Bizarre Behaivor With Larry! Any Help Is Appreciated

[carronstar]

Breathing deep for you as I am an alarmist who forgets to breathe when my girl is hurting. Holding good thoughts for Larry.

[Guest K9_Lady]

Kim, you know your dog the best! I don't think that you are an alarmist, you are doing the right thing! You are a fabulous greyhound Mom

[macoduck]

It's not the fly swatting. Please don't beat yourself up over it.

[Cully]

Just checking in on Larry.

[juliemac]

Kim -- Riley acts like that every once in awhile (they're worse in the late summer/fall), and it seems to be related to barometric pressure changes. Tuesday night and yesterday were HORRIBLE days for Riley around here, and while Riley didn't act too weird today, we certainly had storms roll through today that might have triggered something in Larry as well.

 

Hoping Larry's issues are something as innocuous as Riley's ...

 

gentle hugs, julie

[JJNg]

I suspect that the swatting flies is probably a coincidence and not related to why Larry's acting odd. And I doubt it's related to Nube's chemo. With the history of him showing signs after the 2 bigger meals, I'd suspect some kind of GI discomfort, such as gas pain or an ulcer. A less likely possibility might be liver issues, so it might be a good idea to do some bloodwork, if just for your peace of mind. Hopefully it's nothing serious, and it could still just be behavioral.

 

Plus, if it was going to incur such behavior, wouldn't Nube be acting the same (or worse) since he's actually ingesting the meds? I don't understand why if it's that bad for others, why would you give it to the cancer dog? This is a separate rant/question but just saying.

 

Ingesting chemo meds, especially residual amounts second hand, wouldn't cause this. All drugs, especially chemo drugs, have the potential for side effects, and when treat cancering, you're using the drugs because the benefits outweigh the risks. And you also do bloodwork to monitor for signs of side effects like immunosuppression. The reason there are so many precautions against exposing others to the drugs is because you don't want to risk those side effects in an individual (whether human or animal) that doesn't need it and won't benefit from it, but could still experience the negative side effects.

[carronstar]

Checking in on Larry.

[cleptogrey]

mmmm....interesting and strange. i would reduce all food to plain old white rice and see if there are any changes. if he is reacting to something he ingested, maybe reaction to a food that he has "always" had in the past it will take a while to get out of his system or as you mentioned the start or a mild case of pancretitus(sp). but from what you are describing there is a gastro-upset and white rice is the route i would take. think about any of his treats, something toxic could have been in it, even a small amount and it needs to get out of his system??? maybe? the fly swatting is a coinsidence, hang up some flytape, ruins the sport of killing those buggers but it works- i swear by it, just don't get it in your hair(what a mess).keep on posting, good luck!

 

slow and steady in reintroducing any foods, maybe he also needs some pecid ac before eating? but your vet will guide you there. i just found out, from my dr. that pecid ac also works as an antihimine as well as a ppi(which stops the production of stomach acid).

Edited August 17, 2012 by cleptogrey

[JohnF]

How much Calcium would bring on Hypercalcaemia symptoms? A lot I'd think, yet it is such a complicated thing with hormones and systems involved. But it could be your poor dog is balancing on a knife-edge as a result of a normal diagnosable condition. All of us on here are hoping for better news soon.

 

I don't what to worry you further but read what they say about it from the human medicine side:

 

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000365.htm

[maggiespet]

Checking in on your handsome boy this AM.

[carronstar]

Checking in on Larry this morning.

[Charlies_Dad]

Checking for an update on Larry. I hope he's calmed down and you got some answers at the vet.

[MachosMom]

Checking in here too and hoping for good news and answers. Lots of hugs being sent too.

[Guest DylanGospel]

Kim -- Riley acts like that every once in awhile (they're worse in the late summer/fall), and it seems to be related to barometric pressure changes. Tuesday night and yesterday were HORRIBLE days for Riley around here, and while Riley didn't act too weird today, we certainly had storms roll through today that might have triggered something in Larry as well.

 

Hoping Larry's issues are something as innocuous as Riley's ...

 

gentle hugs, julie

 

We've been dealing with strange, seasonal behavior with our Starr Gospel ever since we adopted him in 2006. Something in the air, weather, or whatever triggers these panic episodes in late summer. He pants, runs erratically through the house, and sometimes even loses control of himself. We've tried to figure out what the triggers could be, but they seem to be compounded, ie. light, barometric pressure, allergens, whatever! The only things we have found to alleviate some of the stress have been the following: Melatonin (up to three pills a day), Rescue Remedy, a thunder shirt, and once in a while a Benedryl. When the attacks are particularly severe, I'll give him the Rescue Remedy and a Benedryl along with the Melatonin). During the attacks he doesn't eat and is pretty unconsolable. They gradually deline in severity as darkness approaches and disappear in the fall.

[RaineysMom]

hi guys, sorry to take so long to get back to you.

 

the vet (who is very young, not our regular one) said she thought it was not mental but physical -- she found he had some abdominal discomfort (which she had a more senior vet confirm) and gave him some Pepcid (20mg 1 x day).

 

he was super wacky all evening, we contained him in the living room/dining room (they're attached, our ground floor consists of those two rooms plus the kitchen and foyer, all connected) and he just got as far away from us as he could, curled up in a corner of the dining room

 

and again, this morning he was his super happy, bouncy self at 5:30am for breakfast. He ate, went back upstairs (he's sleeping with Bruce in the bedroom, I'm down with Nube) until the usual 6:30am, went for his walk (normal) then came in the living room and onto his Slumberball. At 10:30am I got Nube up to go pee and he jumped up and ran to the gate. I let him out first, and after that he's been back to being weird -- panting, will NOT come into the living room (even leashed, he just statued) and only wanting to get as far away as he can from us. He's been 100% his normal happy self first thing in the morning, but after he eats (and up until today, only after eating lunch and dinner -- was ok after breakfast Wed and Thurs) he gets all stressed.

 

I talked to our adoption rep (who fostered him for 5 months before he came here last year) and she's thinking it might be IBD or something similar. He's been getting a different diet, he's still getting 75% his old kibble but getting a lot more chicken (and other meat, too) and the pulverized veggies and more cottage cheese/yogurt than he was before. She said that their dog developed IBD literally overnight, that the body can tolerate whatever is the trigger for so long, then it just "can't". Her dog exibited similar behavior. She thinks he is feeling so bad that he's trying to hide, and that's why he is trying to get as far away as he can and that the living room is too open of an area and he feels too vulnerable in here.

 

we are withholding food now (he already got some breakfast) -- no lunch and no dinner, if needed (and no breakfast or lunch tomorrow either, if needed) to see if he improves. If he goes back to "normal", we'll know it's something physical and can go from there. If he does not improve, it could still be mental (and either way, back to the vet, possibly needing an ultrasound) and the only other thing I can think to do is bring him up to her (they're north of Milwaukee) and see if he goes back to "normal" there. If so, then I don't know what we will do. Sadly IBD is the lesser of two evils right now.

 

If it IS IBD, I caused it by doing all this stupid new food crap. This might sound terrible but we SO do NOT need this right now. :( it is like we had a happy, healthly, confident dog Tuesday afternoon and we now have a super spook.

[TINMANPDX]

Kim,

I am sorry Larry is causing you so much concern - you are doing the same thing I do when one of mine is not acting "normal" - I replay everything in my head and try to figure out what I did to cause it,and my mind always skips from the actual symptoms to the worst thing it could possibly be. What worries me the most is if either of them is off their food because they both are enthusiastic eaters. I also worry when they hide out in the back rooms because I try to figure out why they need to isolate themselves.

Lea is a spook about thunder and fireworks. We give her melatonin, which helps a bit, and she seems to feel better laying on a bath mat in the bathroom with the fan on (white noise).

She also snaps at flies in the back yard and is really good at catching them. I have heard, though that snapping at non-existant flies can be signs of a seizure, but Larry doesn't seem to be having other seizure symptoms (hope I haven't gotten you worrying about that, but it may be worth asking the vet).

 

Sending calming thoughts to you and Larry and healing thoughts to Nube.

 

Tess

[RaineysMom]

Kim,

I am sorry Larry is causing you so much concern - you are doing the same thing I do when one of mine is not acting "normal" - I replay everything in my head and try to figure out what I did to cause it,and my mind always skips from the actual symptoms to the worst thing it could possibly be. What worries me the most is if either of them is off their food because they both are enthusiastic eaters. I also worry when they hide out in the back rooms because I try to figure out why they need to isolate themselves.

Lea is a spook about thunder and fireworks. We give her melatonin, which helps a bit, and she seems to feel better laying on a bath mat in the bathroom with the fan on (white noise).

She also snaps at flies in the back yard and is really good at catching them. I have heard, though that snapping at non-existant flies can be signs of a seizure, but Larry doesn't seem to be having other seizure symptoms (hope I haven't gotten you worrying about that, but it may be worth asking the vet).

 

Sending calming thoughts to you and Larry and healing thoughts to Nube.

 

Tess

 

his refusal of treats is definitely one of the biggest concerns/signs with him, too. He's never ever done that before and is always pushing Nube out of the way to get them.

 

he wasn't snapping at invisible flies, they were real ones he was going after -- he's quite the fly catcher.

 

I let him go up into our bedroom, I'd rather have him nearer so I can keep an eye on him but if it makes him feel better to be far away from us then so be it.

[seeh2o]

No advice, but lots of good thoughts. I hope you can get to the root of the problem and fix it. Have you thought of giving him a Gas X at meal time to see if you can head off the problem?

Edited August 17, 2012 by seeh2o

[Guest LindsaySF]

I suspect that the swatting flies is probably a coincidence and not related to why Larry's acting odd. And I doubt it's related to Nube's chemo. With the history of him showing signs after the 2 bigger meals, I'd suspect some kind of GI discomfort, such as gas pain or an ulcer. A less likely possibility might be liver issues, so it might be a good idea to do some bloodwork, if just for your peace of mind. Hopefully it's nothing serious, and it could still just be behavioral.

I agree with this post. His symptoms sound like GI distress. What does his stool look like?

 

If he wanders over to the door or stares at the door I would let him out. He might have gas or might have the urge to have diarrhea.

 

Rogan gets diarrhea from time to time, and he'll pant, pace, be unable to lay down, and whine, and want to go outside dozens of times. This reminds me very much of what you're describing with Larry.

[carronstar]

No advice, just lots of hugs and good thoughts. Don't beat yourself up about "causing" this. You didn't. Even if it is food related, it would have reared its ugly head at some point in time.

[RaineysMom]

I suspect that the swatting flies is probably a coincidence and not related to why Larry's acting odd. And I doubt it's related to Nube's chemo. With the history of him showing signs after the 2 bigger meals, I'd suspect some kind of GI discomfort, such as gas pain or an ulcer. A less likely possibility might be liver issues, so it might be a good idea to do some bloodwork, if just for your peace of mind. Hopefully it's nothing serious, and it could still just be behavioral.

I agree with this post. His symptoms sound like GI distress. What does his stool look like?

 

If he wanders over to the door or stares at the door I would let him out. He might have gas or might have the urge to have diarrhea.

 

Rogan gets diarrhea from time to time, and he'll pant, pace, be unable to lay down, and whine, and want to go outside dozens of times. This reminds me very much of what you're describing with Larry.

 

his poop is fine, solid as a rock this morning (the first poo, it was closer to soft serve on his walk, which is normal for him, the 2nd one is always looser). He wasn't looking at the door like he had to go out to potty, but like to escape, to get away. And yesterday, when he went in the basement and stared at that door, we NEVER go out that door so he would never associate it with having to go potty. I don't think what we're seeing is from just having to go out to potty -- he's in obvious distress

 

I've been looking up IBD this morning and I don't know, it sure doesn't sound like what he has -- the symptoms for that are diarrhea and vomiting, which he has neither of. Just the obvious stress and possible discomfort, always after eating. The only time he's been "normal" is first thing in the morning, when his last meal was 11 prior.

 

I had to give him his Tramadol (they prescribed 50mg 3 x day) and his 20mg Pepcid with a tiny bit of liver sausage, up in the bedroom. He hasn't come out once all day. This is SO very not like him, he's NEVER acted like this.

[LuvAPuppy]

It does sound to me like he's trying to outrun something. Gut pain is a definite possibility. (for those who have true IBD dogs, forgive this next statement): I think sometimes "IBD" is used as a cop-out diagnosis for "your dog has some kind of vague abdominal/GI disturbance and we don't know how else to classify it." And I say that statement that is so rude to dogs with true IBD because I have a dog with the cop-out version of that diagnosis. The vets call it IBD however she gets sick one day a month, may or may not vomit, never diarrhea, never loses weight, rarely ever bleeds and the symptoms last less then 24 hours without treatment. And this has not changed for 10 years.

 

So while he may or may not be starting with IBD, the varience in the diet could be causing gastric or intestinal disturbance. He could be sensitive to all the extra fiber from the veggies, getting gas and the second looser poo. He could be sensitive to chicken like so many are sensitive to beef and what not. That could explain why he feels good until after he eats, then he hurts and hides. Then those overnight hours pass, the pain (or whatever) goes away and he feels good again.

[RaineysMom]

It does sound to me like he's trying to outrun something. Gut pain is a definite possibility. (for those who have true IBD dogs, forgive this next statement): I think sometimes "IBD" is used as a cop-out diagnosis for "your dog has some kind of vague abdominal/GI disturbance and we don't know how else to classify it." And I say that statement that is so rude to dogs with true IBD because I have a dog with the cop-out version of that diagnosis. The vets call it IBD however she gets sick one day a month, may or may not vomit, never diarrhea, never loses weight, rarely ever bleeds and the symptoms last less then 24 hours without treatment. And this has not changed for 10 years.

 

So while he may or may not be starting with IBD, the varience in the diet could be causing gastric or intestinal disturbance. He could be sensitive to all the extra fiber from the veggies, getting gas and the second looser poo. He could be sensitive to chicken like so many are sensitive to beef and what not. That could explain why he feels good until after he eats, then he hurts and hides. Then those overnight hours pass, the pain (or whatever) goes away and he feels good again.

 

does she exhibit any of the same weird behavior Larry is when she has her issues?

 

and he's been eating the home cooked since 7/13 and in fact is getting less now than when I started (we had more kibble left to use up than I realized so I upped the kibble portion to use it up more quickly) so I don't know why it would take 34 days for this to start? And the 2nd looser poo is just normal for him, he's always done that.

 

That could explain why he feels good until after he eats, then he hurts and hides. Then those overnight hours pass, the pain (or whatever) goes away and he feels good again.

 

that's what we are thinking too, so hopefully we'll see him more normal sometime today so far he's still hiding up in the bedroom, which is SO not like him. He's never hid or acted like this before.

[Newgreymom]

Haven't read all the posts, but could it be a partial blockage? Did the vet do a X-ray or ultrasound of the abdomen?

[RaineysMom]

Haven't read all the posts, but could it be a partial blockage? Did the vet do a X-ray or ultrasound of the abdomen?

 

yes, they took an x-ray yesterday since I was concerned about bloat (although he would be dead by now if it was bloat, after 4 days) -- nothing on it.