New Grey Started To Growl/bark/mouth At My Daughter

[Guest kirstenbergren]

We have had our greyhound (PJ) for about a month and a half. He is 3 1/2 years old and weighs about 90 lbs. My husband and I have a daughter who is 4 and a son who is 1. Everything has been going great. PJ likes the kids and lets them pet him with our supervision. We have told them never to bother PJ when he is sleeping or laying in his bed(s). For the most part they have been good about it and don't bother him, but when they have, PJ has been fine with it.

 

Yesterday afternoon I was taking a nap in my bedroom and PJ was laying down in his bed (which is next to my side of my bed). My daughter came up to wake me up from my nap and then decided to go down and pet PJ too. He growled/barked at her and went at her head with his head. She said that his nose bonked into her forehead. She was quite upset and so was PJ. My daughter says that she accidentally knelt on his tail and that's why he got mad at her. (He's never really liked his tail touched) She said his eyes were open and he was awake so that's why she went to say hi (even though we've told her not to bother him when he's in his bed). She tried to say sorry (but not touch him), she must have gotten too close and he growled at her again.

 

He seemed to be fine with her later in the day again. He was coming up to her to get pet and was around both kids quite a bit. Then when it was my daughter's bed time she wanted to say goodnight to PJ. She went out into the loft where he was laying down awake (not in his bed, just on the floor) and tried to rub his belly (which he normally lets her do and usually likes her to do) and he growled/barked at her again and went at her head again too. He bumped into her cheek with his nose that time. I told PJ "NO" in a loud voice. My daughter was extra upset this time and I finally got her calmed down enough to get her into her bed. PJ came into her bedroom and put his head on her bed and wanted her to pay attention to him. She pet him and he seemed fine with her.

 

Then when I was going to bed for the night PJ was laying in his bed next to mine and the cat walked by and he growled at him too! He has never growled at anyone before, including the cat. Usually they lay next to each other. Needless to say PJ went to bed with his muzzle on.

 

My husband works overnight (12am-8am) and sleeps when I get home from work until I wake him up for work so I can go to bed. So I'm alone with both kids, the dog and the cat in the evening. Everything has gone smoothly for the past month and a half. I've had no issues whatsoever.

 

We signed PJ up for obedience training starting on Thursday and the whole family is going to go and be involved in that. I really don't know what to do??? Please help me. My kids are now on even stricter rules when it comes to PJ. I'm leaving the muzzle on him more like we did when we first brought him home.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

you already know what the problem is, your daughter is approaching him when he is laying down. Now that she got way too close and hurt him (smashing his tail), he is now apparently wary of her whenever he is laying down. He is still trying to get used to your house, 6 weeks isnt that long. No need to go to the extreme with the muzzle (unless it makes you feel better), just keep your kids away from him when he is laying down, that should be the norm anyway.

[greyhead]

We had this problem with our first grey, starting a month or two after he came to us. A full thyroid panel showed him to be hypothyroid. He only got reactive like that when he felt threatened, as yours seems to do. He had a couple other symptoms, like low stamina for walks (tired after half-mile) and mild seizures. Those problems stopped immediately upon starting medication. Some argue that greys are never hypothyroid, but those of us who have such greys think it's worth checking out. It seems the period shortly after neutering (within a few months) is one likely time for it to emerge as a problem.

 

It is also true that while he's feeling vulnerable, mistakes such as stepping on his tail must not be made! Our experience was that after medication, our dog reverted to the tolerant, confident creature he had been previously. YMMV, of course. Good luck, as I know how disconcerting this is!

 

(We also had a hookworm problem that wasn't diagnosed until later. Between the hooks and the thyroid situation, we had to drop out of obedience training because our dog just couldn't relax enough to learn then in a group context. We wound up training him at home and with our local greyhound friends.)

Edited July 16, 2012 by greyhead

[Guest NSGREY]

Your daughter invaded his space.

 

Now he's feeling nervous about his space being invaded and possibly hurt again plus he's still so new to home living so the rule should be never ever aproach PJ when he's eating, sleeping or on his bed unless you are right there.

 

I have 3 kids and they are older than your 2 kids but they have the same rules in place with my greys, especially in the first 6-8 months of coming into our home.

 

I'm sorry though that your daughter is upset though. She's young and kids just don't always understand fully and PJ is so new to your family. It's understandable that she would want to love on him.

Edited July 16, 2012 by NSGREY

[macoduck]

It took my Gracie a couple of years to stop the sleep startle snapping. The muzzle is a good start but remember it's not PJ's fault. Consider placing his bed within an xpen to prevent future "accidents".

[TheFullHouse]

I would try and teach your daughter to only pet him when he is standing until he has had sufficient time to adjust to being in a home.

[OwnedBySummer]

I would try and teach your daughter to only pet him when he is standing until he has had sufficient time to adjust to being in a home.

This.

[RedHead]

It sounds like the tail experience has made him leary of things approaching his space. I would keep your daughter away for now, but that is not going to solve anything unless you also work on desensitizing him. One thing I do is to throw tasty treats on the floor every time I walk by when the dog is on its bed (as long as he is acting calm and polite). You can gradually get closer and closer. You should see warning signs if he is nervous, there are usually a lot of signs before a growl that you can see if you look closely (head held back, glare with eyes, unsure look/stare etc.). Teague had a few episodes of growling on his bed at first with me and my other dog. I know some people don't agree, but I did verbally correct him when he growled and one thing I started doing was giving him massages sitting with him on his bed (which also helped to get him used to having all parts of his body handled). Now he is totally used to anything on his bed and would never growl at anything, even if startled. I think it is great you are doing some obedience, this will help to build a relationship and trust with him. Don't worry, they do a lot of strange things in the beginning but many times they can be overcome

[Time4ANap]

We have a rule in our house -no petting unless the hound is standing up. Many hounds sleep with their eyes open - it doesn't matter that it was your daughter who approached him, it wasn't personal or directed specifically at her. The same thing would have happened if you reached down from the bed and touched him, or brushed him with your foot getting out of bed if he was startled.

 

I'm sure that your hound probably loves playing with the kids, but they need to understand that if the hound is laying down, they are NOT to approach or pet him. Visitors and the kid's friends need to understand the rule also. He is not necessarily awake just because his eyes are open and it is DANGEROUS to startle him. That does not mean that the dog is dangerous, he is simply protecting himself from the unknown because he was asleep when something touched him.

 

In our house, the people who have made that mistake, (me included) have ended up with a well deserved bite. In both cases, the bite went through the hand completely, I was lucky that it caught the web between the thumb and index finger. The other person needed stitches which brought Animal Control to the house, and a 2 week quarantine with no walks. The other option was that they would confiscate him and keep him at AC for 2 weeks. Fortunately Rocket is a charmer, and charmed the female AC officer who understood that he was sleep startled and allowed the in-house quarantine instead of confiscation.

.

It is an adjustment. Rocket has been here for almost 4 years, and we still don't pet him if he's laying down. His space, is his space.

 

Good luck!

Edited July 17, 2012 by Time4ANap

[GeorgeofNE]

"For the most part" the kids are doing what you told them isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

 

They're VERY young, and it's going to be very difficult for them to understand the rules and WHY there are rules. I could not let your daughter rub his belly or do anything else that has her leaning over him or any where near his bed.

 

I'm sorry the dog scared your little girl, but sounds like she hurt him (of course she didn't mean to) and he's doing the only thing he can and growling--which is just his way of saying he wants her to leave him alone.

[Hubcitypam]

He's growling at the cat and wary of your daughter because he's wigged out about being stepped on and/or someone getting in his space. He's still on high alert

Can you move his bed to somewhere your daughter can approach you while in bed without having to get in his space?

[Batmom]

He's growling at the cat and wary of your daughter because he's wigged out about being stepped on and/or someone getting in his space. He's still on high alert

Can you move his bed to somewhere your daughter can approach you while in bed without having to get in his space?

 

Ditto.

 

And give your daughter a hug from me and tell her it happens to older people too. Dog likes her fine, it's just that when he's lying down, he's sort of in "time out" and not accepting visitors.

[Guest KennelMom]

you already know what the problem is, your daughter is approaching him when he is laying down. Now that she got way too close and hurt him (smashing his tail), he is now apparently wary of her whenever he is laying down. He is still trying to get used to your house, 6 weeks isnt that long. No need to go to the extreme with the muzzle (unless it makes you feel better), just keep your kids away from him when he is laying down, that should be the norm anyway.

 

Yep. This.

[Guest Scouts_mom]

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with everyone about it being your daughter's fault for invading his space. You say you have had him for just over a month--this is something I've often seen when a dog has been in a home about that long and there are kids. Your boy is feeling comfortable in his home and now is thinking about changing his place in the pack. Then your daughter invaded his space--your daughter is not the pack leader so he feels he can challenge/correct her. You need to work at supporting her. You can do this by having her give him treats and have her be the one that sets his food dish down with dinner in it. This will work out.

 

Also remember that if he had really wanted to hurt her, he would have.

[Hubcitypam]

Also remember that if he had really wanted to hurt her, he would have.

Yep, and unless you keep her away from his bed next time he might hurt her....

 

I am not an authority by any means but personally don't buy in to the human Alpha/Pack Leader thing, especially when one of the "alphas to be" is a preschooler.

Readily admit to being mentally impaired (and have a letter from a federal judge saying so) but I've worked with a ton of greys over the years with a great deal of success. I've given the stern word AS AN ADULT (at least in age) and hairy eyeball as needed,and most of my favorable dealings with greys were based on creating mutual respect for feelings and space, not farting over making sure I went through the door first.

 

Putting food down and giving treats does not make an Alpha person (if there is such a thing, especially in the form of a child), it makes a human treat machine.

[kamsmom]

Also remember that if he had really wanted to hurt her, he would have.

Yep, and unless you keep her away from his bed next time he might hurt her....

 

I am not an authority by any means but personally don't buy in to the human Alpha/Pack Leader thing, especially when one of the "alphas to be" is a preschooler.

Readily admit to being mentally impaired (and have a letter from a federal judge saying so) but I've worked with a ton of greys over the years with a great deal of success. I've given the stern word AS AN ADULT (at least in age) and hairy eyeball as needed,and most of my favorable dealings with greys were based on creating mutual respect for feelings and space, not farting over making sure I went through the door first.

 

Putting food down and giving treats does not make an Alpha person (if there is such a thing, especially in the form of a child), it makes a human treat machine.

 

 

My kids have learned that it is ok to say NO! As loud as you need if there is a dog in your way or if they are doing something wrong. They also know that I would never allow any of the dogs in the kids beds if the kids were asleep so they should not be in the dogs beds either, same with being awake. And especially after only a month's time. It easily takes 4-6 months before I feel comfortable with the dog and their personality and sometimes even up to a year or more if needed.

[Jackandgrey]

What everyone else has said about having your kids keep out of PJ's space but be comforted by the fact that your dog has excellent bite inhibition. He is giving all kinds of very very obvious warning signs of discomfort without biting, This gives you the opportunity to fix things without a disaster happening.

 

I like to tell adopters that small kids and dogs - most especially new to home dogs- are like small kids and bathtubs, You never ever leave them alone together and always within arms reach.

[BootsyCollins]

I have a 3.5 year old and another on the way, and our houndwas adopted when our son was a newborn. It took them a good long time to adjust.to each other. Like your PJ, my Bootsy has a heart of gold and as noisy as his objections to being space invaded have been, he has never ever truly snapped or bitten. Just scared the ever loving crap out of us! Keep enforcing those important rules, never leave PJ alone with any child(ren), and all will be well.

 

Good luck

[a_daerr]

You've gotten pretty good advice so far. My first racer, Henry, was always very shy around kids. We did some formal obedience training and (after two years) he's to the point where he'll tolerate kids. He still doesn't really feel 100% comfortable around them. It's a really good sign that PJ generally enjoys the company of your kids. With a little more training (for everyone involved), things will get better. A good trainer will help you work on desensitivization techniques to make PJ feel less guarded. I can pretty much approach, move, or manipulate my dogs in any way without incident. But it's taken a long time to build that trust. Guests and visitors know not to bother the dogs when they're laying down.

Edited July 17, 2012 by a_daerr

[Guest LindsaySF]

Petting when standing up, only. No laying down pets. A 1 and 4 year-old are too young to really understand why, or to be trusted to listen every time, so they need supervision by the parent 24/7. If they are going to come wandering into your room while you're alseep, I'd put the dog's bed somewhere less accessible to the kids, on the other side of the room, in a crate, etc.

 

It has nothing to do with alpha behavior. Having the kids feed him treats is good, so the dog associates the kids with positive things, but it's not a "fix". Not petting him when he's laying down is.

 

It is good that he is growling and snapping as a warning. If this continues and his warnings are not heeded, next time there will be a bite.

[Guest karilynn]

Hi Kirsten,

 

I know PJ - he was in the same foster home as my boy, Bullet. Bullet and PJ were actually pretty good pals in their foster home!

 

I just wanted to add my 2 cents. When I brought Bullet home, he didn't start growling and snapping at me until he hurt his foot and I had to take the bandage off. He clearly was in pain and associated me with it, so he became defensive. He continued growling and snapping for a few weeks after whenever I approached him and he was lying down (I was stupid and took the bandage off when he was lying down). I immediately stopped touching him when he was lying down and only pet him when he was standing up. This is harder to communicate to a child and I understand why everyone is upset, especially your daughter. I was so sad when Bullet snapped at me and I'm 26 years old. But the real truth of the matter is, they are not intentionally trying to upset you, they are just being dogs and doing what comes naturally. This is going to be hard for a child to understand. A few months later, he's improved a lot. I can tell when he doesn't want to be bothered and I leave him alone. He has started coming up on my bed and a few times he growled at me when I disturbed him, which I believe is space aggression, so I said "NO" and made him get off of my bed. He learned after a few times that if he felt as though his space was invaded on my bed, he need not snap at me, but jump off and go to his own bed. I honestly think that dogs do try to push boundaries, especially new ones, to see what they can get away with. They are trying to figure out their place in the pack. I know some people don't believe this, but to each their own I guess.

 

I would say, from now on, do not let the kids approach him while he's lying down. Let him come to them when he wants pets and attention. That's what I did with Bullet. Time and patience is key. These dogs take time to adjust and learn the ropes. He also may just be upset over his tail being stepped on and is now on guard.

[Guest kirstenbergren]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone! I really appreciate all the help. I kinda guessed what everyone would say, but I just wanted some reassurance.

 

I've always watched the kids around PJ and make sure that my 1 yr old doesn't crawl/walk up to him. It was a surprise to all of us when my daughter went up to him while waking me up from napping (my husband didn't come up with her) and he growled/barked/snapped at her. My daughter (and all of us) are on strict orders not to bother PJ when he is laying down anywhere. If he is up and walking around I encourage him to come by us and get some attention. All seems to be well with this. My daughter understands that I want all of us, including PJ, to be safe. She now knows that the best way to be safe is to leave PJ alone if he is laying down. Everything has been great for the last few days. He hasn't growled at anyone including the cat.

 

We start obedience training tomorrow night. Wish us luck!

 

 

I know PJ - he was in the same foster home as my boy, Bullet. Bullet and PJ were actually pretty good pals in their foster home!

 

 

Karilynn- We should get Bullet and PJ together sometime to play. Do you have a fenced in yard?? We don't. Or maybe you know of somewhere we could meet up? The guys would probably enjoy seeing each other.

 

Thanks everyone! -Kirsten

[TheFullHouse]

Good luck with the obedience class. Sounds like things are better! Just for a laugh, the not touching the dog on the bed training stuck with me to the point where here I am years later and I still don't touch my dogs when they are on their beds. I could I just don't.

Edited July 18, 2012 by JillysFullHouse

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

I don't know if anyone has said this, but don't correct the dog if he growls, Maybe people will disagree with me. but I think growling is natural and good. (People get grouchy too!) If they learn not to growl, they may be more likely to snap first. I have kids and have had lots of dogs. Sometimes the trust bond between the 2 takes some time. Good luck!

[Guest kirstenbergren]

Just thought I'd post a picture of PJ.....