Osteo Thread

[greysmom]

I also switched Dude onto a modified cancer diet, high in cruciform veggies and dark fruits, in addition to his no-carb kibble (Canidae). I bought prepared "broccoli slaw" from the store as it had most of the best stuff in it and I didn't have to cut it up! Just a handful on top of his kibble. Then threw on some berries (blue, rasp, black), and some cottage cheese. He loved it!

Can you tell me what's in the broccoli slaw? I have a food processor, so it'd probably be pretty easy for me to whip some up for Pinky and Ace. They are already on low-carb kibble (TOTW), so adding in the things you mentioned will be relatively easy for me to do.

 

Pinky was able to have her second chemo today Dr. Thomsen had to rush into an appointment, so I didn't get to ask what her counts were-he's going to call me in a little while.

 

I'm so sorry to hear about Shimmie

 

Broccoli, carrots, cauliflower, and one other veggie I can't remember - turnip? Something like that. I mostly researched human foods that fight cancer and added in what I could, whenever I could. Fortunately, Dude would eat just about anything and loved fruits and veggies! I forgot - Green beans and tomatoes too!

[Guest snakes]

Broccoli, carrots, cauliflower, and one other veggie I can't remember - turnip? Something like that. I mostly researched human foods that fight cancer and added in what I could, whenever I could. Fortunately, Dude would eat just about anything and loved fruits and veggies! I forgot - Green beans and tomatoes too!

 

 

I used to make a mixture of broccoli, cooked carrots (wouldn't eat it if they were raw), cauliflower, chopped spinach, butternut squash. tried teh green beans and they wouldn't eat it, sometimes the spinach turned them off, sometimes not.

 

Sometimes they will eat it and sometimes not, so i usually just do it a week at a time every 3 weeks. For awhile they loved if i put a can of chicken or tuna in the mixture

[krissn333]

Thanks guys! I'll pick up some good stuff and just make a big bowl to take from.

 

No signs of nausea from Pinky

[Guest snakes]

Thanks guys! I'll pick up some good stuff and just make a big bowl to take from.

 

No signs of nausea from Pinky

 

I forgot to add that i would make a big batch and freeze smaller portions that would last 2-3days, the veggies start to go kinda sour/rancid after a few days.

[krissn333]

Oh thanks for the tip!

[krissn333]

Just talked to the vet's office-Pinky's NEUTROPHIL count on Saturday was 4300!!!! It was 1600 the Thursday before.

[Zoolady]

Well, unfortunately I must renew my membership in this club. Ben was diagnosed today. I posted it on Heath and Medical but now I belong here. Here was the last post there.

 

"Just got home. Dr. Moore was just as helpful, kind and considerate as he was with Wonder. I'm sorry to have to report that the diagnosis and options are not good. Osteosarcoma of the right hip, starting at the top going about half way down the ilium. The good news is that it's not the side of the hip that is more weight bearing.

 

Apparently Tuesday when he was playing and collapsed, the bone got a tiny fracture and the bleeding showed up in his groin and legs which is what sent us to the emergency room Saturday.

 

We discussed the possibility of infection and he asked if Ben ever raced in the Mississippi or Gulf Coast region and he did not. Apparently there is a fungus problem that can infect bones but we ruled that out.

 

Then he asked if we needed a definite result and talked about the bone biopsy. Somewhat invasive and painful and could do more damage to the bone which we didn't want. He did not recommend FNA because you could hit an area where there is inflammation only and not pull any cancer cells out when indeed they are there. We said no to that.

 

We reviewed him not being a good candidate for anesthesia and he was cautious about that.

 

Next option was radiation to slow it down. Possible but could because of where the cancer is, the radiation could damage or inflame internal organs which would give us another not so good outcome.

 

We went to the next option that is surgery. He could remove the area where it is but the problem would be if he doesn't get it all, it could grow back within a few weeks. There is also the possibility that he could damage nerves and Ben would lose the use of his legs. No to that too.

 

Next option was chemo and he offered to let us talk with the oncologist. We talked about every 3 weeks he could have chemo and perhaps alternate with a bone builder. He would need blood work every time. This would not be a cure but perhaps give him more time here. The cost would be $600 to $800 a treatment. Thank God Ben has insurance and it would cost us only 10% after the deductible is met. The hospital takes care of all the paperwork but we have to pay them 25% up front and it all adjusts as the insurance company pays.

 

It is an hour's drive one way and I know from the osteo thread that sometimes they can't do chemo and send you away to try another day. Scott and I both work but I work at the University and have vacation time I could use as long as the new boss would be understanding. Scott is his own boss and must work so I would be doing the appointments.

 

Dr. Moore took Ben off of the Tramadol and put him on Rimadyl instead. He said he wants to save the Tamadol for when the Rimadyl isn't working as well.

 

He also saw something at the top of the other hip but wasn't sure if it was an old injury or if the cancer had spread to that hip.

 

He said to go home and think about it and then we will get back to him.

 

So, sadly, I will rejoin the osteo thread. Thank you for all your help, suggestions and support. It's nice to know you are here and always willing to help."

 

I will have to read what I've missed and prepare for another fight. This really sucks.

[Texasgreys]

Well, unfortunately I must renew my membership in this club. Ben was diagnosed today.

I am so sorry you had to renew your membership. I, too, am back - with my little Irish girl Tallulah who has a tumor on her spine which might be osteo.

 

I've lost dogs before - heck, I had a 17-month period where I lost 5 personal dogs and 2 hospice fosters - but this one is for some reason so very hard for me. I am struggling whether it's time to let her go, or if it's okay that she stay here - she's not in pain but I don't want to set the bar that low.

 

I wish I had someone to help me decide whether Luli is ready to go. Times like this I hate being alone.

[krissn333]

I'm so sorry to both of you - renewing your membership is not fun

 

Well, unfortunately I must renew my membership in this club. Ben was diagnosed today.

I am so sorry you had to renew your membership. I, too, am back - with my little Irish girl Tallulah who has a tumor on her spine which might be osteo.

 

I've lost dogs before - heck, I had a 17-month period where I lost 5 personal dogs and 2 hospice fosters - but this one is for some reason so very hard for me. I am struggling whether it's time to let her go, or if it's okay that she stay here - she's not in pain but I don't want to set the bar that low.

 

I wish I had someone to help me decide whether Luli is ready to go. Times like this I hate being alone.

You know, when it comes to things like that, I am glad that I am alone. I do see a lot of couples have a lot of differences of opinion between them when it comes to end of life decisions. It ends up making those last days even more upsetting than they have to be...lots of back and forth instead of spending that precious time with the pet. Being the lone decisionmaker in my mind makes things so much easier.

[BauersMom]

So sorry to hear about Ben.

 

 

 

Dr. Moore took Ben off of the Tramadol and put him on Rimadyl instead. He said he wants to save the Tamadol for when the Rimadyl isn't working as well.

 

 

 

 

The only comment I have directly about your situation is don't hesitate to add the tramadol back at any signs of discomfort. I don't like the idea of "holding back" pain meds when dealing with a terminal disease.

 

I posted this as an individual thread but this probably the best place to put it.

 

We went to the vet on Thurs and got x-rays done on Shimmie and the results came back just like I thought they would. At 1st the vet didn't think it was osteo but did the x-rays and low and behold there it was. She did a film of his neck and it was there too. When she saw it she went ahead and did a chest film and it has started to metastasize in his lungs and in his brachial lymph nodes as well.

 

He is on Tramadol for now and will start on a NSAID on Monday (had to get off pred 1st). He seems so much worse since his visit... I'm figuring that he is sore from manipulating him to do the x-rays. Yesterday he was sooo uncomfortable I thought it was the end. I haven't had a pup on Tramadol in awhile and although he is resting okay he is really loopy. He is taking 50mg 3 times a day. He is 70lbs now. For those of you with Tramadol experience, how did your puppers 1st react?

 

I know cancer never comes at a good time but we have to move this week (foreclosure) and this is gonna be tough. At least the new place we are moving to only has 1 step to go outside.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

How is Shimmie doing?

[Zoolady]

So sorry to hear about Ben.

 

 

 

Dr. Moore took Ben off of the Tramadol and put him on Rimadyl instead. He said he wants to save the Tamadol for when the Rimadyl isn't working as well.

 

 

 

 

The only comment I have directly about your situation is don't hesitate to add the tramadol back at any signs of discomfort. I don't like the idea of "holding back" pain meds when dealing with a terminal disease.

 

 

 

We do have a whole prescription of Tramadol so will give it at the first sign of pain. We did get a pleasant surprise today from Ben with the Rimadyl. He is like a younger dog. He is alert, came to the front door upon our arrival home and even was standing at the kitchen door like he used to (he's done neither in a while-just slept). This morning after he ate he actually started a little run (which of course I had to stop). He looked at me like, "What's the problem?" Actually has a sparkle in his eyes again. Thinking back, it's been a while since we've seen that. We'll take anything happy we can get.

 

Didn't have much luck speaking to the oncologist. One of her nurses called me back and said I would have to come in with an appointment to ask questions and that the doctor doesn't consult over the phone. I mentioned we saw Dr. Moore yesterday and he offered to let us speak with her and our mindset wasn't allowing that part of the process to happen. Today, I had questions. They had an 8am or a 1pm appointment tomorrow and that was their only openings for several weeks unless they could squeeze me in. I told them it was an hour's drive each way for five questions? I would have gladly paid a consultation fee but she didn't ask for that. Frustrating. We just started our Spring semester at school and it's difficult to get time off right now.

 

I did some of my own research and thought I'd ask the Osteo Club my questions when I get my thoughts combined.

 

Has anyone had a pup with ilium (big flat hip bone) cancer?

[vjgrey]

We did get a pleasant surprise today from Ben with the Rimadyl. He is like a younger dog. He is alert, came to the front door upon our arrival home and even was standing at the kitchen door like he used to (he's done neither in a while-just slept). This morning after he ate he actually started a little run (which of course I had to stop). He looked at me like, "What's the problem?" Actually has a sparkle in his eyes again. Thinking back, it's been a while since we've seen that. We'll take anything happy we can get.

 

 

I'm so sorry about the diagnosis, but aren't these "surprise" moments great? It makes me SO happy when Gabe goes back to just being Gabe. Even/especially when that means he's being naughty and stealing chicken off the kitchen counter (which he totally did a few nights ago).

 

He had a CBC and chemo follow-up appointment this morning, and everything looked great. His oncologist said he showed no signs of pain - didn't even flinch or look at him when he handled his osteo legs.

 

I'm just holding my breath and hoping this lasts. He'll have his pamindronate treatment again next week.

Edited January 12, 2012 by vjgrey

[krissn333]

It's snowing like crazy here - the pups were ECSTATIC this morning. I wish I'd had my camera handy - it was fun to see Pinky just shoot out the door like a rocket to play in the snow

[NeylasMom]

So sorry to hear about Ben.

 

 

 

Dr. Moore took Ben off of the Tramadol and put him on Rimadyl instead. He said he wants to save the Tamadol for when the Rimadyl isn't working as well.

 

 

 

 

The only comment I have directly about your situation is don't hesitate to add the tramadol back at any signs of discomfort. I don't like the idea of "holding back" pain meds when dealing with a terminal disease.

 

 

 

We do have a whole prescription of Tramadol so will give it at the first sign of pain. We did get a pleasant surprise today from Ben with the Rimadyl. He is like a younger dog. He is alert, came to the front door upon our arrival home and even was standing at the kitchen door like he used to (he's done neither in a while-just slept). This morning after he ate he actually started a little run (which of course I had to stop). He looked at me like, "What's the problem?" Actually has a sparkle in his eyes again. Thinking back, it's been a while since we've seen that. We'll take anything happy we can get.

 

Didn't have much luck speaking to the oncologist. One of her nurses called me back and said I would have to come in with an appointment to ask questions and that the doctor doesn't consult over the phone. I mentioned we saw Dr. Moore yesterday and he offered to let us speak with her and our mindset wasn't allowing that part of the process to happen. Today, I had questions. They had an 8am or a 1pm appointment tomorrow and that was their only openings for several weeks unless they could squeeze me in. I told them it was an hour's drive each way for five questions? I would have gladly paid a consultation fee but she didn't ask for that. Frustrating. We just started our Spring semester at school and it's difficult to get time off right now.

 

I did some of my own research and thought I'd ask the Osteo Club my questions when I get my thoughts combined.

 

Has anyone had a pup with ilium (big flat hip bone) cancer?

If you had a consult with the oncologist, they should answer your follow-up questions via either email or phone. I would call back and see if you can get someone else. I found it was often an uphill battle with the vets we dealt with, you may have to fight a bit to get what you need.

 

Deramaxx always did a lot more for Neyla than Tramadol did, but you are much more limited in how how you can increase the NSAID. I actually think the Gabapentin may have been more effective than the Tramadol as well so you might consider adding that in next.

[Zoolady]

I haven't actually had a conversation or appointment with the oncologist (see post 261) yet. My five questions have now become thirteen. Tomorrow I will call the surgeon's nurse and see what I should do as far as getting answers. Maybe if anyone has time, they can see if my questions are reasonable? Am I forgetting to ask something I should?

 

If she has every treated a dog with iliac cancer?

 

What is the timeline for this type of cancer based on her experience?

 

Type of chemo typically used for this cancer?

 

Does she alternate chemo types and use a bone builder?

 

I'm concerned about how the appointments happen. Do I stay or drop him off. Time is important because it's an hour drive to get there.

 

How much additional time for the blood work?

 

Any typical side effects for greyhounds?

 

Can treatment be stopped if the dog is reacting badly or once you start you must go back until finished?

 

The cost estimates need to be told to us too.

That's about all I have for now. I'm sure there must be more.

 

Oh, some good news. Trupanion already approved the two claims, our deductible is met, and for anything related to Ben's cancer, it would only cost us ten percent. They are sending a check out for the 90% we already paid less the deductible.

 

I just want to do the best for Ben. Do we do pallative care only and give him the best life we can while he's here or do we put him through chemo to try for remission when we know what the inevitable is?

 

It's so hard to make a decision. It just breaks my heart to see them suffer. The surgeon did say though that he will not be in a lot of pain until the cancer reaches the lower leg. He could give no time line on how short or long that could take. It just depends on how fast or slow the cancer spreads.

 

Okay, I'm rambling so will step away from the keyboard.

[tbhounds]

Zoolady-just want to repeat myself here-- make sure you get chest rads before going forward with any other treatment.. If Ben already has mets it my can your course of action.

Edited January 13, 2012 by tbhounds

[JJNg]

Didn't have much luck speaking to the oncologist. One of her nurses called me back and said I would have to come in with an appointment to ask questions and that the doctor doesn't consult over the phone.

While I understand that this is frustrating, it is standard practice by specialists. And IMO it is not unreasonable for them not to do phone consults for patients they haven't seen for an appointment. Most of your questions would best be answered during a consultation appointment. This way the oncologist will have all the details of Ben's case, can meet you and examine Ben in person, and can provide you with answers specific to your situation.

 

Maybe if anyone has time, they can see if my questions are reasonable?

I think you have some great questions. The more detailed ones would best be discussed with the oncologist in person at a consultation. I understand that you're reluctant to make an appointment with the oncologist since it's a good drive, and you're not sure if you even want to pursue chemo. But sometimes starting with a consult is what you need to help make that decision.

 

I'm concerned about how the appointments happen. Do I stay or drop him off. Time is important because it's an hour drive to get there.

 

How much additional time for the blood work?

These are questions you can ask the receptionist at the oncologist's office. You can often have the bloodwork done by your local vet and just fax the results to the oncologist.

 

Any typical side effects for greyhounds?

This may depend on the specific chemo drug they are recommending, but in most cases, potential side effects for greys are the same as for any other dog.

 

Can treatment be stopped if the dog is reacting badly or once you start you must go back until finished?

Chemo can always be stopped or adjusted if the dog reacts badly. The goal of veterinary oncology is quality of life - they do their best not use doses that make patients sick, unlike human medicine (where the goal is often to increase the chances of a cure). And if the standard dose of chemo causes problems for an individual dog, the oncologist will often either decrease the dose or switch to another drug.

 

The cost estimates need to be told to us too.

This will somewhat depend on the protocol you choose. If you want to try to get a ballpark figure, the receptionist at the oncologists office may be able to give you a basic idea of costs for chemo for osteosarcoma. If they won't give you this info directly, try asking the vet you've seen to find out for you as he will have more detailed information that may help them with an estimate.

 

Do we do pallative care only and give him the best life we can while he's here or do we put him through chemo to try for remission when we know what the inevitable is?

This is probably the hardest part of the decision. It's a very personal one based on knowing your dog's personality, your own philosophy and beliefs, as well as your financial abilities. Having Trupanion at least helps take much of the last factor off the table, so you can focus on the other aspects of the decision. Best wishes for you and Ben, and I hope you're able to get a lot more quality time together, regardless of what decision you make.

[BauersMom]

Good advice by Jennifer above.

 

I also second the chest x-rays - we did ours at the first appt with the oncologist. That first appt was actually several hours - they ran tests, leg and chest x-rays, and then we discussed the different courses of action possible for Berkeley's situation. We then took a week to think about what we wanted to do. But the appointment was where we asked all the questions, etc.

 

Our onco vet is 90 miles away, so I get how hard it is to make that sort of drive routinely. Thankfully, we both had enough vacation time accrued that we could make it work.

[Zoolady]

Zoolady-just want to repeat myself here-- make sure you get chest rads before going forward with any other treatment.. If Ben already has mets it my can your course of action.

 

They did chest and spine too. All clear.

[tbhounds]

Zoolady-just want to repeat myself here-- make sure you get chest rads before going forward with any other treatment.. If Ben already has mets it my can your course of action.

Yea!

They did chest and spine too. All clear.

[krissn333]

That reminds me...Pinky will be having new chest rads at her next chemo appointment. A new thing to worry about

[BauersMom]

That reminds me...Pinky will be having new chest rads at her next chemo appointment. A new thing to worry about

 

We have our 6 month ones coming up at the end of the month. I've been stressing about that for about 3 weeks already.

[Zoolady]

Thank you jing. Your comments were very helpful and calming. Tomorrow I will definitely call and make an appointment for a consultation with the oncologist.

 

He was so cute this morning standing at the sliding glass doors looking outside to the bird feeders. I had just fed the outside wild birds and he was watching them, tilting his head left and right as they flew around from feeder to feeder. He is eating well and getting up to greet us when we come home, plus standing at the kitchen at meal times which he hasn't done in a while. He has the chewable Rimadyl and thinks they are a treat.

[BertnLil]

Lily left us tonight. What originally started as osteo took a spin for the worse. Will post an update in Remembrance when I can. I know you all do, but please hug your hounds tonight. No regrets.

[45MPHK9]

Lily left us tonight. What originally started as osteo took a spin for the worse. Will post an update in Remembrance when I can. I know you all do, but please hug your hounds tonight. No regrets.

 

I'm so sorry.