Teaching Personal Space?

[vjgrey]

Nick has been home since Sunday, and he's pretty much a puppy in a four year-old, 80+ pound body. He's SUPER high-energy, runs around the house like a crazy dog and chews on everything he can find. [Yeah, I know a tired dog is a good dog - we're working on it].

 

The biggest issue, though, is that he has NO concept, whatsoever, of personal space. He's constantly stepping on, jumping over, or running into our girls. He'll actually step on them and not even pause - he doesn't even seem to notice they're there. He outweighs Diamond by 20+ pounds and Lucy by 30+, so I'm afraid he's going to seriously hurt one of them. Or me, hobbling around on crutches. Especially since most of the time, he's running/jumping around the house like a nutcase. It might help if the girls would correct him, but they don't. They just try to move out of his way.

 

Any advice on how you teach a dog to observe personal space? It breaks my heart to see him (literally) walking all over my girls.

Edited April 26, 2012 by vjgrey

[JohnF]

Did your vet say he can see OK on both sides? It isn't right that they walk on each other.

[vjgrey]

He was fully vetted by the track's vet just a few weeks before we brought him home, so we haven't taken him in for a wellness check yet. It's something I'll ask about when we do, although he doesn't seem to have any issues with his vision. He'll follow treats with his eyes and finds the most random things to carry off and chew on.

 

He just seems to have no awareness of where he is and the other hounds are in space. Or that they can't occupy the SAME space.

[gazehund]

I am certainly no expert but I had that same issue with Crackerman when he came home. He was always allowed to wander around the kennel with JT while he was racing. When he went to Signature, he had his own space. When he came home to live with us, everything was his. All the beds, all the toys, all the bones. Everything. That was all he knew. If he wanted to run over to the window to look out and he had to run over a hound or two on the way he did. This lasted until Dodger and Pooter got sick of it and they put him in his place. He is still a big, rude, clumsy galoot but he is trying. If he doesn't try quite hard enough he gets a growl or a mouthful of teeth in his face. He is learning. I am thinking your girls will eventually get to the point they are sick of getting run over and put a stop to it too. Could be wrong since I don't know your dogs. That was my experience though. Good luck.

[Burpdog]

When you figure it out, let me know.

 

It breaks my heart to see him (literally) walking all over my girls.

 

That part hurts (figuratively and actually)

 

Batman is crazy (although he told the communicator he was not crazy, he was boisterous) and has no idea of space and he boings everyway -- he does not walk or run. I've learned to protect the unsuspecting.

 

I've had others get better with time. Isaac did. The boys seem to be worse about space than the girls.

[NeylasMom]

In theory I think you could teach a cue that means "stop right there" and when you see him about to run over one of the girls, give the cue then redirect him around the girls, but that would take a decent amount of savvy I think.

 

Otherwise, I think having him learn something like "easy" and working on general self control/restraint may help. Think about what he gets worked up for. Grabbing the leash to go for a walk? If he starts running or jumping around, say "easy" in a very low, calm voice and stop dead in your tracks. When he's calmed down (he doesn't have to be stopped, just moving calmly and not bumping into other people or dogs), start moving toward the door. As soon as he gets worked up, say "easy" again and stop. Repeat ad nauseum. Same thing with getting a toy to toss, his bowl of kibble to him, etc. Basically, he gets NOTHING of value, including attention from you, unless he's exercising some restraint/self-control.

 

I don't know how well that will translate to how he acts around the girls overall, but if you do see him about to run one of them over, at least you'll have the "easy" cue to fall back on to slow him down.

 

In the meantime, can you tuck the beds the girls are used to using in out of the way places, corners, next to large pieces of furniture, so they're less likely to get trampled on?

[vjgrey]

In theory I think you could teach a cue that means "stop right there" and when you see him about to run over one of the girls, give the cue then redirect him around the girls, but that would take a decent amount of savvy I think.

 

Otherwise, I think having him learn something like "easy" and working on general self control/restraint may help. Think about what he gets worked up for. Grabbing the leash to go for a walk? If he starts running or jumping around, say "easy" in a very low, calm voice and stop dead in your tracks. When he's calmed down (he doesn't have to be stopped, just moving calmly and not bumping into other people or dogs), start moving toward the door. As soon as he gets worked up, say "easy" again and stop. Repeat ad nauseum. Same thing with getting a toy to toss, his bowl of kibble to him, etc. Basically, he gets NOTHING of value, including attention from you, unless he's exercising some restraint/self-control.

 

I don't know how well that will translate to how he acts around the girls overall, but if you do see him about to run one of them over, at least you'll have the "easy" cue to fall back on to slow him down.

 

In the meantime, can you tuck the beds the girls are used to using in out of the way places, corners, next to large pieces of furniture, so they're less likely to get trampled on?

 

Part of the problem is that he's pretty much worked up ALL the time. This afternoon, DH took all of the hounds out to the back yard for a 45 minute zoomie/stuffy chase session. My girls (8 1/2 and almost 5) are done for the night. He napped for half an hour, and now he's hyper again.

 

I'm pretty sure he's only pretending to be a greyhound.

 

We do try to keep the girls out of the way, but it's hard because he's all over the place. Just this evening, Lucy has started to growl (tiny, baby growl - adorable) and show teeth at him, but he really doesn't seem to notice. She loves EVERYONE, adult, kid, hound, other breed, so it's weird to see her get riled.

[NeylasMom]

I have 2 words for you: chew toys. We've used bully sticks for years and after recently researching other options, I'm still most comfortable with them. But I may also try soaking a rope toy in broth, and I've got some Himalayan chews waiting to be tested. But if you're comfortable with rawhide, I read that the rolled retriever rolls (you have to look to make sure it's one large piece rolled up rather than bits pressed together) are the safest choice. Or some people like deer antlers. Crate or gate him if you need to and let him have at it for an hour or two a night.

 

I'll save the dissertation for another time, but the short version is dogs need healthy outlets for all of their natural doggy behaviors and I think we often forget about chewing. Even with raw feeding, I am finding Violet (who was a LOT like what you're describing when she arrived) needs more time chewing. Or if on the rare occasion I haven't been able to get them their normal long walk for some reason, it's a good substitute. Chewing is very tiring.

 

Of course the best thing I've found is an entire in tact cow foot. I'm lucky that my raw dog meat supplier can get them from a local farm for me. They are EXHAUSTED after working on that for an hour or so.

 

Also, training. Mental exercises for tiring a pup out are underrated.

 

This isn't going to solve the problem, but it may bring him down to a level where you can try the other stuff I suggested.

[cleptogrey]

he's a young 4 year old, immature and will learn what you want him to know but it takes time, patience and practice. start w/ basic manners, waiting for food when you feed him, waiting to get leashed. count to 10, then increase the count before you give him food or what ever. it sounds like he needs a job! obedience training and eventually getting into RALLY O or AGILITY will do that. but learning the basics in a good class should exhaust him and do remember to practice(not once a day but intergrated in your daily interactions w/ him). does he fetch tennis/soccer balls? i lob tons of tennis balls around when felix gets a workout. i stand in the middle of the yard and send them in every direction, that keeps him going and pretty tuckered out.at one point dh figured out the yardage and he was sprinting around 700+yds during a play period. now that he's 5 he usually only needs to play once a day, but just last year he could play 3xs a day with out batting an eye!

exercise, patience, training....all in due time!

[jetcitywoman]

I think the best way for a dog to learn doggy manners is for another dog to teach him. So let him step on one of your girls and let her correct him. Which of course, means muzzling them so they don't actually hurt each other. But a severe growl and snap will tell him quite clearly that he's done wrong.

[Guest LindsaySF]

When I have a rambunctious foster I keep them leashed in the house for a while. Some of my dogs will correct unruly behavior, some won't. For those that won't, and are bound to be trampled on, I make sure they have a safe zone to retreat to (cage, ex-pen, behind baby gate, etc).

 

Exercise the crap out of him too.

[GeorgeofNE]

I've always believed dogs teach each other these things. If your girls aren't doing anything, they probably don't mind.

[vjgrey]

Exercise the crap out of him too.

 

We're trying, but he's been impossible to wear out. We have a big, fenced back yard, but he's shown very little interest in running in it. We've tried tossing stuffies, balls, frisbies. We've gotten the girls to run to see if he'll chase them. He won't run out there but turns into a jumping, running nutcase when we get him inside.

 

This afternoon, DH took him for a mile run, and he (Nick) was barely out of breath when they got back. He threw himself around the room with stuffies until I thought he was going to hurt himself. And he's been barking/whining/pacing for the last several hours.

 

He ate a bully stick in less than 15 minutes and chewed a big chunk of rubber out of a kong in less than five.

 

I think he probably needs obedience classes and WAY more exercise, but since I'm on crutches, that won't happen for another six weeks or so.

[Greyhoundcastle]

Ah, Val! I feel for you - hang in there!

 

We had the same thing back in November with a new resident "galoot" - 85+ pounds, bouncy, doofus, standing in the wrong lines when gracefulness and brains were being handed out - and he was EIGHT years old!!! He ran into/over/on top of everybody else; finally, somebody took high exception to that, growled deepley, nipped (no serious damage inflicted) and things settled down.

 

Time and patience, my friend.

 

 

Annie Lambert

[Burpdog]

This afternoon, DH took him for a mile run, and he (Nick) was barely out of breath when they got back. He threw himself around the room with stuffies until I thought he was going to hurt himself. And he's been barking/whining/pacing for the last several hours

 

Does he have a backyard to do laps in?

[vjgrey]

This afternoon, DH took him for a mile run, and he (Nick) was barely out of breath when they got back. He threw himself around the room with stuffies until I thought he was going to hurt himself. And he's been barking/whining/pacing for the last several hours

 

Does he have a backyard to do laps in?

 

He does, but the goofy boy won't run in it! He can be bouncing off the walls inside, and as soon as I put him outside, he just wants to slowly amble around and sniff. We've tried getting the girls to do zoomies - he just looks at them. We've tried a makeshift lure pole with NO interest. He doesn't seem to like the grass.

[sobesmom]

Geez - I don't know what to tell you. The whole time we've fostered I've had my Sobe "the fun police - mind your manners" and/or my Diana "I'm the queen - watch you place" to teach proper manners to new dogs.

 

Dogs off the track can be totally clueless about space issues. I've always had a resident dog that taught them appropriate manners. Never any altercations - just a simple growl, look, or snap. Heck, when Sobe was here - he could subdue a foster with the raise of his head and never get off his bed. I guess I'm lucky - I've never had to teach space-respect, dogs have taught dogs in my house.

 

Do you think your girls will get fed up and step up to correct the new one? If they do - and growl or snap - DON'T freak out and correct them. Sounds like the new one needs to be taught dog-manners.

[vjgrey]

 

 

Do you think your girls will get fed up and step up to correct the new one? If they do - and growl or snap - DON'T freak out and correct them. Sounds like the new one needs to be taught dog-manners.

 

Yep. That's exactly what happened. Diamond finally snapped at him, and they both started to growl at him. After a few days of that, he started to step around them more carefully. He still steps on them sometimes when he's backing up or when he's hyped up and running around, but he's doing much better.

[sobesmom]

 

 

Do you think your girls will get fed up and step up to correct the new one? If they do - and growl or snap - DON'T freak out and correct them. Sounds like the new one needs to be taught dog-manners.

 

Yep. That's exactly what happened. Diamond finally snapped at him, and they both started to growl at him. After a few days of that, he started to step around them more carefully. He still steps on them sometimes when he's backing up or when he's hyped up and running around, but he's doing much better.

 

VERY GOOD. You were right to be concerned, and ask for advice. In my opinion - the BEST dog owners are the ones that ask for help BEFORE an issues becomes an issue.

 

I'm glad your girls stepped up and put the new kid in his place - and taught the manners that are appropriate for dogs. And good for you for allowing it to happen. The fumbles that still happen in play, will be accepted, or dealt with - between the dogs.