Osteo Thread Part Vi

[TwiggysMom]

Congratulations Symbra!! I bet there is quite a celebration planned for you today! Time to break out the dancing 'naners and maracas:

 

:banana

 

One year is such a happy milestone - here's to many, many more!

[tydyelady]

I am so sorry to read of Daisy's passing. This thread is full of sadness.

 

And to Berk's mom - I too know of guilt, and I have to say no matter what course you take you will always second guess yourself. We sent Opie to the Bridge on Dec. 29, just a little over a month from his rib cancer diagnosis. Not a day goes by that I don't think of - What if...... , If only I tried ........, perhaps I should have insisted on more testing,,,,,. His last 2 weeks were filled with pain, and they will haunt me forever. So I get it, I understand. But we do the best we can, with the information and resources we have available to us at the time. Looking back - well, it is painful and full of what ifs. Please just concentrate on you did the best you could. That's what I am trying to do - and to know that he is pain free now.

[joejoesmom]

Guilt -- I am so good at this. Although Joe had 20 months, most of it very good, after his amputation; I still feel guilty about many things:

 

That he was panting for about 6 weeks before he started limping and I thought he was just hot (despite living in air conditioning). If I had recognized it for pain, he would have been diagnosed 6 weeks earlier and may have actually beat this disease.

 

That he didn't play much for 4 to 6 weeks before he limped and I didn't notice.

 

That I put him on a metronomic protocol (with Palladia) that has proved ineffective which had side effects for him. I didn't realize how much it depressed his spirit until we stopped it. He had a second primary tumor in the diagonal leg, but despite this, when we stopped the metronomic protocol his mood improved. So he had about a year on the metronomic protocol, feeling bad, and I didn't even recognize it. His last year could have been so much better for him.

 

That I became complacent after the first 6 months and KNEW that he would be one of the few to beat this. Because of this, I didn't focus all my energy on HIM. I know it isn't reasonable to totally put your life on hold and live 100 percent for your dog for 20 months, but I regret not doing so.

 

That as his pain increased during his last week, I was still so much in denial, that I thought it would magically get better. Yes, I talked to his oncologist on the phone and said his pain was worse -- but I should have taken him in for her to see him. I should have recognized on Friday when he was having trouble putting weight on the leg and kind of two-legging it that I should have taken him right in. But no, I didn't. So on Saturday morning when I woke up, Joe was not able to walk at all. He tried so hard to make it outside but was crying with the pain. He had to endure this for almost 3 hours -- the time it took for me to get friends with a van, get him to OSU, and have him euthanized. Dr. Couto had given me a shot of Buprenex for him just in case. I panicked so much that I didn't even think to give him this pain killing shot. This last day is what I regret most of all.

 

My point is, I think it is human nature to have regrets and to feel guilty about things that we can't control. My Joe was lucky, he had 20 months after his amputation. But I still blame myself for all of these things. I always will. It is just who I am.

 

Jane

Edited February 9, 2013 by joejoesmom

[BauersMom]

Guilt is one of those emotions that is so hard to deal with because it seems to have no real end, like it's always there in the back of your head - I have dreams of my dogs losing both front legs... I know what it's from, and I wish it would just stop already. I guess even though it sucks, it does help to know that all of us deal with bits of it, no matter what route we chose.

 

And go Symbra!!

[Charlies_Dad]

That is great to read of Symbra's 1 year mark!!!

[Guest snakes]

Glad to hear of Symbras anniversary

 

I know this may be a bit far fetched for some, but I believe that FedX has graced me in the best way possible since I had to let him go. Turns out shortly after I let him go something fantastic happened and we just found out that we will be adding to our little pack here with yet another girlie, this time of the human variety

 

I am sure that my body finally totally relaxed after letting FedX go and he is keeping watch in some form over us all

[krissn333]

Congratulations!

And, I can't believe I missed Symbra's ampiversary! A belated happy ampiversary to Symbra!

[45MPHK9]

I know this may be a bit far fetched for some, but I believe that FedX has graced me in the best way possible since I had to let him go. Turns out shortly after I let him go something fantastic happened and we just found out that we will be adding to our little pack here with yet another girlie, this time of the human variety

Congrats, Carol!

[TwiggysMom]

Glad to hear of Symbras anniversary

 

I know this may be a bit far fetched for some, but I believe that FedX has graced me in the best way possible since I had to let him go. Turns out shortly after I let him go something fantastic happened and we just found out that we will be adding to our little pack here with yet another girlie, this time of the human variety

 

I am sure that my body finally totally relaxed after letting FedX go and he is keeping watch in some form over us all

How wonderful for all of you! Congratulations! Will she be your first?

[GreytHurleyDawg]

I am just quickly popping in. I am still keeping my name despite losing Hurley last year...he was the GreytHurleyDawg...and that will never change.
So, I am here as a member again. We fostered and just adopted a 10.5 year old greyhound who was surrendered to our group in January.
Jimmy Sweatpants is so wonderful and it turns out he has osteo. We are considering Pamidronate (or radiation but the journey would be far) and would probably set up a fundraiser if we do.
I was asked if OSU could help and I think they can confirm the diagnosis but if we,are not entertaining the idea of amputation, is there anything they would be able to do? Thanks, with all the workups and decisions, my time is stretched thin. I appreciate your straightforward answers.

 

Here is the thread I posted locally about our new acquisition. I have not updated for his diagnosis yet until we know more of what will be going on:
http://www.gpawisconsin.org/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10783

 

Happy One Year Ampversary, Symbra!!

Good on you FedX for helping your mom out!

Many thoughts going out to Daisy's family, time is often very short with this diagnosis.

Edited February 14, 2013 by GreytHurleyDawg

[TwiggysMom]

Johanna, I can't believe you are going through this again so soon, and so shortly after Jimmy Sweatpants became part of your family.

 

I don't know whether OSU would recommend specific palliative protocols without seeing him in person. I do know that there are a lot of things that could potentially keep him comfy and happy for a good while longer.

 

Jimmy certainly did manage to find the right people to be with at this time in his life, that much I know for sure!

[Guest snakes]

How wonderful for all of you! Congratulations! Will she be your first?

She will indeed, at least of the human variety

I already expect UPS to keep a watchfull eye over her! She always did for FedX!

 

Sorry to hear about Jimmy, I hope he remains comfortable for many months to come. We found pamidronate well worth the longer drives and long appointment time, it worked wonders and very quickly. Just expect them to drink and pee like nothing else for the 12 hours or so afterwards!

[krissn333]

No! Not Jimmy Sweatpants too!

 

Oh Johanna I'm so very sorry

[Charlies_Dad]

Johanna, I am very sorry you are going through this again with Jimmy. This friggin disease is so evil and takes so many. I hope he has many good months left.

[GreytHurleyDawg]

I don't know if this is true for everyone but, having been through Osteo once, I feel like it isn't that much of an ordeal in this situation because he is so new to us and he is above the age of 10. I am only focusing on the fact that we do have quality time with our new friend and we will try our best to make him feel loved and happy....and indulged!

We are going to our first Pamidronate treatment in the morning and therefore we decided to set up a personal fundraising page. I will post a full story with pictures when time becomes available later but the page is here for you to share or check out:

 

http://www.gofundme.com/238lw0

 

Thanks for all the greyt support and knowing shoulders to lean on!!!!

[Zoolady]

Update on Ben.

 

The tumor on Ben's hip has grown from the initial size of about half the size of a golf ball to almost the size of a baseball. The location is mostly on the top of his back, in front of the hip bone and down a little to the side. He continues to eat, wag his tail and be almost himself. He no longer gets on the bed or the couch but will, with some effort, get on the love seat.

 

It was time for a rabies shot but his regular vet wrote a wonderful letter "postponing" the injection.

 

I've been home for two days and did notice that sometimes he won't use the leg coming in the stops or has dragged the foot once or twice coming in. Today he seemed a little restless and followed me from room to room wherever I went. My immediate thought was pain. I called his oncologist to see about upping his meds and he won't be back until Monday.

 

Scott called our regular vet who is aware of everything and she said to increase his Tramadol to 2 or 2 1/2 tablets every eight hours and to call her Monday. He was getting two every twelve hours but the instructions says can give every eight so I think the oncologist would approve too. He is still taking the Prilosec in the morning and the 75mg Rimadyl twice a day and the Gabapentin 100mg once a day.

 

Although it has gone to his lungs, the only time he pants is when outside in the sun when it's eighty something degrees. When he cools off coming in, the panting stops.

 

We've been keeping his weight up with satin balls but he finally turned his nose up at those but does eat his regular food plus little treats at pill time.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I'm sorry Ben is having a bit of discomfort.

 

Your vet is right about the tramadol. Your vet (or oncologist) might not have authorized it, but you have lots of room to go up on the gabapentin. And it doesn't particularly interact with the other meds, so there's not that problem.

 

Gabapentin has a fairly short half-life. If Ben is getting it only once a day, it's wearing off completely before he gets his next dose. My vet has authorized 900mg a day, and I know other greyhound owners have been told that, too. You don't want to go up a whole lot all at once, but I'd give him 100mg every 8 hours for a day or two, then go up even more if necessary. (It takes a day or so to get up to full effectiveness.) But if Ben gets it every 8 hours, it shouldn't wear off between doses.

 

Ohio State says gabapentin is more effective in smaller doses, more often, rather than a big dose once a day (and Ben isn't getting a big dose). My vet authorized 900mg; my Sam (67 pounds) is getting 700mg right now--200mg breakfast, 100mg lunch, 200mg dinner, 200mg bedtime. This gives me room to add the other 200mg if he's having a bad day.)

 

I suggest you call your regular vet tomorrow and ask about upping the gabapentin. (Also note: larger doses of tramadol have been known to make some greyhounds appear anxious--including panting. That might make you think Ben's not getting pain relief, even if he is.)

[45MPHK9]

Gabapentin has a fairly short half-life. If Ben is getting it only once a day, it's wearing off completely before he gets his next dose. My vet has authorized 900mg a day, and I know other greyhound owners have been told that, too.

62 pound Bee Wiseman took 900mg a day (in addition to Deramaxx and Tramadol) at the end. Sorry that Ben is struggling.

[Zoolady]

Thank you for the information. We will definitely give Ben more Gabapentin. I'm not sure if our vet is working this Saturday but will give him more anyway as we're scheduled to speak with her Monday.

 

She's treated our animals for years but had to pass the torch when Wonder got his osteo and then Ben. She certainly stays on top of things though and gets every report from the oncologist. He missed giving her one and she wasn't happy. I don't think he will miss another. :>)

[TwiggysMom]

I'm sorry to hear Ben's tumor has grown so much and that he has had some increased pain. It really does sound like you've got a lot of room to enhance his pain control.

 

I'll be hoping to hear that he is feeling more comfortable in a couple days!

[NeylasMom]

Yep, I would start with increasing the Gabapentin to 100 mg 3x/day rather than the Tramadol. Hope that takes care of any discomfort Ben might be having.

[Zoolady]

Will increase his Gabapentin. How does one tell the vet s/he's doing it wrong?

[KF_in_Georgia]

Is the problem with your vet? Or with the oncologist?

 

Sometimes, vets in general practice are worried about long-term side effects. Oncologists know that side effects are less important in dogs with osteo. But controlling the pain--and staying on top of it--is the most important thing for you with Ben.

 

If one of your vets is better about the meds than the other, you might play one off against the other. Or refer the more troublesome vet to OSU (although there's a consultation fee). My vet actually listens well to what people say here on Greytalk when I repeat things to him; but he has a years-long history of hearing me relay comments from here and knowing how on-target the comments have been. When I first mentioned gabapentin to my vet, he had no experience with it. But he went off to read-up about it on-line, then came back to me with a written script.

 

Remind whichever vet you need to that your concern with Ben is pain relief for good quality of life. You're not worried about long-term effects (although I don't know of any for gabapentin). Remind him/her, if necessary, that the Greytalk forum is a compendium of information about dealing with cancer in hundreds of greyhounds, and you'll take whatever useful information you can find to keep Ben comfortable.

 

In this case, just tell your vet that Ben was uncomfortable, it was a weekend with no oncologist you could reach, and for Ben's sake you took advice from other greyhound owners.

[45MPHK9]

You have to speak for your dog who is dealing with a very painful disease.

 

Just tell the vet what you've read here. My vet had never prescribed Gabapentin before Bee Wiseman. I told him what I was reading here. He went to his office to research dosages and indications, and then came right back with a script. As her pain increased, I'd call my vet and he'd increase the dosages. A good vet will listen to you.

 

Hugs to you and to Ben.

[KF_in_Georgia]

One thing to keep in mind: it's easier to head-off pain than to take it away once it makes its appearance. My Sam gets meds four times a day: breakfast, lunch, dinner, bedtime. Sometimes he falls asleep in the evening. Even though he's sleeping peacefully when I'm ready to go to bed, I wake him up to give him his bedtime meds. If I don't, he'll be in pain by breakfast, when he's 12 hours (or more) away from his dinner meds. (And if I go to bed early, I set an alarm for midnight so I can wake up, give him pills, and go back to sleep.)

 

I bought one of those pill sorters that covers four doses a day for a week. Sam is on lots of meds (for thyroid, diarrhea, ulcer, arthritis, UTI, LP): some are four times a day, some are fewer times a day, and one is every other day. The sorter makes it easier (and faster) to give odd quantities of pills at odd times of the day. Even better: if the pocket is empty, then I know for sure I gave him his meds. (And the pill sorter makes it safer for me to be giving him meds when I'm half asleep.)

 

Edited February 23, 2013 by KF_in_Georgia