Bizarre Behaivor With Larry! Any Help Is Appreciated

[MaryJane]

IMHO, if there is some abdominal distress giving a Tramadol without food is going to make it worse. Also, I'm not sure what the "no feeding" is going to accomplish - you would be better off giving a bland diet of hamburger (cooked) and rice so that there is something easy to digest in the stomach. If you think it is IBD, then pick up the ZD and give that with rice. If you are not feeding at all, then chances are you might start having some vomiting occurring (bile) which makes everything worse ....

 

Hope you find out what the issue is ...

[RaineysMom]

IMHO, if there is some abdominal distress giving a Tramadol without food is going to make it worse. Also, I'm not sure what the "no feeding" is going to accomplish - you would be better off giving a bland diet of hamburger (cooked) and rice so that there is something easy to digest in the stomach. If you think it is IBD, then pick up the ZD and give that with rice. If you are not feeding at all, then chances are you might start having some vomiting occurring (bile) which makes everything worse ....

 

Hope you find out what the issue is ...

 

we're not feeding him in the hopes that he will act more like his normal self once his digestive system is clear and then we will know for sure it's physical and not mental. IBD causes a lot of pain so the Tramadol is to help that and not feedind is also to let the intestines "settle" down.

 

also, rice -- although prescribed all over -- is not the best carb to give them, potatoes are much easier and less chance of allergies. If he gets back to "normal", he'll get either just plain kibble (and NOTHING else, no treats) -- if he goes back to wacky after eating just that, then we'll give just turkey with some potatoes and see if he does better on that. I'm wondering if it's possibly a food intolerance and not IBD.

 

if THAT doesn't help, or he doesn't get back to "normal" after not feeding for 24 hours, then it's back to the vet immediately.

[cleptogrey]

less chance of allergies from potatoes? that's news to me. i've always been told rice, if your dog has a reaction to rice- then pasta. i do remember reading somewhere on GT that white potatoes can cause urinary upsets. mmmm .....if not......then i would try boiled potatoes and eventually one protien that he can tolerate- only 20% of the meal should be the protien. add probiotics and digestive enzymes, he most likely is missing some. they never hurt but it takes a while to build up and work in one's system

 

i'm reading the reactions and i have acid reflux-gerd- and when the acid gets going it's really uncomfortable. so your thoughts about gastro-issues sound right on the $$$ especially since he's worse after eating.my chiropractor has had success w/ probiotics and digestive enzymes,( that's why i posted it above) years ago dogs were never fed 2 meals a day, maybe one will work better. i have tried the 6 small meal philosophy for acid reflux- one meal seems to set off less distress. it's a matter of finding out which key will fit! keep on posting,

[RaineysMom]

less chance of allergies from potatoes? that's news to me. i've always been told rice, if your dog has a reaction to rice- then pasta. i do remember reading somewhere on GT that white potatoes can cause urinary upsets. mmmm .....if not......then i would try boiled potatoes and eventually one protien that he can tolerate- only 20% of the meal should be the protien. add probiotics and digestive enzymes, he most likely is missing some. they never hurt but it takes a while to build up and work in one's system

 

i'm reading the reactions and i have acid reflux-gerd- and when the acid gets going it's really uncomfortable. so your thoughts about gastro-issues sound right on the $$$ especially since he's worse after eating.my chiropractor has had success w/ probiotics and digestive enzymes,( that's why i posted it above) years ago dogs were never fed 2 meals a day, maybe one will work better. i have tried the 6 small meal philosophy for acid reflux- one meal seems to set off less distress. it's a matter of finding out which key will fit! keep on posting,

 

since rice is a grain and potato is not, it's usually better to give that if you suspect an allergy or intolerance (especially if to grain -- and since we have no idea what the problem is, it's a good start).

 

I was able to get him out of the bedroom to go out and pee, but he ran right back up there when he came in he is really not feeling well. I had hoped for some better results by now

[tbhounds]

Gotta disagree with the majority of ya :-). This does not sound like IBD. I've had my fair share of experience with IBD and these symptoms just don't add up to IBD too me. Could have GI distress or upset sure but, true IBD I don't think so. I'm leaning towards emotional upset. Something spooked him. Have you tried changing your routine-feeding in a different room, move a few chairs around, change your own schedule with where you sit, tv time, dinner time etc...

To rule out tummy woes you might want to keep it simple in the kitchen-easy to digest small frequent meals and continue with daily Pepcid or prilosec.

[cleptogrey]

for some reason all of this makes me think of my friend's grey who is a total spook. she finally found out that he was allergic to chicken(she feeds raw) but also had problems w/ his potassium levels. he's on a potassium sparing diuretic, chinese herbs for kidney function and shows signs of allergies especially during RAGWEED and MOLD season. tis the season for RAGWEED around here, how about in your neck of the woods? her poor male has gone thru bouts of pancretitius(sp), horrid itchy inflamed ears and many many strange emotional responses to normal daily life. he no longer can get into the back of the car, panics when he leaves her small patio and hangs out in the house. she has tried holistic meds, traditional meds, chinese herbs, goods from her homeopath and clicker training(one dedicated owner). larry almost sounds like lapis years ago when all of his problems first started.

[LuvAPuppy]

It does sound to me like he's trying to outrun something. Gut pain is a definite possibility. (for those who have true IBD dogs, forgive this next statement): I think sometimes "IBD" is used as a cop-out diagnosis for "your dog has some kind of vague abdominal/GI disturbance and we don't know how else to classify it." And I say that statement that is so rude to dogs with true IBD because I have a dog with the cop-out version of that diagnosis. The vets call it IBD however she gets sick one day a month, may or may not vomit, never diarrhea, never loses weight, rarely ever bleeds and the symptoms last less then 24 hours without treatment. And this has not changed for 10 years.

 

So while he may or may not be starting with IBD, the varience in the diet could be causing gastric or intestinal disturbance. He could be sensitive to all the extra fiber from the veggies, getting gas and the second looser poo. He could be sensitive to chicken like so many are sensitive to beef and what not. That could explain why he feels good until after he eats, then he hurts and hides. Then those overnight hours pass, the pain (or whatever) goes away and he feels good again.

 

does she exhibit any of the same weird behavior Larry is when she has her issues? No. She will move from bed to bed if she's really hurting and that may take her to try beds in other rooms, but she doesn't actually hide. She just tries to move away from the pain and find a place to be comfortable.

 

and he's been eating the home cooked since 7/13 and in fact is getting less now than when I started (we had more kibble left to use up than I realized so I upped the kibble portion to use it up more quickly) so I don't know why it would take 34 days for this to start? And the 2nd looser poo is just normal for him, he's always done that. Hm, so maybe it's the reintroduction to kibble that's a problem. Or maybe he can't handle both natural and kibble he needs to be one or the other. How old is the kibble? Could it be getting stale or old? I'm reaching for anything you maybe haven't though of no matter how off the mark it may be

 

That could explain why he feels good until after he eats, then he hurts and hides. Then those overnight hours pass, the pain (or whatever) goes away and he feels good again.

 

that's what we are thinking too, so hopefully we'll see him more normal sometime today so far he's still hiding up in the bedroom, which is SO not like him. He's never hid or acted like this before.

 

I typed my answers in bold inside the quote box, it seemed like it would take less time

[TwiggysMom]

I'll jump into the guessing game with possibly ulcers? That would certainly make sense regarding the issues starting after eating. Of course, that's the first thing I think of mainly because Twiggy was just dealing with them. Her symptoms weren't really like Larry's,

but she was definitely "off", for some time - like you, I couldn't really define it at first; then the vomiting and diarrhea started.

 

We didn't actually diagnose ulcer via scope, but treated for ulcers (sucralfate, cerenia, and omeprazole), and her turnaround started immediately.

 

I hope you get some answers and solutions soon! You sure don't need this right now, and I know how worrying it is to have undiagnosed illnesses.

[galgrey]

So sorry to read this and especially right now with all you're going through with Nubes. No idea what could be going on, but I hope it resolves soon. I'll be sending all of you lots and lots of and checking back for an update.

[MachosMom]

All I can offer is more hugs and support. I know how much you don't need this. Will keep following for updates and sending good vibes.

[RaineysMom]

hi guys, quick update --

 

@luvapuppy -- the kibble isn't being reintroduced, he's never been off of it -- he was just getting slightly less than he is now for a week or so when I first started them on the home cooked. He was getting a lot of chicken, especially this week.

 

he did spend a little time with us in the living room last night, not very willingly at first, but some. This morning I woke up to sounds of thuds from the bedroom upstairs I ran up there and he was his usual, bouncy self (thus the noise ) so we pulled out some stuffies and he played with them like MAD (which is normal). Went for a walkie, then I had Bruce take Nube outside and I pulled out a couple of Nube's stuffies that we keep in the living room, and he played with them in here (positive reinforcement). He slept on his Slumber ball for the hour or so I was at the store getting his hamburger and potatoes. Cooked a small amount up, he ate it with gusto (which is normal, he was eating fine before, it was just after that when the weird behavior started up) and is in the LR with us now, sleeping (for the most part) on the SB. He at first didn't seem like he wanted to be in here but got a little better after 15 minutes or so.

 

Gotta disagree with the majority of ya :-). This does not sound like IBD. I've had my fair share of experience with IBD and these symptoms just don't add up to IBD too me. Could have GI distress or upset sure but, true IBD I don't think so. I'm leaning towards emotional upset. Something spooked him. Have you tried changing your routine-feeding in a different room, move a few chairs around, change your own schedule with where you sit, tv time, dinner time etc...

To rule out tummy woes you might want to keep it simple in the kitchen-easy to digest small frequent meals and continue with daily Pepcid or prilosec.

 

I don't think it's IBD either, he has neither of the symptoms (vomiting or diarrhea) -- I was thinking more like food intolerance, because that CAN cause stomach distress.

 

You know, I thought it might be from me swatting those flys -- but the next morning I killed a large wolf spider and was wondering if he may have gotten bit while on the SB. I didn't see any marks on him on Wednesday but yesterday, when I was walking him in the evening, noticed a large red spot on his upper right arm (backside) -- I don't know if it's from a bite or just a bruise, but that sure would explain a lot. He may consider the SB upstairs the only "safe" spot from getting bit? When he laid down on it after lunch, he kept acting like something was crawling on him (whipping his head around and looking at his body).

 

I'm still going to go ahead and keep up with the ground beef and potatoes for a few days, and then maybe reintroduce the kibble slowly. I may never know what the real issue is, if it was from something spooking him or if it truly is some kind of GI issue.

 

thanks again for the good thoughts and advice, I hope he continues to "go back to normal". He may be a little better today because Bruce is home, he may go back to "weird" on Monday -- but I sure hope not.

[tbhounds]

Ya-another piece to te puzzle-it absolutely could be from a spider bite. Maybe you try to try a dap diffuser in the scary room?

[carronstar]

I don't know anything about wolf spiders aside from the fact that I run from spiders. A bite makes sense as something that would both hurt and upset Larry. Today sound like a good day so fingers crossed that those add up for him.

[galgrey]

Glad to see a positive update. I so hope this continues.

[RaineysMom]

We're almost sure it's from the fly thing on Tuesday, that and possibly getting bit by something while on the bed. We were outside with him yesterday afternoon and while he's always been annoyed by flies he's never had an issue being outside. If Bruce hadn't seen the whole thing we wouldn't have known. He was standing by the door to get in (I was in the kitchen) and a fly either landed on him or possible bit him and Bruce said he jumped straight up like 2 feet, then ran out into the yard in fear, like trying to get away. After that he was all freaked out the rest of the day and night. He came in and almost broke down the gate on the stairs to get up to the bedroom. He was in utter fear. So, this REALLY sucks because there's nothing I can do about flies. He was bad last night. It's SO hard to see him be so afraid and so stressed out, I don't know what to do.

[tbhounds]

Evil bugs--alas winters coming

[Remolacha]

I don't like to medicate unless it's really necessary, but have you considered something to calm him? Now that it seems like it is a behavior/fear issue, something to help calm him when he freaks out might help. I personally hate flies myownself!

[carronstar]

Maybe some Neem spray would work for Larry. It sprays on, is non-toxic and pretty pleasant smelling. Link

 

I got it when Aquitaine first came to me because she got a rash on the back of her thighs that I thought was bug bites. It cleared it right up. I now use it whenever we leave the city as a flea/tick repellant. It was worked great for us. It is supposed to work for flies and bites as well.

[RaineysMom]

Maybe some Neem spray would work for Larry. It sprays on, is non-toxic and pretty pleasant smelling. Link

 

I got it when Aquitaine first came to me because she got a rash on the back of her thighs that I thought was bug bites. It cleared it right up. I now use it whenever we leave the city as a flea/tick repellant. It was worked great for us. It is supposed to work for flies and bites as well.

 

he seems to be terrified of them even just flying around him now. But I can look into it.

 

we went out to our winery (again, that's about the only thing we can do where we can bring Nube and have him just lay on his bed) yesterday morning, he was ok in the gazebo and then did sleep in the afternoon on the SB in the LR (not soundly, though) and spent part of the night in here, the other hiding in the dining room

 

he has not roached ONCE on the SB since this happened, and he literally spent 3/4 of his time in that position. When he's on the SB he seems very watchful and somewhat nervous at times. We've been keeping them gated in the LR/DR, not sure if that's the best thing. Part of me wants to let him go up to the bedroom if that's where he's more comfortable, but the other part wants him to get used to being in here and overcome his fears. I'm afraid if he continually stays upstairs he'll never get over this.

[TINMANPDX]

Dang - I read the good news and got all happy, then I read the not so great news. It sounds like you are coming closer to getting a handle on it, I hope this all resolves itself soon.

[Guest DylanGospel]

I wrote earlier about Gospel and his panic attacks. Your fly incident reminds that that one summer early on, Gospel was stung by a bee and from that day on, he always has regarded any outside, flying object with fear.

 

I am no psychologist, but I think that stressors become piled one upon another, and it becomes almost impossible to separate and treat them. For example, thunderphobia can be compounded by barometric pressure, the sound of the thunder, the sight of the lightning and so forth.

 

The only thing that has ever totally worked for us with Gospel has been the passage of the seasons...from late summer into early fall. This year hasn't been as bad as it has been in the past, but I don't know if it's because the weather pattern has been unusual, or because I started using Melatonin early on (before the symptoms started in). I hope that Nube's condition disappears with the change in seasons, too. It's frightening and frustrating not to know how to help your dog.

[carronstar]

Checking on Larry today.

[RaineysMom]

I don't want to jinx anything -- but since yesterday, he's been slowly going back to his old self. Yesterday he sat out with Nube and I (only for a few minutes, but at least he stayed outside with the SCARY FLIES) and he hasn't wanted to even BE outside since that episode on Saturday. Before all of this I would literally have to PRY him from off the beds to get him inside.

 

he spent the time from lunch until about 4:30pm or so up on the landing (hiding) but did come down (he thought I was fixing dinner ) several times to check on us and did lay in the kitchen for a short time too.

 

this morning I was pleasantly surprised to see not one but TWO white roachies on his Slumberball he literally has not roached since last Tuesday -- and while that doesn't sound like a big deal, it is because he LIVES to roach and it was SO out of character. He also went and lay outside for about 10 minutes (it's too hot to stay out much longer).

 

Bruce stopped and picked up some Rescue Remedy yesterday, he got 4 drops last night, 3 (on a treat) at 9am and 2 again right after lunch (which is when he usually gets wonky) and he's snoozing on his Slumberball now this is the first time he's come back in here after lunch (he goes and hides). I also washed the SB covers (and the bankies we put on top) -- maybe Nube is giving off weird vibes (or it's the chemo??) and Larry doesn't like the SB like that?

 

so (knock on wood!) hopefully he continues to get back to his old self.

[MP_the4pack]

Awwww good boy Larry for getting better.

 

Kim you need to get a new signature with Larry in it too.

[carronstar]

So happy to hear that Larry is moving forward!! I would LOVE to see a picture of him.