Osteo Thread Part Vi

[Guest undergreysspell]

I 'm so very sorry ..hugs and peace for you and Gia .

[tydyelady]

Hugs and good thoughts with you today, as you send Gia on her journey. I totally understand your decision, having just made it just 10 days ago. We did have 4 people there for Opie, So your xishDH loves her, he should be there. Peace to you all.

Edited January 8, 2013 by tydyelady

[RaineysMom]

I'm so very sorry about Gia :( sending many, MANY prayers on her way to the Bridge :cry1

 

and sending prayers for Twiggy, too :( :Hope

[BauersMom]

I'm so sorry. Godspeed Gia.

[krissn333]

[4My2Greys]

I'm so sorry your having to say goodbye to Gia, but I'm glad you chose to let your xishDH spend time with her and be a part of letting her go.

Hugs and strength to the both of you

[45MPHK9]

Godspeed, Gia. I'm so sorry.

[TwiggysMom]

I am so sorry. I wish you all peace and comfort in her passing.

[giadog]

Gia is gone; her passing was peaceful and full of love whispers in her ear. DH made it as difficult for me as possible, but at least waited till after she was gone.

[teri_d]

im so sorry that gia is gone - and sorry for your situation, too. it is the highest act of love you can give them to release them from their pain - but it sure hurts -- hugs to you

[krissn333]

I'm so sorry...I know it's easier said than done, but don't let him get you down. He's lucky you allowed him to even be there.

[NeylasMom]

I'm so sorry, especially that DH made it difficult for you. I let Neyla go at home and when we were taking her body out to be transported so she could be cremated my neighbor happened to be on his way in. He made some stupid comment, not in malice but because he was caught off guard I'm sure and that one little comment has stuck with me all of this time. It tainted for me what was an otherwise reasonably peaceful if gut-wrenchingly hard experience. All of this to say I cannot imagine dealing with what I imagine you did on top of the actual loss. I wish I could give you a huge giant hugs.

[MP_the4pack]

[Charlies_Dad]

I am sorry that Gia is gone.

[Zoolady]

Ben Update

 

My apologies...this may get long.

 

I have been laying low for a while and am so sorry for all the losses lately. It just breaks my heart every time one of our precious babies goes to the Bridge and I cry too.

 

Today, however, Ben has had changes I need to share. Oh, he also had his 11th birthday November 29.

 

Mini recap for Ben: It's been a year this month since his osteo diagnosis (pelvis) and we've done 6 pounds of chemo and pamidronate treatments. We tried oral chemo after that which didn't agree with him and stopped everything except the Rimadyl in September. We were giving one every few days and he seemed fine. Around mid December we upped it as he was being more active (running and playing) and the family was coming for the holidays.

 

December 31 we noticed a soft lump which today is now oblong, hard and about the size of a half a golf ball. We took him to the new oncologist at the same hospital that replaced his first oncologist after she went into a different practice.

 

He did a needle aspirate to the lump and concluded with it was related to he cancer in the hip. Xrays revealed that the bone has deteriorated a lot.

 

The doctor determined Ben was not a candidate for new radiation therapy like they use on humans for brain tumors that is available in Gainesville which would have required a week away from home.

 

The xrays also revealed small nodules in his lungs which probably won't bother him for two to four months.

 

The doctor interned under Doctor Cuto at OSU so that was a big plus. He will contact him and go over Ben's case.

 

He said we could do regular radiation for pain, continue with the pamidronate which was strongly recommended and restart new chemo.

 

Scott and I talked about it and feel we've put him through a lot already. We are thinking of continuing the pamidronate once a month and then adding the new pain meds. It just seems like a lot so fast. Yes, Ben was struggling to lay down there but the floors were slick. I did mention he didn't have a problem at home laying down.

 

Anyhow, this is what he prescribed:

 

Up the 75 mg Rimadyl to one every 12 hours: Tramadol, 50 mg 1 1/2 to 2 tablets every 12 to 8 hours; Gabapentin 100 mg, 1 capsule every 24 hours; Prilosec OTC 20 mg tablets 1 every 24 hours.

 

His next appointment for the pamidronate will include a complete blood count and chemistry profile.

 

He was doing so good I guess I just thought it would go on forever.

 

What do you think about all this medicine at this point?

 

Oh, he's eating fine and acting like there's not a care in the world.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I think Ben's dosage of gabapentin is way too low, and I suspect other people will here will advise the same thing. A dose of gabapentin doesn't even last 24 hours, so your boy has no pain relief from the gabapentin for part of the day. Also, OSU says small doses of gabapentin repeated more often are more effective than single large doses (which your boy isn't getting even now). I don't know Ben's current weight, but my 65-pound boy could have as much as 900mg a day, in doses of 300mg given three times a day.

 

Gabapentin isn't a narcotic. It works on pain signals to the brain. You'd want to build the dose up over time: with Sam (not cancer pain, but he was hurting), I started with 100mg capsules, twice a day; after 24 hours, we went to three times a day. After a couple of days (it can take a couple of days to get up to full strength), I upped Sam's dose to two 100mg capsules at dinner, but left him at 1 capsule the other times. When he was fine on that but needed more relief, I upped his dose to two pills at another meal. Currently, Sam's getting two 100mg capsules, three times a day. We have room to increase again if we need to.

 

ETA: Building the dose over time is simply to keep Ben from staggering under a sudden large dose.

Edited January 10, 2013 by KF_in_Georgia

[45MPHK9]

Gabapentin 100 mg, 1 capsule every 24 hours

Bee Wiseman was on Deramaxx, Tramadol, and 900mg of Gabapentin daily as her cancer progressed. 100mg of Gabapentin seems way too low to me.

Edited January 10, 2013 by 45MPHK9

[Zoolady]

Thank you for the responses. Ben's weight today was 69.5 pounds.

 

I guess it's just hard for me to wrap my head around he "needs" all this medicine when he seemed fine except for our increasing the Rimadyl.

 

When our Wonder was going through his osteo, we upped all kinds of stuff but could recognize he was uncomfortable.

 

So you think we should go with the low dose for now and give him all the meds with the knowledge when he's really hurting to then raise the dosage? I guess I'm really having a problem taking the first step down that road that leads to the Bridge.

[NeylasMom]

Yes, that dose of Gabapentin isn't likely to do anything much. You should decide what pain meds to give based on what you see, although I would keep in mind that I think these guys learn to tolerate the ongoing pain from bone cancer and hide it from us so if he's not his totally normal active self, he probably has some pain. If it were me and I felt like he had any pain, I would start with Gabapentin and Tramadol every 8 hrs at their lowest doses each (probably 100 mg and 50 mg respectively). If that didn't work, I would either add in the Rimadyl at it's lowest dose, or increase incrementally one or both of the other 2. Keep in mind that Gaba and Tram are easier to tolerate at higher doses generally and don't carry the risk of organ issues or stomach issues, but since you're dealing with a terminal illness you don't have to worry about side effects as much unless the doses of any are getting really up there. If that makes sense.

 

As far as other treatments, that's your call, but if Ben tolerated the pamidronate really well and doesn't mind the vet visits for the treatments, I don't see any harm in doing those and they may very well help a lot. You could do them as needed depending on what you see, or routinely to try to stay ahead of pain. With lung mets, I personally wouldn't pursue something like chemo that could cause ill effects but that's just me.

 

ETA: Just adding this after reading JJng's post that I do agree about what she says about pain management and I realize my answer may sound conservative - I was just getting at you know your dog and how he acts at home. Neyla often had a little pain around x-rays that would resolve quickly, but generally I could tell she wasn't painful because she would race around the condo playing and doing her spins. The one thing I learned the hard way was to know the amounts I could increase dosages and have the meds on hand so I could do it immediately. I was caught a couple of times stuck because it was a wkd and I couldn't reach a vet so it sounds like in that regard you're set. Sorry, I'm not making much sense. Have been working all night and am super tired. By the way (although most importantly) I'm sorry that you're seeing signs that things ar eprogressing with Ben.

Edited January 10, 2013 by NeylasMom

[JJNg]

I guess it's just hard for me to wrap my head around he "needs" all this medicine when he seemed fine except for our increasing the Rimadyl.

It sounds like you're a little reluctant to start all the new meds because he's not acting very painful? With an OSA diagnosis, I feel it's better to get aggressive with the pain control sooner rather than later. Pain management works best when you can stay ahead of the pain, rather than trying to get it back under control after the dog has gotten obviously more painful, especially since dogs tend to be stoic about chronic, ongoing pain anyway. Most of these meds are pretty safe, with few side effects, so IMO, it doesn't hurt to start them early in a case of OSA.

 

I guess I'm really having a problem taking the first step down that road that leads to the Bridge.

I wouldn't necessarily view starting the additional meds as a step toward the Bridge. They're just a useful part of management of the symptoms.

[Zoolady]

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions. Must remove head from sand and face this. We will give the medicines. I must accept this and do what's best. Today seems like a good day to start. I can look at him and tell something's wrong. Thinking perhaps it's from the anesthesia for xrays yesterday or maybe sore from being positioned.

 

He doesn't mind the vet and when doing his former chemo and treatments, he would get out of the car and start wagging his tail. Of course he loves the attention he gets too.

 

I am so thankful for all your help.

[Guest jenbush123]

Hi everyone - just asking for kind thoughts today. some of you may remember that in September we had our first greyhound diagnosed with osteo and a leg amputated. The in October the same thing with our second greyhound.

 

We have a third greyhound who has been limping for about 2 months. Initial xrays did not show osteo and vets thought arthritis. Drugs in the last month for arthritis have not helped and limp getting slowly worse. Yesterday he had a deep red spot on his skin about his leg he is limping on, so took him back to vet today for this (and also because limp not better). New Xrays show a change in the bone, so vet now thinks Osteo for our third greyhound as well. We are being referred to the vet specialist that did our first 2 surgeries to review the xrays.

 

I'm not sure I can handle making these decisions for a third dog in 4 months, and likely won't see the vet specialist until Monday. This greyhound (Davy) is large - 95 lbs, so not sure we can help him through leg amputation as cannot physically lift him into/out of cars, etc.

 

So my other thought - has there been any investigative work into environmental or other variables that might contribute to osteo? I know the incidence rate in greyhounds is high, but 3 greyhounds diagnosed in 4 months seems much higher than the breed rates.

[joejoesmom]

Hi everyone - just asking for kind thoughts today. some of you may remember that in September we had our first greyhound diagnosed with osteo and a leg amputated. The in October the same thing with our second greyhound.

 

We have a third greyhound who has been limping for about 2 months. Initial xrays did not show osteo and vets thought arthritis. Drugs in the last month for arthritis have not helped and limp getting slowly worse. Yesterday he had a deep red spot on his skin about his leg he is limping on, so took him back to vet today for this (and also because limp not better). New Xrays show a change in the bone, so vet now thinks Osteo for our third greyhound as well. We are being referred to the vet specialist that did our first 2 surgeries to review the xrays.

 

I'm not sure I can handle making these decisions for a third dog in 4 months, and likely won't see the vet specialist until Monday. This greyhound (Davy) is large - 95 lbs, so not sure we can help him through leg amputation as cannot physically lift him into/out of cars, etc.

 

So my other thought - has there been any investigative work into environmental or other variables that might contribute to osteo? I know the incidence rate in greyhounds is high, but 3 greyhounds diagnosed in 4 months seems much higher than the breed rates.

I don't have the answer but I wanted to say that I am so, so sorry that you are going through this yet again. I can't even imagine how devastating this is.

 

<many, many hugs>

 

Jane

[BauersMom]

Hi everyone - just asking for kind thoughts today. some of you may remember that in September we had our first greyhound diagnosed with osteo and a leg amputated. The in October the same thing with our second greyhound.

 

We have a third greyhound who has been limping for about 2 months. Initial xrays did not show osteo and vets thought arthritis. Drugs in the last month for arthritis have not helped and limp getting slowly worse. Yesterday he had a deep red spot on his skin about his leg he is limping on, so took him back to vet today for this (and also because limp not better). New Xrays show a change in the bone, so vet now thinks Osteo for our third greyhound as well. We are being referred to the vet specialist that did our first 2 surgeries to review the xrays.

 

I'm not sure I can handle making these decisions for a third dog in 4 months, and likely won't see the vet specialist until Monday. This greyhound (Davy) is large - 95 lbs, so not sure we can help him through leg amputation as cannot physically lift him into/out of cars, etc.

 

So my other thought - has there been any investigative work into environmental or other variables that might contribute to osteo? I know the incidence rate in greyhounds is high, but 3 greyhounds diagnosed in 4 months seems much higher than the breed rates.

This is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry.

 

Are your dogs related at all? There has been some work on a genetic make up - it does seem like terribly bad luck to have three in such a short period of time.

[Guest jenbush123]

This is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry.

 

Are your dogs related at all? There has been some work on a genetic make up - it does seem like terribly bad luck to have three in such a short period of time.

Our dogs are not related. Two of them share a great great great grandfather, but that's it. They are also all from different tracks (CT, MA and WV). The vet specialist is reviewing the xrays today, but based on how Davy progressed this weekend, I'm pretty sure it's osteo. At least we had leftover gabapentin to give him for pain and that seems to help him.