Osteo Thread

[vjgrey]

When Gabe was in on Thursday for his Pamidronate drip, he somehow tangled himself up in the IV line while trying to lay down and pulled it partially out of his leg. It left an ugly looking bruise but seemed fine otherwise. Until this morning. His whole leg Is swollen, and he has a walnut sized fluid-filled mass just below the IV site. Of course, everyone at his oncology and radiology offices are off for the holiday, so we spent the morning at the eVet associated with his oncology center.

 

We're doing warm compresses, massages, and watching it. Poor buddy.

Edited December 31, 2011 by vjgrey

[krissn333]

Aww, poor Gabe! Hope it resolves soon

[BauersMom]

Oh no, Gabe! Gotta be careful, buddy.

 

I have to admit, I wasn't sure if we'd see 2012 with Berkeley when he was first diagnosed in July - so I consider this a milestone of sorts. I had lost two of my three-pack this year, it would have been tough to lose all of them in such a short time. He's doing great and I can't ask for more.

 

Happy new year to everyone!

[krissn333]

This is a very odd sentiment...of course no one appreciates their dog having osteo, but in a way I'm very glad for the experience I've had thus far with Pinky. I've certainly come to know her better and I think that she has become a more lovey dog through this. She has always been a sweet girl, but never was an attention hound. In a way it's as though she looks to me for support now more than ever. I know that makes sense given the time spent during her recovery from surgery, but it's something more that I can't explain. She doesn't NEED special intensive care anymore, doesn't need any special accommodations...but she DOES want more hugs and scritches than she was ever interested in receiving before.

 

Sutra and I were always very close, but I think that's because he was sick when he came to live with me. Nursing him back to life from pancreatitis was a tough battle and I had to learn how to understand him very quickly in order to keep him alive.

 

It's crummy that it takes an illness to lead us to such a deep understanding of our babies, but we take things as they come and if that's what happens, all we can do is put one foot in front of the other.

[joejoesmom]

This is a very odd sentiment...of course no one appreciates their dog having osteo, but in a way I'm very glad for the experience I've had thus far with Pinky. I've certainly come to know her better and I think that she has become a more lovey dog through this. She has always been a sweet girl, but never was an attention hound. In a way it's as though she looks to me for support now more than ever. I know that makes sense given the time spent during her recovery from surgery, but it's something more that I can't explain. She doesn't NEED special intensive care anymore, doesn't need any special accommodations...but she DOES want more hugs and scritches than she was ever interested in receiving before.

 

Sutra and I were always very close, but I think that's because he was sick when he came to live with me. Nursing him back to life from pancreatitis was a tough battle and I had to learn how to understand him very quickly in order to keep him alive.

 

It's crummy that it takes an illness to lead us to such a deep understanding of our babies, but we take things as they come and if that's what happens, all we can do is put one foot in front of the other.

 

I so totally understand this. Not that I wish illness on any furkid, but taking care of an ill dog does seem to strengthen the bond; long after the illness is under control or even cured.

[krissn333]

Thanks, Jane. I'm glad I'm not the only one. As in any relationship, weathering the storm together almost always strengthens the bond, and these circumstances are no different.

 

I hope and pray that all of my babies are here to celebrate 2013 with me!

 

A very blessed New Year to all of you. Though unfortunate circumstances have brought us all together, I am so thankful to all of you for your support

[GreytHurleyDawg]

I have been away from this thread so long (my subconscious takes over and steers me away to happier places sometimes, not to mention work and holidays sucking my time away) that I had to go back to page 7 or something!!

 

Happy New Year Everyone! I am sorry to read of some new members. I hope everything is going alright for everyone.

 

I just wanted to post a piccy of Hurley and give you his update and some of my thoughts. The ups and downs with Gabe have been intense though...I hope everything calms down again for him! <3 <3

 

Hurley is doing very well, I don't think his immune system is too bad off, we are scheduled for chemo #3 on Wednesday this week. I will wait and have his blood drawn then and maybe ask about the numbers since we are all curious. I want to compare the cost of doing it there vs with our regular vet ($42 CBC) anyway. He runs, he eats, he plays, he roaches, he snuggles, he very rarely whines (which IS something he used to do when he wanted to go upstairs to our bedroom) and he is enjoying life!! He loves going for leash walks and car rides, he is adorably excited all the time. He still hasn't mastered the (3 in the back and 2 in the front) steps...somehow his motivation just isn't there or he is squeamish about hurting his leg. But I do not think it's anything to worry about. His remaining rear leg does seem to buckle quite frequently so we think he isn't getting quite as much exercise as he needs. We have discussed upping his leash walks to at least one a day. With the weather coming in the near future, I don't know how that will affect our plans. He gets pushed by Woodie (our 90 pounder) in the house and his leg will buckle too. But Woodie has always been too pushy and Hurley and Petra have always been forced to move or blocked, as the situation may be by Woodie's oblivious movements (someone mentioned the term bull in a china shop...that's him!). My worry would be that something was happening in his remaining leg but I thought I'd post here and see how other tripods do with the weight-bearing that must be done. He has to hop to move, of course, and I still feel slightly surprised each time I see it.

 

Kristin, I know how you feel as well about not wishing this on anyone but glad to still have your beloved pet with you and fighting this so well. I completely understand!

 

My pic, finally!

Here is Hurley after he set up the tree, strung the lights and decorated it with all of our ornaments!

He was damn tired after all that festive work!

 

And, panning back a little bit, this is where his supervisor hung out:

 

Alright, i admit that neither dog had to do any work except give me moral support, and THAT they did! I had the best Christmas tree this house has ever seen!

 

Stay healthy and happy as long as you can!!!!

[Charlies_Dad]

Kristin, yes we feel the same way with Charlie. His illness has brought us a lot closer together and we really have seen his persona change once he became a tripod.

 

Johanna, just to respond to the leg buckling, Charlie's does this sometimes as well. While the pictures of him outside playing in the snow make it appear that his one rear leg is super strong, he does sometimes buckle when he is standing still (not often) and sniffing around. What I have noticed is that it typically happens when he tries turning and doesn't hop into a new position or when he is pushed by Jack (very very rare). It's as though his balance goes off a bit.

 

Valerie, sorry to read about the mishap with the IV and having to go to the e-vets. I hope Gabe's leg swelling goes down quickly, we're all pulling for the sweetie.

[vjgrey]

I woke up with the feeling that someone was looking at me. Quickly realized that Gabe was standing on his bed, staring at me intensely. When he realized that his "willing" me awake worked, he playbowed and barked his happy bark. What a great way to start 2012!!

 

His leg is still swollen but does seem to be going down some. He's walking a bit gingerly on it, but I think that's because the thickness makes it feel weird. It doesn't seem to hurt.

[krissn333]

Gabe

[TwiggysMom]

I'm so glad that Gabe is still being his happy self, despite his IV incident. Hopefully, that lump will go away soon!

 

Kristin, I also know how you feel. I keep referring to Twiggy as Twiggy+ now. It is like losing her leg just made her more of herself. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I'm focusing completely on her now, instead of fostering nearly all the time. But, other people have noticed the difference in her, too. It is like she just has extra joy in her all the time!

 

Re counts, none of my vets ever give me the full reports, but they do give me a summary with the neutrophil counts. At 2055, the oncologist said she was borderline and wanted to wait a week (the only treatment she has had postponed so far); at 2090, she said Twiggy was good to go and got her treatment. That seems a pretty narrow split between OK and better wait, but... Her neut counts have ranged from 2055 to 7100 (7100 was one week after the 2055). Her baseline from a year before the cancer was 2109.

 

Friday is Twiggy's last chemo (if her counts are OK).

 

How soon after the last standard treatment do you usually start a metronomic protocol? I still have to decide what to do. Twiggy's oncologist doesn't know much about artemisinin (which I definitely want to do) - she was concerned that it would interfere with the rest of any metronomic protocol. I told her about the full medical study going on using it as part of a protocol, and she acted like she suddenly vaguely remembered reading a paper about it.

 

We've also had a good start to 2012. Yesterday started out quite warm and sunny (for Chicago). Twiggy wanted to go for a long walk. She is looking for something, I don't know what. When I let her decide which direction to go, she stops at many intersections, looks around, sniffs, then makes her choice and continues on. She always tries to go toward the expressway. When we get there and can't go any further, she does the best she can to follow the side alleys that run along or near the expressway. When I try to turn her toward home, she plants her feet and refuses to budge. When I relent, she determinedly hops along her way again. All told yesterday, we went at least 4 miles. We never did find what she was looking for. I sure wish I knew what she was thinking. A couple years ago we were searching for a lost greyhound that got loose in that area. I wonder if she is still looking for him.

 

Sorry, I got pretty off-topic here. Happy 2012, everyone!

[krissn333]

Well, that makes sense then, if Pinky's neutrophil count was 1600, that's pretty low. Hopefully it will go up in time for our re-try on Saturday. Have any of you had to postpone AGAIN when you went in for the re-try?

 

Sutra was on artemisinin. It's a base part of any metronomic protocol, I'm pretty sure, so I can't imagine it would interfere with anything. Seems most people do a cycle - a week on, a week off, or two on, two off...Sutra certainly didn't have any issues with it, if that's what your vet is worried about.

 

Fingers crossed that Twiggy's counts are good and she can get that last chemo out of the way

[BauersMom]

Berkeley never had to postpone twice in a row, no. I'm sure it's possible though, the longer they are on chemo (the later treatments really plummeted his numbers...).

 

Berkeley is also happier now than he was, say, 8 months ago, for sure - but for him, I do think it was a pain thing. He's clearly in a much better place as far as that is concerned! But he and I have a very close bond and that really didn't change after the amp. Then again, he has had like 4 different near-death experiences, so we might have already gone through the bond strengthing part of illness.

 

Here's a video from the other day of him happy to go for a walk. He's certainly not doing 4 miles though! Damn, Twiggy.

 

[krissn333]

Berkeley My eyes are leaking

[GreytHurleyDawg]

Oh Berkeley, Oh Twiggy, Oh Pinky, Oh Charlie and Gabe! (I definitely have santa's reindeer lineup in my head right now!) It is good to hear (and SEE) good news from the hounds! 4 miles! Hurley is jealous: it is supposed to warm up here by the end of the week so I hope to get a nice, long walk in when I have another couple of days off. Berkeley sure is excited! And adorable, my eyes didn't leak but I wish it was the middle of the day right now and that I was about to take Hurley and co. for a walk.

 

In more detailed response to the bond with Hurley, I have to give him extra attention right now (which I enjoy!) but this illness kind of gives me an excuse for it to be "okay". I always tried to give equal attention to the pups but it is Hurley who most responds to it and has always most needed it. This isn't his first brush with serious illness either. He has had two prior ICU stays and worries me the most. He is also a companion hound who loves people versus the attitudes of my other two who don't have that need for attention as much. So, I have extra thoughts for Hurley Dawg and I feel okay about it. He has started whining in the mornings now, especially when he hears us awaken (alarm goes off, we hit snooze or reset time...we live the luxurious mornings due to our 2nd shift jobs) and I think he gets lonely downstairs. I will probably have to sleep on the couch for the last hour or so in the mornings!! He does love to snuggle. I definitely don't want to feel like I didn't do everything for him, both emotionally and medically, so it is nice to take the time to look back at life instead of always going forward.

 

Thank you, Kyle, for writing that about Charlie. I don't know if it's the rear leg vs the front leg amputation that throws me off a little but when I see a pic of a front leg amputee standing strong...it's like Hurley doesn't quite match up to that brave face because his missing leg is behind him. So, from a side view, I see him using his two front legs normally and the rear one hops behind and is doing a lot of work to keep up with the ambition of his front two legs. Hurley was always a giddy and agile jumper so he never looked like he needed his front legs at all....his back legs sprung him forward. I was afraid I would feel like this but I don't feel emotion about it, I just notice it. i certainly don't mean to scare anyone either, just that for me, the transition seems gradual.

 

Ok, last topic....has anyone asked you if they need a prosthetic leg? The answer IS no but I wonder how a prosthesis could be used and whether anyone has used one. I'm just curious. I think it would get in the way if the dog wasn't standing during use. But if there was one that was easy to clip on, how would that help and be used? I know, you can file me away in the nutso cabinet but sometimes asking the obvious questions leads to good discussion or good ideas!

Edited January 2, 2012 by GreytHurleyDawg

[krissn333]

Johanna, I've wondered a lot about a wheelchair too-I do know that they make them. For rear leg amputees, I would think that the transition wouldn't be all that tough. Just something that crossed my mind...while Pinky is only 8, if we truly have caught this as early as we think we have and she will be with us for a good long while yet, I wonder about something like that for her as she ages....

 

Nothing wrong with pondering!

[krissn333]

I am a sucker for a hound being happy, especially after something like an amputation. I cried like a baby when Pinky didn't need my help in the yard anymore, when she started moving a little bit faster, and when she was able to keep up with Ace while playing in the yard.

 

I cry when I go to the racetrack and see the hounds doing their thing-such unbridled passion just really gets me. Same with the Triple Crown in horse racing...it's just so magnificent to see...

 

So when I saw Berk dancing around in his ADORABLE coat, so excited for his walk, I teared up a little. He's so handsome as it is, and then it's fascinating to me to see a front leg amputee getting around since I don't see that on a daily basis here. To see him so happy and so normal after this journey he's been through just blows me away...all of the pups here do. They are the perfect example of the reason why people shouldn't pity an osteo pup, but stop and celebrate life with them instead. After all, they're happy and bouncy, who needs to have pity on that kind of attitude?

[TwiggysMom]

Actually, they do make prosthetic legs for dogs. However, I think they need at least 2/3 of the leg remaining (if I'm remembering correctly). A friend pointed me in the direction of a company that makes them, and I checked it out; but it doesn't seem viable for osteo amputees because as much leg as possible needs to be removed, but the prosthesis needs as much leg as possible available. (right there in the nutso cabinet with you, Johanna )

 

Another issue is "penciling" which is pretty much what it sounds like. The remaining leg bone is prone to poking through the base of the amputation site. Combine that with the super-thin greyhound skin that doesn't even hold up well to a splint, and I think that mostly rules it out for our osteo hounds.

 

Carts are a possibility for rear leg amputees (the type that allows the rear hips to rest in a sling and moves along on 2 wheels), but they don't make carts for front-leg amputees.

 

On a different subject, as great as it is that Twiggy can go those long distances (and still has energy terrorize her stuffies as soon as we get back in the house after... ), I feel a little sad because I can see that she is searching for something. I so wish I knew what it was and could help her find it.

 

Johanna, it's funny that you mentioned your surprised by Hurley's hopping. I still expect Twiggy to have 4 legs sometimes (usually when I get home from work, for some reason). I think it is because she is SO normal and happy, it doesn't seem possible that anything is wrong!

[BauersMom]

They are the perfect example of the reason why people shouldn't pity an osteo pup, but stop and celebrate life with them instead. After all, they're happy and bouncy, who needs to have pity on that kind of attitude?

 

That's exactly it - after he was first diagnosed, I had a really hard time... lots of crying, upset all the time (understandably, of course). And at one point when I was lying in bed feeling sorry, my husband said "Stop mourning him while he's still here!" Every once and a while I start to get depressed and mopey, but for the most part, I try to make sure that I'm enjoying him while he's still here and enjoying every moment we have together.

 

He is an incredibly happy dog and it does make me mushy inside too. I get teary-eyed at the track, too.

 

The day after this video, he did the same happy dance except this time with toy flinging. Adorable.

Edited January 3, 2012 by BauersMom

[krissn333]

I cried when Pinky was diagnosed but it was somewhat belated...kind of odd I suppose. I'd been through the diagnosis phase with Sutra, but I think the reason I was so stone faced in the wake of Pinky's diagnosis was because it was so straightforward-she limped, I squeezed her leg, she cried, I had her xrayed the next morning, I got a consult with the orthopedic surgeon, we ran the other tests, we scheduled surgery. I was like a robot the whole time.

 

It wasn't until the night before her surgery that I completely broke down...I think more out of fear about the upcoming surgery than anything else. Then of course I just totally lost it when I dropped her off that morning. Thank goodness the techs there are so sweet.

 

After I got her home it just seemed like things were so much easier for me emotionally. I think it's because when it falls to me to deal with her, I can keep a pretty cool head. But when there's that factor of the unknown thrown in there, my mind comes up with all kids of ridiculous scenarios, because when I have to put my trust in someone else to deal with her, I get worried. Yes, I'm a control freak

[joejoesmom]

They are the perfect example of the reason why people shouldn't pity an osteo pup, but stop and celebrate life with them instead. After all, they're happy and bouncy, who needs to have pity on that kind of attitude?

 

This is such a great statement, and important for me to remember. I could learn so much from my Joe -- I need to be sure I listen.

[GreytHurleyDawg]

Well said, Kristin!!

 

Maybe I have been affected by people that do have pity in their eyes when they see Hurley. I don't know if it's true pity or a lack of understanding how he manages but there is NO reason to pity these guys. Celebrations are definitely in order!!

 

I never mean to come across as sad and complaining so I apologize if I do but thanks for being here everyone! I just need to remind myself of how unforgiving cancer is and be glad for the good times we are experiencing now and hope for more good news as treatments progress: for everyone!!

[vjgrey]

Gabe goes in for another try at Chemo #3 tomorrow. We've been giving him antibiotics all week, so our fingers are crossed that his white blood cell count is back up.

 

The swelling in his leg/foot FINALLY went down today, and the leg looks almost normal again.

 

He's NOT excited about going out for bathroom breaks in this cold DC weather, but apart from that, he's a happy boy. Which means his mama is happy, too. :wub:

[BauersMom]

Yeah, Gabe!

[krissn333]

Good deal, Gabe!

 

We're schedule for Pinky's second try at her second chemo treatment on Saturday. I hope that her neutrophil count has improved

 

I also got ahold of Dr. Less to see if I could bring Ace in - the scar from her big tumor removal seems to be doing well, but just to the right of it there are two little granule-sized bumps that have me concerned...little tumor seedlings? I sure hope not. But, if they might be, he should be able to remove them really easily since they're tiny. I figure best to jump on it his time rather than take the "wait and see" approach. I'll also be asking Dr. Thomsen about the 5-FU protocol to see if we can do that with Ace.