Weird Episodes - Need Input Asap

[Guest limbrooke83]

DeeDee recently started showing some weird symptoms, and I am looking for advice and input from other experienced greyhound owners. Here is the background: DeeDee is 5 years old. She has always had very healthy vet exams and recently got a clean bill of health on May 8th. At that veterinary appointment, the only odd symptom I had noticed was a slightly decreased appetite. I figured it was probably due to a recent change of diet from Purina Pro Plan Shredded Chicken and Rice to Taste of the Wild, but asked the vet anyway. The vet ran bloodwork and did a very thorough physical exam and said DeeDee was fine, aside from needing a dental, which she received a few days later without any problems.

 

We switched DeeDee to a different flavor or Taste of the Wild, but her appetite remains the same - decreased from her normal eating frenzy level food drive. She is unwilling to begin eating on her own, although once she starts she will eat four or five bites before needing prompting to continue eating. Her drive for training treats, however, remains unchanged.

 

Two days ago, on June 10th, DeeDee woke up from a deep sleep next to me and acted strange. She stood up with her tongue hanging out the side of her mouth and looked and acted very blank or out of it. She didn't respond to any verbal or even physical stimuli. About a minute later, she snapped out of it and went back to her normal self.

 

Tonight, June 12th, DeeDee had another episode, but this one was very different. She stood up and came to stand near me, very alert as if she heard something strange outdoors. DeeDee is not a jumpy or nervous dog, so this is very out of character for her. She was shaking physically and panting hard. My husband took her out, and she seemed alert and happy coming in, but was still shaking very hard. It was like muscle trembling in her entire body. Her heart beat was normal, though I do not know what a normal rate should be for a healthy, active greyhound. We applied a "hug like" pressure around her, and she seemed to calm a bit. We put a semi-tight dog shirt on her hoping to calm her if it was some sort of nervous issue, even though that is very out of character for DeeDee. Five minutes later, she seemed to go back to normal. About five minutes later, we noticed there was still some shaking, though we're not sure if this was a second episode or an extension of the first. It seemed to wax and wane in intensity and lasted about five minutes again. DeeDee was alert and responsive during both of the episodes this evening.

 

Does anyone know what this might be? I will absolutely be talking to her vet, but am not sure whether she needs to go tonight, although if it doesn't stop soon I will be calling the emergency line. Any help would be greatly, greatly appreciated... DeeDee is my lifeline... thank you!

 

-Brooke

[spottydog]

No advice, just wishing the best for you and DeeDee.

[Guest limbrooke83]

Thank you. A quick update: I called the vet's emergency line when the shaking/panting didn't fully stop. The vet said she has a few ideas. One is that it could be seizures, since there are different types of seizures and being "blank" and "out of it" is one type, and shaking/panting is another. Another idea is that it could be a sign of pain, although based on DeeDee's activity levels and other things I don't believe that's the case. The third idea is that it could be low blood sugar. I am thinking/hoping this is the case. The first day DeeDee did the "blank and out of it" thing she had been extra active and may have burned through some extra sugar. The same goes for today - she did quite a bit of running. She has been much more active overall this week than usual. Also, the change of food could explain it because TOTW is much healthier and may have less sugar and/or carbs in it, though I haven't checked that out yet. The vet wants me to bring her in tomorrow morning at 9 AM for an EKG and blood work, and we'll go from there... wish us luck!

[seeh2o]

No advice, but I am sending good thoughts to you and your girl.

[hikinghounds]

The weird episodes you describe sound like they could be small seizures to me. What you describe is very, very similar to what I've seen in my boy who has seizures. I hope it's not, and I don't know how that would be related to food, but you probably want to talk to your vet about it. Good luck, sending positive thoughts to your girl.

[Riverhound]

Good luck tomorrow! She's a lovely dog, and I know extra special because of all she does for you.

[greypuppyluv]

Recording these episodes somehow would probably be very helpful to your vet, so if they happen again, you may want to try that. They may be seizures....there are different kinds. Here are some websites on canine seizures you can check out:

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/basics/basics_index.html

 

I hope you are able to find out what's going on. Going through something like this can be very scary.

[FiveRoooooers]

My two cents? Does DeeDee's diet have to be TOTW? That is on the latest food recall list, is it possible that you got a bad bag? There are many food threads here discussing "good" vs "bad" kibbles, often the "bad" stuff is what works. As to DeeDee's behavior, what is the weather doing before/during/after her episodes? Our dogs are incredibly sensitive to weather changes and it can affect some of them dramatically. My Seamus, a healthy 12 y.o., is spot-on accurate about an impending storm, much more reliable than the professional forecasters, and he does what it sounds like DeeDee is doing: the in-your-face stare; rapid heartbeat; panting. Just something else to consider. Good luck with your sweet girl.

[Guest limbrooke83]

Thanks, guys. The vet had suggested I give DeeDee a tablespoon of Karo syrup and a baby aspirin (Karo syrup in case it was blood sugar, aspirin in case it was pain) last night, and one or the other fixed the problem completely for the night. I'm really thinking it was the Karo, which leads me to believe this may be a classic case of "hunting dog hypoglycemia" or exertional hypoglycemia. Because DeeDee is a service dog, and my health has not been so great, her activity level over the past week (we had another service dog team visit us from out of state) has been more than she is used to, since my activity level had to go up by necessity. She loves her work and never hesitated about doing her job, but these episodes occurred on nights where she not only did her job but also had time to run and play quite a bit more than usual. Since hypoglycemia can cause all of her symptoms and was one of the things that came to mind for the vet, and since the symptoms went away after the Karo syrup was administered, I'm thinking this has to be the cause... We will see the vet in just a few hours. DeeDee will not be eating before we go, so hopefully the vet can do a simple blood test to confirm my suspicions. If it is exertional hypoglycemia, at least that would be easy to treat/prevent. Right?

 

As far as TOTW goes, we live in a state that was (thankfully!) unaffected by the recalls, since none of the recalled bags were shipped here to Iowa. With DeeDee remaining fairly active and needing to be in good physical shape for her job, I need to make absolutely sure she gets all the proper nutrients in her food, rather than allowing her to get by on a lower grade of kibble as many pet dogs can do. DeeDee's job requires physical strength, mental sharpness, and stamina. If it turns out she just plain doesn't like TOTW, I may try mixing some of it with the Pro Plan Shredded she seemed to enjoy, or I may simply keep trying other top quality foods until I find one she likes, lol. It's just so unusual for her to turn her nose up at *any* offered food that I'm almost positive this has to be a symptom of whatever is going on for her physically. And while I assumed a hypoglycemic dog would be more hungry, not less, a friend pointed out that if DeeDee is feeling unwell in general she may not want to eat. Hopefully this can all be fixed with more frequent feedings / smaller portions, or the feeding of a food with higher sugar / carb content. Or something like that, lol...

 

Again, thank you so much to everyone who has replied. I'll be sure to post back with what the vet says...

 

ETA: Oops, forgot to mention - no strange or changing weather near the time of DeeDee's episodes. It's been sunny w/pretty stable temps here in Iowa.

Edited June 13, 2012 by limbrooke83

[Guest HHHounds]

Hope you can figure out what is going on with the sweet DeeDee... We have used ProPlan for years on all our hounds and have had no issues with it. We have had healthy, happy hounds who enjoy their dinners...

[Feisty49]

My fussy and intestine-sensitive Annie Bella was liking Iams in the Green Bag (not the greatest kibble but she had good poos on it). A couple of things happened that put her off eating anything, and when all was said and done, she would not go back to eating the Iams. I introduced her to Nutro Venison with Brown Rice and she *loves* it. Just tossing an idea out here for food to try that many consider good quality. BTW, I had no problem giving Annie Bella Iams, though many look down their noses at it, but when she wouldn't eat, after months of enjoying it, I moved on.

[duncan41]

Someone on this forum said that the best food is the one on which your dog does best.

[PrairieProf]

TOTW is really not low-carb to the extent that it would cause the symptoms you are describing, not that low carb would in the first place. Remember grain-free does not mean carb-free in the least. There have been a lot of issues with TOTW quality lately, although Iowa's supply does not come from the SC plant that was the basis for the recalls. I'm frankly glad I'm not feeding it anymore. But I highly doubt it's about food anyway, or many more greyhounds would be having issues like that with food changes or whatever. It sounds neurological to me.

 

Really sorry DeeDee has been "off" -- I know how terribly worrisome that must be for you in particular. Hope you can get to the bottom of it with your vet -- or it's just one of those things that disappears.

[BatterseaBrindl]

that you get to the bottom of DeeDee's issues quickly. Edited June 13, 2012 by BatterseaBrindl

[hikinghounds]

I hope the vet visit goes well. Please let us know what she says. I'm curious about the hypoglycemia from exertion. I've wondered about that too, although the main cause of my boy's seizures are from encephalitis he had a year ago. But a few times I've noticed if he doesn't eat a good meal and/or has been running and playing hard he can be off. I feed TOTW too. Mine can be very picky eaters. I was feeding EVO chicken and turkey but they just didn't really like it. I got a bunch of samples of different no grain brands and flavors and did a little taste test. Some they wouldn't touch, others just so so. They seemed to like the TOTW High Prairie best so I went with it. You might just need to find a food with the flavor she likes best. Glad she did better last night.

Edited June 13, 2012 by hikinghounds

[Guest limbrooke83]

Thanks, guys. The vet visit went pretty close to how I expected it to go. The vet asked some questions, did an EKG, urine test, and who knows what all else, and agreed it sounds like a classic case of exertional hypoglycemia. However, she looked in some book that told her greyhounds are prone to a certain type of arthritis (I forget the name), and while DeeDee is only 5, is in great shape and at a healthy weight, and shows no signs of pain or slacking off even when doing very physically demanding work, the vet decided to rule it out first by putting DeeDee on a pain medication for awhile. She gave me the medicine as well as instructions to wean DeeDee off of TOTW and put her back on Pro Plan Shredded for now to see if she still wants to eat it like she did before. She also told me to do Karo syrup if another episode occurs and to be sure to call her the next morning and let her know it happened, since that would mean it's definitely not a pain issue and we would need to work on diet/etc changes to fix the hypoglycemia. If no more episodes occur, I am to call the vet on Saturday morning anyway to let her know it's going well and go from there.

 

The vet was totally awesome. I even heard her explaining to the techs in the back room that DeeDee is a service dog, what it is she does, and that I would have to wait for DeeDee since I needed her for safe navigation (i.e. "get this dog done first"). When she got the test results, she went over them in detail with me. The only thing it seemed she wasn't sure about was on the EKG. The biggest peaks had a significant difference in their height (sorry, don't know the technical terms here). The vet said in most breeds that could signal that one side of the heart was enlarged, but she said she's guessing this is a normal result in a greyhound. Does anyone here know for sure? Also, I noticed on the copy of DeeDee's test results I received that the platelets and white blood cells were below the "normal" range. The platelets were 164 K/uL, and the white blood cells were 0.06 K/uL. Is this also normal for a greyhound? I know they have different blood values than most dogs, and the vet wasn't concerned (and is pretty greyhound savvy imo), so I'm guessing it's okay? Also, her urinary chloride level was slightly high at 124 mmol/L. I have no idea what that even is, so I thought I'd post it here in case it gives anyone an idea.

 

Thank you all so much for the help! I'll keep you posted as things progress.

[JenniferS]

The symptoms you described in your first post remind me a lot of episodes my Quiet Man used to have. We never got a concrete diagnosis, but many described it as what happened when their dogs came out of a seizure.

As far as the food, I continue to feed TOTW with no issues. They never actually tested positive for salmonella, they only voluntarily recalled as a precaution.

[Guest snakes]

Just our own experiences here but FedX has seizures that jsut manifest as staring bankly, freezing and then trembling to a slow collapse, sometimes it is just freezing in place and staring off. My UPS once started acting strangely and then got a bout of pancreatitis, a decreased appetite was the first symptom that manifested into not eating at all. This all happened after being on TOTW buffalo version for a month (she tolerated chicken just fine).

My first grey had bizarre symptoms after switching her food (to one she would eat!), i went back to an old food and the symptoms all dissapeared.

So unless you changed anything else in your pups ruitine I would tend to go with the fact the food doesn't agree with your pup.

[hikinghounds]

Thanks for the update. I'm glad she is doing well and the vet thinks it's the hypoglycemia rather than something more serious. I hope all the other test results are good too. I know greyhound blood levels are a different, but I'm not sure of the specifics. I hope Dee Dee keeps doing well.

[BrentsMom]

An insulinoma,( pancreatic tumor)

 

My sweet momma had one... It will cause hypogylcemia. Which caused my momma to become weak, collapse and seize... Sometimes she'd be dazed and confused.

 

Only way we were able to diagnosis is was with an insulin glucose ratio test... We did EKG, cardiac monitoring, ultrasound... All came back normal...

 

I was told by one vet... If sugar/corn syrup stops the seizure... You know your dealing with hypogylcemia..

 

We did frequent meals/snacks and prednisone.... Eventually we started with diazoxide, which we had to have compounded..

 

Surgery wasn't an option... We did regular glucose monitoring, with our own meter.. We learned to when her sugar was low.. We kept her going for a good 1.5 years..

 

Feel free to contact me...

 

Good luck....

 

 

 

 

[PrairieProf]

You clearly need this, Brooke -- OSU info on greyhound bloodwork ranges.

https://ckm.osu.edu/sitetool/sites/greyhoundpublic/documents/About/Newsletters/GHWPSpring2012.pdf

Edited June 14, 2012 by PrairieProf

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I know how important DeeDee is!!! I am your friend on FB, with Pepperoni who's grandpa is DeeDee's daddy. Hoping she is just fine!

[Guest greytbig]

My 7 year old, Snappy, has seizures only occasionally. (thank goodness!) The symptoms you describe are identical to his behavior, following a seizure. In his case, because the seizures happen only 2 to 3 times a year, we have not considered medication. I know some folks whose Hound is on daily meds. His seizures are quite severe and very frequent. I can't say whether that has anything to do with the appetite. I understand your concern, as seizures are a scary thing for dogs. (and their humans) You are doing just as we do, post-seizure.....giving lots of love, assurance and comfort. It's all you can do at that time. I hope you are able to get some answers or comforting news from your vet. I love DeeDee's story and all of her accomplishments and wish you both the VERY BEST.

 

 

Joannie Foster

[Guest limbrooke83]

Thank you, guys. DeeDee had no issues last night, although she also didn't have any unusually high exertional activities yesterday. It was her first day on the pain med too, but I'm 99.999% sure she's not been in any pain. Still, we will continue the pain med through Saturday at least when I have to call the vet back with a report. That way if she does have another episode we can rule out pain for sure. I'm still pretty sure it's exertional hypoglycemia, but after a more active than usual week, neither of us will be going out and pushing ourselves again anytime too soon, lol. If she has no more episodes before Saturday, I'll probably talk to the vet and take DeeDee off the pain meds, since as I said I don't believe she was in pain anyway. Then if she does have another episode in the future I can try just the Karo syrup (no baby aspirin), and if it fixes it, we'll know what the problem is. We're doing half/half with DeeDee's food now (half TOTW and half of the old food she liked), but she's still reluctant to eat. Hoping once we're switched back 100% to the pro plan shredded she'll go at it eagerly again.

 

You clearly need this, Brooke -- OSU info on greyhound bloodwork ranges.

https://ckm.osu.edu/...PSpring2012.pdf

 

Thank you! According to that, the only "abnormal" result on DeeDee's tests was an elevated urinary chloride level, but it obviously wasn't anything that concerned the vet, so I won't worry about it. It also makes me feel good to know that my vet knew enough to not be concerned about the other results.

 

I know how important DeeDee is!!! I am your friend on FB, with Pepperoni who's grandpa is DeeDee's daddy. Hoping she is just fine!

 

Thank you! I recognized you immediately from your username on Instagram. I love how dogs so closely related can look so different from each other...

Edited June 14, 2012 by limbrooke83

[mychip1]

Good wishes for DeeDee.