Osteo Thread Part Vi

[TwiggysMom]

I am so sorry that it was Ben's time to go. You all fought a great fight. I am glad it was peaceful and that you are at peace with it.

Run free, Ben!

 

 

Jean, I am very sorry to hear about Gunner's diagnosis. It is such a hard thing to comprehend at first. Whichever route you take, we'll be here for you with support, experience and information. I would have been a mess without the Osteo threads.

[krissn333]

Jean, very sorry to hear of Gunner's diagnosis. I went the palliative route with one of my osteo hounds (we did pamidronate infusions with him that helped tremendously), and I went the amp/chemo route with my other osteo hound. I truly feel that the choices I made with each of them were the right choices for the individual dog.

 

All this to say, whatever you choose for Gunner will be the right choice. Welcome to the club that no one wants to be a part of, but everyone is grateful to have

[Guest FawnFan]

First I want to apologize for just jumping in and not acknowledging Ben's passing. Ben's Mom, I truly am sorry to hear that Ben lost his battle. Thank you for lovingly caring for him through this wretched disease and helping him to peacefully cross over. I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers and hope that you're able to find peace in knowing he's not suffering any longer. RIP Ben.

 

Next, thank you everyone for your words, your support and welcoming me to the club no one wants to join. At the moment, I'm still a little overwhelmed with everything. I still can't believe he has this awful disease. Last night he was running around the house like a crazy man, at his usual bewitching time of 9 PM, as if nothing's wrong. I do have a few obstacles to overcome and my guess is it is going to take some extra strength, grace and determination. I'm committed to making sure he is as comfortable as possible though. Given all of this, I may be here looking for support more times than not. Again I will say thank you now and a million times later too.

 

And if I could share, I have some immediate obstacles and your input is welcomed. My Vet is new to us as of this past Monday. I won't go into the details yet during one of the two times I've had to take Gunner to the Vet, we ended up at Univ of Penn's ER because he collapsed in the Vet's office. They think he threw a clot in his spine. I'm not sure the new Vet is greyhound savvy exactly. He mentioned a previous greyhound patient who had bone cancer yet I didn't question him because at the time, I was really trying to wrap my brain around the fact that he just casually told me that my pup might have bone cancer (yes casually mentioned it as if Gunner had just a broken toe). He then rattled off my treatment options as if it was an easy fix. Not trying to complain yet provide the facts of what happened.

 

Given that experience, there are two things I'm considering here. One, I'm considering moving Gunner's case to another Vet in the practice. I've seen her three times now with my older greyhound Dawson. Dawson also hates the Vet and has white coat syndrome. During the first appointment I asked the Vet Tech to ask the Vet to remove her coat before she came in and she did. Every time since she has done the same and this past time, she even read up on a corn treatment I mentioned to the receptionist and reviewed his file in detail before our appointment. I was surprised yet pleased because my old guy is one of those big lovable, please protect me Momma types. And I loved that she reviewed his chart prior to us arriving, asked questions and offered advice about the corn treatment I wanted to try. A concern/not sure how to handle this is, Gunner's current Vet is the owner of the practice. Don't want to piss him off yet don't feel as comfortable with him as I do with Dawson's Vet.

 

The other thing I'm considering is collecting all of my research from everything everyone has provided here and then schedule a consult appointment with her. One without Gunner, if possible. Despite my best efforts to get Gunner in and out of the Vet on Monday in the least amount of time, we ended up being there for two hours. I wasn't pleased at all. I thought his tongue was going to grow to be very long and/or he was going to collapse again. I'd be willing to take Gunner in again to see her at some point, just not this week.

 

Again I thank you for your help and support as I navigate this new road.

[Charlies_Dad]

Jean, it sounds to me you are more comfortable with the other vet in the practice and there is nothing wrong with that. At our local vet, we have our preference and always see him with our pups 99.9% of the time. I would request an appointment with her and by all means bring along the information of the various options/treatments for Osteo as some vets haven't heard of everything, e.g. Gabapentin to help with pain. Also having a one on one with her without Gunner makes sense to me although she likely will want to see him at some point as she was not there for the initial diagnosis. As this disease unfortunately means a lot of vet visits no matter the path you take, you and Gunner need to be as comfortable as possible with whomever your vet is.

[Guest FawnFan]

Thank you Kyle.

[vjgrey]

As this disease unfortunately means a lot of vet visits no matter the path you take, you and Gunner need to be as comfortable as possible with whomever your vet is.

First, I'm so sorry to hear about Gunner's diagnosis. It's been over a year since I lost my Gabe, and I still feel that overwhelmed, punched in the gut feeling when I think about the day we found out.

 

Second, I totally agree with Kyle - it's extremely important that both you and Gunner feel comfortable with his vet.

 

If you live in an area with access to a Veterinary Oncologist and can afford one, I'd highly, highly recommend getting a referral. Ours was worth his weight in gold, and if I'd had to work three jobs to afford him, I would have. I also found it interesting that the clinic itself had a totally different atmosphere - my Gabe was so vet phobic he'd try to climb into my lap, but he was never scared at the oncology clinic. Not sure if that's universal, but I got the impression that they took a different approach with very ill dogs.

 

If you stay with a general practice vet, you'll want to be very on top of advocating for/insisting on the full range of pain meds. A lot of vets who don't specialize in cancer are either unfamiliar with or uncomfortable with the heavy doses and number of meds needed to control Osteo pain.

Edited March 21, 2013 by vjgrey

[NeylasMom]

First, I'm so sorry to hear about Gunner's diagnosis. It's been over a year since I lost my Gabe, and I still feel that overwhelmed, punched in the gut feeling when I think about the day we found out.

 

Second, I totally agree with Kyle - it's extremely important that both you and Gunner feel comfortable with his vet.

 

If you live in an area with access to a Veterinary Oncogist and can afford one, I'd highly, highly recommend getting a referral. Ours was worth his weight in gold, and if I'd had to work three jobs to afford him, I would have. I also found it interesting that the clinic itself had a totally different atmosphere - my Gabe was so vet phobic he'd try to climb into my lap, but he was never scared at the oncology clinic. Not sure if that's universal, but I got the impression that they took a different approach with very ill dogs.

 

If you stay with a general practice vet, you'll want to be very on top of advocating for/insisting on the full range of pain meds. A lot of vets who don't specialize in cancer are either unfamiliar with or uncomfortable with the heavy doses and number of meds needed to control Osteo pain.

 

I'm sorry you're now a member of this "club".

[greysmom]

I'm so sorry for all the pups that have had to join recently. How I wish that cancer would just GO AWAY!

 

We reached a milestone today. It's been 17 months since Dude passed over the Bridge, yet we only just today took all of his pill schedules and regimens off the kitchen bulletin board. I miss my boy so much.........

[Zoolady]

I want to thank everyone for their kind thoughts and words. We can truly feel the love, support and sense of loss that everyone has when one of our pups leaves this earth. The house is so quiet even with three still here. I had to put Ben's meds away as I kept reaching for them, not to mention his dish. I believe the other three know as they are very mopey.

 

I'm sorry to see Gunner is a new member. This is the best place to be while dealing with this monster.

 

FawnFan: Ben was not a big tail wagger, but I can share that every time we went to the oncologist's office, Ben got out of the car and his tail started wagging and would wag inside while he greeted everyone. They all loved him and even the office people wanted to know when he was there so they could come down, give scritches, kisses and say hello.

[TwiggysMom]

Jean, I would just call and ask for an appointment with the vet you are comfortable with. As Kyle and Valerie said, it is so important to be comfortable with the person who you are working with.

 

I also agree that it would be worthwhile to at least to check into a veterinary oncologist. My regular vet is awesome, but when I "fired" Twiggy's first oncologist, my vet didn't feel comfortable with managing Twiggy's metronomic protocol, and really wanted me to go to another oncologist - I'm glad I did, he is very knowledgeable and sensible.

 

 

Chris, I remember the day you posted about Dude. It sucked the air right out of me, I just couldn't believe it.

 

 

I'm so glad to hear that Twiggy is doing well. I'm getting ready for Mountain Hounds and I was thinking of her so I thought I'd check to see if there were updates...glad that earlier injury turned out to be unrelated to her osteo. Way to go, Twiggy!

 

Hi Teresa! It's hard to think so far ahead, as you know, 9 weeks is a very long time when Twiggy is already 19 months post, but we will absolutely be there so long as Twiggy is still doing well. In the meantime, I just booked a room for GIG next month, and am really looking forward to it. I hope to see you at MH in May!

Edited March 22, 2013 by TwiggysMom

[Charlies_Dad]

We reached a milestone today. It's been 17 months since Dude passed over the Bridge, yet we only just today took all of his pill schedules and regimens off the kitchen bulletin board. I miss my boy so much.........

Chris I remember too well when Dude passed. Just as Wendy described, the shock of it even from afar was like the air was sucked out of my lungs. Dude was a special boy and is greatly missed. Edited March 22, 2013 by Charlies_Dad

[Guest FawnFan]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. They are really helpful especially how the oncologist offices seem to have this "we're really nice here and love greyhounds" being broadcasted at levels only the hounds can hear. And Wendy what a brilliant idea, just call and make an appointment with the Vet I want to see (doh... that's easy enough... not sure why I was making it harder).

 

And I'm sorry to the other new members too. Will be keeping you all in my thoughts, especially the guy who is in surgery this morning.

 

Thank you to everyone who has already been through this and for continuing to offer your support and insights here via these threads. I'm grateful you're all here even though I'm not in the thick of it yet. It just nice really nice to know you're all there when the time comes.

 

Thanks again and have a great weekend,

Jean

[teri_d]

asking for prayers for my friend jennifer and her beautiful greyhound cammie in georgia -- cammie has osteo and the vet has been called to come monday after work to the house. jennifer's dh is deployed in the air force serving our country (thank you!!) -- jennier has 2 little ones at home - any advice here on how to help little 3 yr old dd deal with this?? baby son is too little. also second grey in the house will mourn, i know. my thoughts and prayers are with them this weekend - and my heart will hurt with jennifer on monday. thanks all - no family like the gt family for prayers and support - all of us on here "get it".

[Guest snakes]

So sorry to hear about Ben and Gunner, mnay strengths to the both of your families.

 

Teri_d, I don't have any advice for your friend, however you might contact yankeegreyhound, when her pup passed from osteo her son was young and she may have some advice. If memory serves me right (double check with her) she made a sort of memory box with her son and included in it a pawprint ornament (it was near xmas) that they made together. Although there may not be time for that, maybe some sort of activity that they can do together and talk about her pups disease and passing may help?

[gracegirl]

asking for prayers for my friend jennifer and her beautiful greyhound cammie in georgia -- cammie has osteo and the vet has been called to come monday after work to the house. jennifer's dh is deployed in the air force serving our country (thank you!!) -- jennier has 2 little ones at home - any advice here on how to help little 3 yr old dd deal with this?? baby son is too little. also second grey in the house will mourn, i know. my thoughts and prayers are with them this weekend - and my heart will hurt with jennifer on monday. thanks all - no family like the gt family for prayers and support - all of us on here "get it".

I'm sorry for your friend and her family. How brave of her to do this alone, as we all know its just devastating.

 

Her other hound might just be okay. I was sure that Fenway would be terribly lost without Grace but it turned out that he's just fine. I told him what happened when I got home from the e-vet and while he was mopey, he had hand eked her loss much better than I expected he would.

[Charlies_Dad]

Teri, I am sorry to read about you friend Jennifer's pup. That is terrible that she is going through this alone and must be very difficult. They will be in our thoughts.

[krissn333]

Has anyone heard from Mary Jo? I'm wondering how Spud is doing...

[teri_d]

jennifer says thank you all so much for your prayers -- they are obviously working because dh got to call home last night and they got to talk about it! thank you all and keep the prayers coming today please!!!! teri

[NeylasMom]

Has anyone heard from Mary Jo? I'm wondering how Spud is doing...

She posted on Facebook in early March that he had passed the 3 month mark and was doing really well and they celebrated his birthday mid March.

[krissn333]

That's great! Thanks for the info, Jen

[Guest FawnFan]

Met with my local Vet, Dr. Jennifer today. We came to an agreement on lots of my concerns. Most important, we're going to work together to keep Gunner comfortable. Starting the Tramadol and Gabapentin tonight with his last small meal before bed. She also is going to work with me to minimize his visit time there given his fear of the car and the vet's office. Solution - first appointments in a shift so we can get in and get out. Will also be working with the acupuncturist for pain management and his decreasing appetite. She also said she'll come to the house to help him cross, instead of me bringing him in, if she is in the office when the time arrives. We also have a plan for a leg break.

 

I feel better yet still anxious as I feel this is the calm before the storm. Part of the anxiety is because his appetite is changing every third or fourth meal. We've moved past turkey breast, sweet potatoes and kibble; to turkey breast, rice and sweet potatoes; to turkey breast and rice; to turkey breast; to hamburger meat and rice; to mainly hamburger with just a little bit of rice tonight. I think his small meal tonight will be just hamburger meat. Peanut butter; turkey, kibble, rice, sweet potatoes and biscuits are out now. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to hearing them.

 

Thanks for listening and thanks for your help. Have a great night,

Jean

 

ETA: G's fear of the car and vet's office.

Edited March 28, 2013 by FawnFan

[krissn333]

His appetite MIGHT improve once he's got the meds on board and his pain is managed.

 

Glad you've got a plan. I know it's unpleasant to think about, but, it's very smart to think ahead

[KF_in_Georgia]

Ensure liquid is popular here. Sam gets half a bottle in the morning, the rest at night. I usually pour it over his kibble, but he'll often lick it out of the bowl and leave the kibble. Sam doesn't have cancer, but he has a number of health issues, is on gabapentin, tramadol, methocarbamol (muscle relaxer), thyroxine, metronidazole, cephalexin, doxepin, and Prilosec--and he has an ulcer. (Surprise!) Sam also likes flavored yogurt (Yoplait strawberry/banana or peach--it's low fat and sweetened with sugar rather than corn syrup). Since he adores bread and peanut butter, he sometimes gets a peanut butter sandwich, cut up into bite-sized pieces. (He'll eat them all.) When he turns up his nose at the peanut butter sandwich, I'll add peach preserves.

 

He normally eats kibble, but sometimes gets rice and chicken for dinner, which he still loves. I get canned beef-flavored dog food to add to his kibble--just a tablespoon or two. I refrigerate the can between meals, so when I get it out of the fridge, I put a couple of tablespoons on a paper plate and microwave to make it easier to mix into his food. (When I add the warmed dog food, he eats every piece of kibble.)

 

Sam gets pills four times a day, so he eats four times a day. He gets his pills on a rolled-up piece of deli-sliced turkey; the pills are glued in place with a bit of peanut butter. When he started giving me grief over taking his pills, I got crafty: before I feed him his pills, I get out one of his favorite, smelly treats. I put the rolled up pills/turkey/PB in his mouth. Before he can consider biting into the middle and spitting out pills, I put the treat under his nose. He's so worried that his sister will get to the treat before he does that he'll swallow the pills down quickly. (He takes something like 22 pills a day, so he's usually taking between 4 and 6 pills at a time.)

 

I won't fight him over meals or pills. I put food down; if he doesn't eat it, I put the dish out of reach of the other dog (who's getting fat). I'll pull the dish out at the next meal and add something else to it: Ensure at breakfast, yogurt at lunch. I've considered starting to pulverize his kibble in a food processor and mixing it with the Ensure or the yogurt; he picks up pieces of kibble, mouths them, then spits them back out. (I don't think it's his teeth, though, because at other meals he eats everything.) Grinding up his kibble might lead to him swallowing a bit more of it.

 

If he spits out pills, I try putting the remnant into another piece of turkey or cheese. If he spits that out again, I let it go. He can get more pills at his next meal. (This is a boy that clenches his jaw when you try to open his mouth, and he'll snap his teeth down on your fingers if you try to pill him.) My goal is to keep him as comfortable as I can, and stress-free. And not too skinny. When one of those things fails, the vet and I will re-evaluate where we stand.

 

Good luck with Gunner. You want to keep weight on him, and if you have to feed him macaroni and cheese to keep him happy and eating--well, I've heard of others doing that, too. Oh, and whipped cream in a can (I squirt it over the kibble). And that dried, shake-on Parmesan cheese. Don't think about what flavors we think work well together. (Sam is eating Salmon and Sweet Potato kibble topped with peach yogurt.) They say a dog's sense of smell is much stronger than his sense of taste, so go for smelly. (Sardines and mackerel are good. And Sam likes tuna, too.)

 

P.S. Turning up his nose at something one time is no guarantee that he'll do the same thing at an identical meal a day or two later.

Edited March 28, 2013 by KF_in_Georgia

[TwiggysMom]

Having a plan and a cooperative vet is so helpful for peace of mind, especially with something so unsettling as osteo.

 

I haven't dealt with the loss of appetite in a dog in a long time, but definitely agree that whatever you can give Gunner to keep calories going in is good. When my old cattle dog was not wanting to eat, he never turned down McDonald's cheeseburgers or scrambled eggs w/ hamburger and cottage cheese. I also think that once Gunner is settled in on his med regimen, his appetite may come back.

[Guest FawnFan]

Thank you ladies for your insights.

 

You know the Vet said to me yesterday he might not be eating because he's in pain. That didn't make logical sense to me yet I guess that's what greyhounds (maybe dogs and cats in general) do when they're in pain. Now I'm hearing it again and I'll accept it and work harder to ensure I stay ahead of it now. I also was thinking I need to get the pain med schedule down so there is no lapse and maybe even an overlap. I was thinking this because he's worse in the morning with the eating... so I'll be getting up at 3 or 4 and taking care of this then. Whatever it takes to make it easier for both of us.

 

And great suggestion about the Ensure. I did get him yogurt and cottage cheese yesterday - haven't tried it yet though. I also heard tummy rumbles earlier... I haven't seen loose bowels yet, it might be coming though. He's usually sensitive (meaning he'll get the runs) to food changes. I'm just trying to keep food in him because each bottle says, "with food"... ugh.

 

I may be going to McD's here shortly to get a take out order for him. He is eating those frozen cocktail meatballs thankfully (I heat them in the microwave for about a minute). They're perfect as pill pockets.

 

The acupuncturist said she has a point for stimulating the appetite; we'll be doing that on Monday. Until then I'm hoping I can find something he'll consistently eat. This morning the only thing that worked was a bigger jar of beef and mixed veggies baby food plus six cocktail meatballs. He turned his nose up at a pb&j sandwich, spaghetti and tomato sauce, plain noodles, hard boiled egg, poached salmon and the hamburger and rice. Frustrating to say the least... it has been a long week.

 

I forgot about mac and cheese. I'm dairy free so I've forgotten about the "cheese" foods. I'll have to pick some up at the store along with some American cheese too. I forgot to get that at the deli yesterday when I got the lunch meat.

 

Thanks again everyone. Have a great day today!