got home to a clean house, no poop or pee in the crate. Woo Hoo! Monday, after a nice weekend, we went to work, put him in crate, and we got home to everything fine again. Well today, he did not want to go in the crate. We actually had to force him and push and pull him in. He settled down when he saw the Kong, and we left. Came home to pee, poop, tray pushed out of the crate ( I left a lever down instead of up, oops) Everything in there was covered in poop, flung outside the crate. Not good. Now we are worrying about tomorrow, since we had to physically fight with him to go in there.

 

Why would he be fine for 2 days, and then suddenly refuse to get in it? We are not gone long days, usually between 5-6 1/2 hours. We know he can hold it - he sleeps all night next to us, very quietly.

 

Help!

[msjpk]

Have you done alone training? Can you have someone come in to check on him during the day and have him walked? Is there something different in the crate? I would continue to keep the crate available when you are home with the door open, do alone training. Do you have a radio on? Maybe alone training with a gate in kitchen or another room?

As far as the poop and pee, how long is he alone?

I know it is so hard to go to work and worry about your pupper.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Guest june]

So sorry you are going through this. As said previously it could be SA or your pup may have just decided he does't want to be in the crate. Can you baby gate him into one room? Kitchen? or a room with an easily cleaned floor (just in case)? Sometimes they get a taste of freedom and they don't want to go back to the crate. Good luck.

june

[racindog]

IMO it seems to me you need to make the crate a "good thing" to him. Feed him all his meals in the crate. Put his water in the crate. Keep treats close by so you can throw them in and he finds them in the crate. Praise and make a big deal when he goes into his crate. Get him to associate it with what he considers good things-like his kong as you have seen. Also it is not up to him to decide if he goes in. You are the human and the boss and he goes in whether he wants to or not. You may have to hog tie him to do it (joking) but you are in charge and in control and if you don't keep the upper hand so he knows you are his benevolent pack leader then it can develop into an out of control situation. By and large though he probably just needs more time to adjust. Sometimes it takes a lot longer than we think it should but they do get there with patience and then oh my what an angel they have become. You look back on things like you described and smile in amazement at how much they changed into the wonderful houndie you might not even have realized they were.

[Guest jschwe]

Our boy did a very similar thing. We got him just over a month ago and he was very nice about going in his crate, we left him all (work) day with no problem. After a couple days though it stopped being ok, pretty much the same conditions as you are finding. We are now working through alone training with him, without the crate. He does better out of it at nights anyways. We figurek he just realized "when I go in the crate they leave and it's scary" and that's why he stopped being ok with it. Best thing for him is lots of patience and training.

[tydyelady]

Thanks. He knocks down baby gates, no matter how tight we put them. We are not gone more than 7 hours tops, most of the time less 5- 6 1/2 hrs usual.

Yes we have the TV on for him. We are about to leave now (see late start time, should be home by 5-6) He has been hiding in the bedroom on his bed. We are going to be firm on getting him in there, although judging by yesterday it will be a physical fight. The only thing we did different yesterday is that we did not put his jammies on - after fighting to get him in the crate, and then realizing it, we did not want to let him out again. Today will be belly band and jammies, and kong, and treats - and hope for the best.

[a_daerr]

We actually had to force him and push and pull him in.

We are going to be firm on getting him in there, although judging by yesterday it will be a physical fight

 

Oh dear, this is not good. The crate should be a place to retreat where your grey is comfortable and happy. It will not work if it feels like a punishment. Unfortunately, now that he's gained a little freedom and went crazy un-crated, crate training is going to be a process. Make it a positive place where he gets treats, kongs, and bones. Another big mistake is to only crate the dog when you leave- he will start to believe going in the crate = my people are leaving = OMG! I don't like this!! Put him in the crate occasionally when you're home (always reward with treats). Start with five minutes, then fifteen. Work up gradually. When you get home, leave him in the crate for a few minutes until he settles down. Don't make a big deal about comings and goings. It could take a week or so until he gets more comfortable. Good luck!

Edited January 23, 2013 by a_daerr

[tydyelady]

Crate Fail! We cannot do the crate any more. He bent the bars, thrashed around in it, which knocked a coat rack down next to it. He pulled coat sleeves inside, destroyed one coat. I had little throw rugs with pee pads around the perimeter of the crate in case he pooped and knocked it out -- All were somehow dragged in and ripped to shreds. He also poped the lever and managed to push the crate tray bottom completely out of the crate. On top of that he broke a tooth. I see no future in the crate at all - we will have to work on alone training in other rooms of the house. The only positive thing was no poop, but he did pee in the belly band with pad in it. In the morning now he goes in the bedroom and lays on his bed when we are getting ready to leave.

I am so disappointed. I though we were making such progress with him, and its done a 180, where he is now injuring himself in the crate.

[Brandiandwe]

So, as suggested above, you might need to do some alone training out of the crate? Crating isn't the be all and end all. Neithe of ours were crated and if was fine.

[msjpk]

Sounds like a whole bunch of stress to me right now. Everyone take a deep breath.

 

Has he had the run of the house, with bedroom and bathroom doors closed? The smaller the area the more secure they can feel.

Back to mega alone training, with repitition, repitition.

Is it possible to take a day or 2 off from work and work on the above.

Have you tried a dap diffuser or rescue remedy drops.

 

I personally had no luck with dap but rescue remedy does work on my pupper for storms.

 

It is very stressful for you and the dog when going through this. Don't feel like a failure, it will all make sense with more time.

 

 

Just a FYI, my Lou didn't have a crate when we got him and he stayed in kitchen with a gate for the longest time and one day he decided, no more kitchen for me. I insisted that he go in kitchen and I came home to my countertops being chewed up. One good thing came of that, I got a new kitchen!!!

Lou was given the privilage of the house and no problem from him at all. Can you get someone to check on him while you are at work? Are you taking him for a walk before you go to out?

Keep us posted and I promise you will get great ideas here and good results.

[Batmom]

 

Hope his tooth doesn't need vet attention.

 

I would dogproof well and then leave him out, muzzled. I would also do all the usual "alone training" things -- get him well worn out before you leave, practice leaving a lot, radio on, kong, if possible have someone check in and let him out @ 2 hours after you leave.

[45MPHK9]

 

Hope his tooth doesn't need vet attention.

 

I would dogproof well and then leave him out, muzzled. I would also do all the usual "alone training" things -- get him well worn out before you leave, practice leaving a lot, radio on, kong, if possible have someone check in and let him out @ 2 hours after you leave.

Agreed.

[a_daerr]

Crate Fail! We cannot do the crate any more. He bent the bars, thrashed around in it, which knocked a coat rack down next to it. He pulled coat sleeves inside, destroyed one coat. I had little throw rugs with pee pads around the perimeter of the crate in case he pooped and knocked it out -- All were somehow dragged in and ripped to shreds. He also poped the lever and managed to push the crate tray bottom completely out of the crate. On top of that he broke a tooth. I see no future in the crate at all - we will have to work on alone training in other rooms of the house. The only positive thing was no poop, but he did pee in the belly band with pad in it. In the morning now he goes in the bedroom and lays on his bed when we are getting ready to leave.

I am so disappointed. I though we were making such progress with him, and its done a 180, where he is now injuring himself in the crate.

 

 

 

 

I was afraid this might happen. Physically pushing/forcing a grey into a crate is not good (even though it's easy to do when you're upset and frustrated). Some greys require a good deal of positive reinforcement crate-training before they are okay to be left alone in a crate for even short periods of time. The fact that he freaked out and injured his tooth makes me think the crate might be too stressful and traumatic at this point (maybe even forever). Letting him have free-roam won't work, considering all the trouble and destructiveness that happened the other times. Can you baby-gate him in an area like your kitchen, where the floors will be easy to clean if he has an accident? That would be my next step. And I agree with Batmom, dog-proof everything and muzzle. If it gets too severe, he may need an anti-anxiety medication to help temporarily.

[BatterseaBrindl]

 

Hope his tooth doesn't need vet attention.

 

I would dogproof well and then leave him out, muzzled. I would also do all the usual "alone training" things -- get him well worn out before you leave, practice leaving a lot, radio on, kong, if possible have someone check in and let him out @ 2 hours after you leave.

 

 

 

Get rid of the crate.

The poor boy is obviously petrified of it.

 

Dog-proof, muzzle and baby-gate into a room with no carpet.

 

You can get baby gates that mount right to the wall and that are very tall.

The flimsy pressure-mount ones are no good for a determined dog.

[Guest greytone]

 

 

Get rid of the crate.

The poor boy is obviously petrified of it.

 

Dog-proof, muzzle and baby-gate into a room with no carpet.

 

You can get baby gates that mount right to the wall and that are very tall.

The flimsy pressure-mount ones are no good for a determined dog.

Agree.

[Guest grey_dreams]

I'm so sorry for all of you. Please take him to let the vet look at his broken tooth. It could be extremely painful and might need extraction

 

Toley will need a lot of help to feel safe and calm when you leave him alone. Muzzle him and give him free roam of the house. I would also give him Rescue Remedy, a DAP collar or DAP diffuser, and 1-3 mg of melatonin. You can also get a decapeptide that is isolated from milk (Zylkene or De Stress) The goal is to not have to medicate, but for now he needs some help, and the training won't be effective if he is so anxious.

 

Then start at the beginning, and do very intensive alone training. It will take a solid couple of days (more if possible). Start with just putting your coat, grabbing your keys, going to the door, then (without leaving) putting the keys down, taking off your coat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. When he is calm, you go out the door, close the door, turn around and come back inside. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Then stay outside the door for 10 seconds. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Then stay outside the door for 30 seconds. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Then one minute. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Finally, get in the car, start it, then come back inside. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Then mix it up. Only put on the coat and grab the keys but don't leave. Then leave, start the car, come back in. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. After you've done this mixing up routine for about 2 hours, you may finally drive away, make a turn at the corner, and then come back home. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. So now you've spent about 4-5 hours working at alone training, you've left the house about 50-100 times (more is better!), and the longest he has been alone is about 5 minutes. If he hasn't had a meltdown yet, you can continue. Keep mixing up the amount of time you are gone, and keep interspersing a lot of repetitions of only going out the door and coming right back inside. Finally, if everything is going ok, you may try to stay away for 10-15 minutes.

 

At the end of the first day of alone training, you will have left the house at least 50-70 times (more is better!!), and the maximum time he has been alone is 10-15 minutes.

 

Continue this training on day 2. If everything is going ok, you can increase the time away in increments of 5, 10, 15, 20, 40, 60, 75, 90, 180 minutes. Remember to keep mixing up the times away. Once he is ok for 3-4 hours, he should be ok for 5-6 hours.

 

The external environment during your training is important. If the only time you are gone is during the day, then just train during the day. But if you are also gone during the evening, then you need to train during the evening too.

 

I had to follow this protocol for Zuki, who had terrible SA when he first came home. After 3 days of this, he was almost "cured" because he was bored senseless with me leaving and returning. It took a few more days training on the weekends and here and there to get him to 100%, but after 3 weeks he was fine. Some dogs do need another dog, but you have to try first with intensive alone training.

 

Good luck!

[Jackandgrey]

Excellent description of alone training above!!!!!!!

[marion]

How much exercise does your Grey get? I think it's very important to give your dog a good walk with some free run before leaving the house...an exercised dog is a calm dog at home. That had worked always for my hounds. I never ever crated any of my dogs...no need. Just some good exercise before leaving and leave him the run of the house. He' ll go to sleep to a place of HIS choice.

I think it's pretty normal, that many dogs get stressed and unhappy when forced into that tiny box in order to stay in there for

long hours hardly being able to move or even turn around.

Have luck...with good exercise before leaving and left free he'll get used to being alone.

Dogs need a fixed schedule of exercise, meals and sleeping times and they adapt very well...

[deboosh]

I just wanted to say I empathize with you, as we've adopted our girl only one month ago and have also hit a bump in the road. I know what you mean about the crate thing. We too made the mistake of putting her in it when leaving the house and at bed, and now she refuses to go in it at all. I am sitting on the fence right now about whether to crate or not. If we do decide to give it another shot, I know we have to first work on turning her aversion for it around before she will feel safe and comfortable in it. I think that is why someone mentioned giving Toley his meals in his crate, as well as his treats. Whatever you decide, try to stay calm when working with him. Our Bonnie sure does know when I start to feel frustrated, so paying close attention to how I feel is critical if I want to make any progress with her. If it helps, remember there are many of us struggling along with you. Good Luck!

[a_daerr]

All great info... Just wondering how the free roam people managed housetraining? Especially if you worked full time? One of my guys had crate anxiety, so we gave him free roam. He was impossible to housetrain after that. The accidents didn't stop until we installed a dog door.

Edited January 25, 2013 by a_daerr

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

I just wanted to say I empathize with you, as we've adopted our girl only one month ago and have also hit a bump in the road. I know what you mean about the crate thing. We too made the mistake of putting her in it when leaving the house and at bed, and now she refuses to go in it at all. I am sitting on the fence right now about whether to crate or not. If we do decide to give it another shot, I know we have to first work on turning her aversion for it around before she will feel safe and comfortable in it. I think that is why someone mentioned giving Toley his meals in his crate, as well as his treats. Whatever you decide, try to stay calm when working with him. Our Bonnie sure does know when I start to feel frustrated, so paying close attention to how I feel is critical if I want to make any progress with her. If it helps, remember there are many of us struggling along with you. Good Luck!

My boy also hated the crate, tried for a few days, he would p&p in it and it was a disaster. We never "forced" him into it, but we would trick/coax him in with treats, did the whole desensitizing thing, he just didn't want to. We left the crate up and open for about 7 months, he only went in it once on his own and laid down, we praised/treated him, but he never went in again.

 

I agree with pretty much everything everyone else is saying, I hope the situation improves soon.

 

All great info... Just wondering how the free roam people managed housetraining? Especially if you worked full time? One of my guys had crate anxiety, so we gave him free roam. He was impossible to housetrain after that. The accidents didn't stop until we installed a dog door.

We were lucky in that we adopted Dudley when we had a couple days off, we just took him out frequently, and he was housebroken by the time we returned to our work schedules. We did have a few strange episodes, he pooped on our bed twice, although he acted terrified of getting on furniture, so we believe it was some kind of anxiety issue. Once about 6 months ago, he looked me dead in the eye and lifted his leg and pissed on our screen door, but he was otherwise very easy to potty train.

[tydyelady]

Well, today was the first day we left him out again. No crate, ever again. It was definitely better than the last 2 crate days. I put pee pads down in spots where he might poop, and a belly band again with pad in it. And muzzle. He did poop, right on a pee pad, thankfully, and he peed in the belly band, but there were some positive things.

1. He did follow me to the door when I left (DH went out the garage door), but did not try to push out the door. I just left, no eye contact or anything.

2. Nothing was destroyed.

3. He did not try to knock down the baby gate to the kitchen.

I left the bedroom door open today, since he seemed to want to sleep on his bed in there, but I found he jumped up and all over our bed, which I did not want. So I think I will keep that door closed tomorrow.

I have been giving him Rescue Remedy, but I don't think it has done much.

I will be taking him into the vet to check on that tooth. Actually it is 2 teeth, both his canines. One is only a little chip at the bottom, no big deal. The other one seems about 1/4 of the tooth, so I want our vet to check it out.

Tomorrow is Friday, so will repeat what we did today, but then on the weekend will do LOTS of alone training.

Stay tuned!

 

Oh, also wanted to add, for those who are asking - he gets multiple walks. We do not have a fenced yard, so in the morning he goes out 3 times before we leave. One long walk as soon as DH gets up, then another short pee break after eating, then another walk up the block before we leave for work (we don't usually leave the house til 10ish). After work he gets another long walk, pee break after eating, and then before sleep.

Edited January 25, 2013 by tydyelady

[Batmom]

All great info... Just wondering how the free roam people managed housetraining? Especially if you worked full time? One of my guys had crate anxiety, so we gave him free roam. He was impossible to housetrain after that. The accidents didn't stop until we installed a dog door.

 

Once a dog tries to break out of a crate, you really can't crate again without risking the dog's life and a whole lot of sorrow. Certain kinds of crate fussing/anxiety, I tend to treat the same as a breakout attempt. Sounds like you treated it that way, too.

 

For a dog that can't be crated, I *might* try an ex-pen -- it's more open and gives the dog a bit of room to move around if he gets nervous, yet it still feels den-like. Otherwise, I use baby gates (if necessary, very tall ones, and always bolted to the wall), alone training, and frequent potty trips (if necessary, dog walker) until proven unnecessary.

 

Note that I would NOT try an ex-pen for OP's dog. Too anxious and frantic for that, at least at this point.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Batmom

[Guest grey_dreams]

I will be taking him into the vet to check on that tooth. Actually it is 2 teeth, both his canines. One is only a little chip at the bottom, no big deal. The other one seems about 1/4 of the tooth, so I want our vet to check it out.

 

Please make that vet visit ASAP. For a fracture with 1/4 of the tooth gone, the dentin and nerve will be exposed. Very painful and will get infected very fast. The vet needs to look at all his teeth and evaluate.

[marion]

All great info... Just wondering how the free roam people managed housetraining? Especially if you worked full time? One of my guys had crate anxiety, so we gave him free roam. He was impossible to housetrain after that. The accidents didn't stop until we installed a dog door.

 

First of all, it's important, that the dog gets used to a fixed schedule of walking and feeding times. A dog's digestion uses to take

more or less 11 hours. So if you feed for example at 8 o'clock in the evening, the dog is ready to 'empty out' at 7h in the morning.

If the dog has no digestive health issues, he can 'hold' it for a while after 7h in the morning. My Greys got their morning walk

and another good walk in the afternoon...no problems with pee or poop, except when they had soft-stool issues.

They could pee in the garden whenever they wanted, but preferred to distribute their pee during the walks.

Normally dogs don't like to soil their territory...if they do so something goes wrong.