Pooping From Anxiety...help!

[Guest mackenzielyn]

My sweet greyhound, Fiona is 5 years old.... I've had her for 2.5 years, she is my baby... BUT... She has gotten out of control pooping in the house!! If I leave for 10-15 min, she will poop 3 or 4 piles in the house. When my mom's dog stays with me, she doesn't do it as much.... She has gotten MUCH worse about this in the last month or so. I work 12 hour shifts and my mom lets her out twice while I am away, I don't want to crate her b\c I am gone for so long, so I leave her in the kitchen/laundry room. She ALWAYS has at least one or two accidents when I'm working that my poor mom has to clean up... When I am not working, I leave her loose in the house.... some days she does fine, other days she poops and pees in the house while I'm gone. I don't know what else to do!! I think it's seperation anxiety, not her being unable to hold it b\c she can go 12-14 hours overnight without going!!!

 

I can't deal with poop piles for the rest of her life

 

Please let me know if you have ANY advice!

 

Thank you

Mackenzie and Fiona

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Can she see out a window? Mine has separation anxiety and it helped when she wasn't gated in and could look for me out the window. Also remember that SA seems to go in cycles....good for a while then a bad few weeks. Do you think adding another dog will help?

[Guest sweetpea]

I don't doubt what is happening, but 3 or 4 piles of poop in the space of 10-15 minutes is just mind boggling.

 

Sweetpea usually manages two poops a day. Sometimes 3.

 

I guess what my question is, could this be a food related issue and not just SA?

 

Are you sure she is going when she gets let out? (It sounds like you have a yard, so I'm guessing you might not know for sure.)

 

Does she have a potty schedule? Sweetpea goes 7:30 am, 3:30 pm and 9 pm with little variance.

Even with your mom coming to let her out, it's good if it's at close to the same time every day.

 

You say you've had her for 2.5 years, has she had accidents inside the whole time or is this new?

(You wrote it's gotten much worse in the last month, I just don't know if that meant she was perfectly

housebroken before or not.)

 

Buzzy

[mychip1]

I would wonder about a food change as well. Also, Buzzy is right about a schedule. You need to be sure she is going when she is out.

 

If she is that nervous when you are gone, has something changed..i.e. noises in the neighborhood, etc.??

[Sambuca]

I would get her checked for worms, just in case.

[greysmom]

For dogs with separation anxiety, schedule and consistency are everything. They respond best when everything is the same everyday. If she has been doing fine for months/years, and now all of a sudden is having accidents, then *something* has changed. Do you have new neighbors? Any new construction in the neighborhood? Have you noticed more door-to-door visitors recently or gotten deliveries?

 

Has YOUR schedule or your Mom's schedule changed at all? Have you changed her food or her feeding times? Are her bathroom habits the same or have they changed recently?

 

In the absence of any discernable changes,in for a complete vet check-up, including a full thyroid panel. A change in thyroid levels can cause an increase in anxiety, but you need a FULL panel, not just a T4 (search in H&M for details and values).

 

Another dog will sometimes help with separation anxiety, but not always doable in individual situations. If this isn't a solution for you, can she stay at your Mom's during the day?

 

If she is healthy otherwise, and you are positive this is an anxiety reaction, then it's time to speak to your vet about some medication to help her (and you) manage her behavior. The "go-to" for vet's to start with is Clomicalm. This is a drug that has been developed specifically for canine use. Other drugs you might try are off-label uses of human anti-anxiety drugs (Prozac, Paxil, etc). Be warned - it can take several trials of different dosages and different drugs to find one that works for your dog. And most of them will take a week or so to build up to a clinically effective level in the bloodstream. If your vet isn't comfortable with the variety of drugs and choices, ask for a referral to one that does. (Search this forum for more info on separation anxiety.)

 

Remember, she's not doing this because she's trying to spite you for leaving or get back at you. She's scared and she can't help it. I've never seen a house-trained dog who *wanted* to break the rules and go in the house unless there was a medical/physical reason to do so. She could have behavioral issues, that the drugs will help you work through. She could have a chemical imbalance in her brain that a medication will correct. At this point, she has to look to you to help her be the happy, calm dog she wants to be.

[Guest mackenzielyn]

Thank you everyone for your response.

Yes, she goes when she is out and yes I have tried MANY different foods throughout the years and nothing seems to help. This is not a new problem, she has always done this is some capacity... and yes she does make 3-4 piles at a time, she goes a little walks forward goes a little more, and goes to a different room and does the same thing.

 

I am a nurse, my schedule changes every single day, so no there is no way to make a routine for her everyday... she has always seemed to adjust well. No change in neighbors, house, anything. She eats once at night, and she poops everyday first thing in the morning and usually one other time during the day.

 

I have joked and said she has another seperate colon where she keeps her "nervous poop" this poop is runny and hard to clean up and it's different from her more formed "normal poop".... I think another dog would be great, but I am single and don't have the space or money for another dog. My mom is sweet to let her out when I work, but I can't expect her to keep her everyday. I used to live farther away from her (45min) and Fiona would go all day 12-13 hours in the house on days I worked and she rarely had an accident.... I just don't know what else to do. I'd hate to put her on anti-depressants, not to mention that the ones I have seen are upwards of $70-$80 for a 30 day supply. I've tried herbal supplements and OTC treatments for anxiety, but nothing seems to help

 

I know she doesn't do it on purpose.... the other thing I have thought of is putting a doggie door in, but I am not sure if I could get her to use it....and that would be a LARGE hole in the door for nothing

[greysmom]

If you are looking at costs for prescription drugs online, they probably won't reflect prices for veterinary discounts. I get 120 pills (3 month supply) of generic paroxitine (Paxil) from the Costco Pharmacy for $33.07. Their online price checker lists the cost at over $200.

 

You said you "can't deal with" her pooping in the house, yet you seem reluctant to do one simple thing that could help her. Don't make the mistake of attaching a human stigma against anti-anxiety drugs to something that will help your dog. You would give her antibiotics if she had an infection and in her case, anti-anxiety drugs are no different - a fix for a physical problem. Herbal and OTC solutions can help in mild cases of anxiety, but won't if there is a physical imbalance in her brain chemistry causing her to become anxious.

 

If you're looking for an excuse to return a dog you've had for 2 1/2 years, and profess to love, please don't bother. We've heard it all before. If you're looking for ways to keep her, we'll continue to try and help.

 

Make sure she's TIRED before you go each day - even if you have to get up early for an extra long walk or run

Leave her gated in a place where clean-up is easier - a kitchen or bathroom - with blankets you can launder

Give her something to occupy her mind - a frozen Kong or a treat dispenser toy

Leave a radio or TV on for her, even a white noise machine can help

Set up a web cam and watch what happens after you leave - maybe there's some noise or disturbance you aren't aware of

[silverfish]

I don't doubt what is happening, but 3 or 4 piles of poop in the space of 10-15 minutes is just mind boggling.

 

Sweetpea usually manages two poops a day. Sometimes 3.

 

I guess what my question is, could this be a food related issue and not just SA?

 

Are you sure she is going when she gets let out? (It sounds like you have a yard, so I'm guessing you might not know for sure.)

 

Does she have a potty schedule? Sweetpea goes 7:30 am, 3:30 pm and 9 pm with little variance.

Even with your mom coming to let her out, it's good if it's at close to the same time every day.

 

You say you've had her for 2.5 years, has she had accidents inside the whole time or is this new?

(You wrote it's gotten much worse in the last month, I just don't know if that meant she was perfectly

housebroken before or not.)

 

Buzzy

 

Oh, trust me, dogs with anxiety can always find more. I had one who'd poop through anxiety and the volume was unbelievable - it makes them loose, apart from anything else, so everything is watered down.

 

What worked for Jim was plugging in a DAP diffuser (Comfort Zone in the US, I believe) which helped enormously, but getting a second dog really did the trick. With a permanent companion, Jim was finally able to relax.

 

However. Don't neglect separation anxiety desensitising. I notice nobody else has mentioned it, but it is the single most effective way of dealing with this issue. Dogs with SA who destroy things, or soil the house, or vocalise, do so because they don't know how to be alone. If you do a search of the Training and Behaviour forum for 'Separation Anxiety' or 'Separation Anxiety training' you will find a lot of help. If you can't, leave a note here and I'll post how I did it.

 

We've had several dogs over the years who were highly anxious about being left. Mostly they can be desensitised in less than a week. Some take longer, some need additional help (medication, pheromone therapy or a companion).

[Guest mackenzielyn]

Thank you for your continued help. We did some seperation anxiety training when I first got her, so I can try all those tatics again. A webcam is a good idea, I don't know if I am "tech savvy" enough to do so, but i will look into it. I truly wish I could afford another dog it's just too expensive being single... maybe one day though

 

And Greysmom: That was very offensive.

"If you're looking for an excuse to return a dog you've had for 2 1/2 years, and profess to love, please don't bother. We've heard it all before. If you're looking for ways to keep her, we'll continue to try and help."

 

I appreciate the help, but no need to be so harsh. I leave her with plenty to keep her busy, she is baby gated in the kitchen/laundry room and she has a whole box of toys, chewies and the frozen kong she loves...but it's not 'curing' the problem.

 

I will put to practice all the things I can for now, I will save the medication as a last resort...

[Burpdog]

Pooping from SA took me awhile to understand (thanks GHLady ) They can't help it. They lose muscle control and it just comes out. Heart was SO bad -- always pee & poop when left alone (without humans), could not be crated nor gated. I double carpeted the areas (she almost always went in the same place) and ignored it -- cleaned it up without saying a word and cleaned or removed top carpet piece as needed.

[silverfish]

You can also buy puppy training pads, but those would be expensive, too, and it would need her to be going always in the same spot.

 

If she does pretty much always use the same spot, you could do what I heard someone else was doing (a long time ago now) and put down old towels on a waterproof toddler sheet and be prepared to wash them or throw them away and pick up more from charity/thrift shops. Good luck!

[Guest mackenzielyn]

Do you guys think having a doggie door would help when i'm gone? Or do you think it's not going to matter either way? I have talked to my vet about it before, and I called them again this afternoon to start her on something. I feel awful for her I know she can't help it... and it does tend to be in the same place...maybe meds and a doggie door will help?!?!?

[seeh2o]

I feel your pain. I feel like a war-horse when it comes to SA with what I went through with Carl. I agree that it is really helpful to exhaust them with a long walk before leaving home, do extensive alone training, etc. Sounds like you are doing/have done a lot of that already. I agree with the suggestion of using a web cam to see what is happening and when. Maybe nothing changed at your house, but maybe something outside did...someone in the neighborhood's schedule changed, a police helicopter routinely flies over, an ice cream truck has new route, there is a new tamale guy shouting/singing his arrival in the neighborhood, a new mail carrier who makes a racket (to her), etc...she hears it, smells it, it is touching one or more of her senses and is reacting to it...something.

 

I used my cell phone and home phone as a long distance baby monitor. It helped me figure out when Carl was howling, how long and how often. I could intervene and say no just as he started and he thought I was in the house somewhere and would stop! That didn't "fix" the problem, but it helped me understand when/where and sometimes what.

 

I did end up using medication as a tool to help him develop new coping skills and to unlearn the bad habits. I couldn't afford Clomicalm, but when I researched it and talked to the vet about it...human clomipramine hydrochloride is exactly the same medication, just repackaged in different dosages, renamed and repriced $$$. The human version is the same thing and a LOT cheaper than Clomicalm, same thing with the generic of Prozac (I didn't try that, so I can't comment on how well it works). I just priced it for you on the Costco site and it is $31.58 - $37.38 per month depending upon dosage. I also had to give him generic of Valium, diazapam, just to let me get out of the house (this after a 3.5 mile through the hillside trails...steep trails of a local park and breakfast an hour after). I followed this regimen for about 4 - 5 months, I wish I'd kept him on it for 6 - 7 months to make sure the new behavior was really a habit.

 

He's so much better now, he still has SA, but it's mild compared to what it used to be (quickly knocking on wood). What someone else said, routine, routine, routine. If you have a crazy work schedule it's ok, just make sure your routine is about how you come and go, it doesn't have to be about what time of day you come and go, just whenever you come and go you follow the routine to a T.

 

As for poopy pads, the best deal out there on BIG brand new reusable ones is JRs Medical Supply. I can't say enough good things about them. Those pads have saved my floors, my s/o's floors and my friend's floors and they keep on going. I haven't had to throw one out yet! I buy the 34" x 52", they have gone up a little, but they are still a good price at $9.36 each. Big dog, big pee and poop.

 

One last thing, Carl was a prolific pooper, on one walk he topped his best of 7 poops by pooping 9 different times...first 3 - 4 poops were big ones! I switched him to raw...2 - 3 modest hard poops a day. Yay!

 

Best of luck to you, it's hard work to get over this, but you can do it - teamwork!

[seeh2o]

I should think a doggy door would help. Carl's SA disappears when he is at my friend Deb's house or at Ed's house. Both have big doggy doors. I rent, so no doggy door here, it would change Carl's life if I could, though.

 

Maybe try that first, just make sure your yard is super secure (like I needed to say that).

[GeorgeofNE]

I'm sympathetic, truly, because my dog had some major pee issues. But really, worrying about a "hole in the door for nothing" when you have the option of a dog door? Many of us would do backflips if a dog door was an option! Not sure exactly how much a door costs, but if I could put in a dog door there is nothing that would stop me. Alas, I live in a condo on the third floor...

 

I would TOTALLY try the dog door!

 

Also, not to be mean, I know we all have to work, but 12 hours a day alone? Plus your travel time? Dogs are very social creatures. I myself live alone, and I also work, but a shorter day, and frankly, outside of work, I have no life and spend all my free time with George! I'm not sure he could handle 12 hours alone 5 days a week (or more). Please understand this is NOT a criticism. I'm sure you're rather NOT work 12 hour shifts! So I wonder too, could she stay with your Mom? Or a friend?

 

I know how upsetting this must be--for both of you!

[DaisyDoodle]

Before assuming this is SA, I'd rule out all other medical/physical reasons. I would check for worms & other "yukkies" that can cause problems. I would do allergy tests to rule out allergies that cause stool/incontinence problems. I'd also do a neuro work-up to insure that this isn't a problem (such as degenerative myelopathy or lumbosacral stenosis) which can affect nerve functioning, particularly in the hind end.

 

Then, I'd try to find solutions based on the results. I'd start with acupuncture (which can help hind end weakness, anxiety, and probably food allergies as well), and a food for dogs with allergies.

 

If your pup has hind end weakness, it might be a problem to be left on an uncarpeted floor. I know I have had dogs where stools fell out when they struggled to get up. Several piles in a row suggest to me a weak dog that can't stand/squat very well. The camera might help you observe this.

[Guest mackenzielyn]

Thank you for all your encouragement! I "borrowed" a couple blue pads from the hospital today, so I will try to see if they will work leaving them out tomorrow. I work 12 hour days, but only 3 days a week... I would never get a dog if I worked long hours all week! My moms dog stays over a lot too when I work to help Fiona out, and she does better. I don't think it's a neuro problem, but she did have a broken hind leg when she raced, so she does have a lot of weakness and cant squat for very long, im sure thats the reason for the multiple piles

 

SeeH20: **Clomicalm, same thing with the generic of Prozac (I didn't try that, so I can't comment on how well it works). I just priced it for you on the Costco site and it is $31.58 - $37.38 per month depending upon dosage**

How did you get them to fill it as the adult medicine? Do you just get a regular script from the vet? Kroger quoted me $49/ for 30 days!!

 

I will look at doggie doors this weekend. I rent the house from my mom, so I have to make sure it's ok to put one in before I do it and it opens to the yard. I have no concerns about it, but my mom seems to think shes going to get "stuck" outside and it's too much money invested if it dosen't work... but my thought it I can just replace her door when I move reguardless, and its not money out of her pocket!

 

I will start tonight about being more routine in my coming and going... I don't always do the best job of that b\c I get up at 4:30am for work But it is worth it to make sure Fiona is happy...

 

If I could figure out how to add a picture on here, I'd show off my girl!!

 

Thanks again everyone

[Guest IrskasMom]

Would love to see a Pic of Fiona .

[seeh2o]

Oh no, I'm sorry if that wasn't clear! Carl was on Clomipramine hydrochloride (human medication) the generic of Clomicalm (dog medication). Carl was NOT on the doggy version as the human version was cheaper. Carl was not on doggy Prozac, but here is the information on it: Fluoxetine Hcl (generic for human Prozac) is the same as Reconcile (for dogs).

 

The vet just wrote or called the prescription into the pharmacy and made sure they noted that it was for a dog. I pick up Carl's Diazapam (generic for Valium) at the Target pharmacy. I believe the bottle says Carl (dog)!

 

ETA

Check these stores if you have them locally:

KMart pharmacy

Target pharmacy

Walgreens (you may need to get one of their cards...don't know if it's free or not...to get the discounted price)

I don't do evilmart, others do. Your call on that one!

Edited August 13, 2012 by seeh2o