Feeding My Dogs A Vegan Diet

[Xan]

I've spent many many hours (okay, days!) working out how to feed the dogs vegan home-cooked meals in the last few weeks, inspired by Deanna's meat-bunnies thread (thanks for the push, D! )

 

Research, spreadsheets, calculators, joined a Yahoo group, bought a book (wish I'd bought a different one ), downloaded a bunch of .pdfs, made head-dents on the computer screen .... It's amazing how little, really, is readily available in terms of simple recipes! There's the AAFCO nutritional requirements, and lots of nutritional and health info out there (much of which seems conflicting!)

 

Finally, based on lots of suggestions from people who've fed their companion animals vegan for many years with fabulous success, and my own research, I've come up with a spreadsheet to help me calculate soy- and corn-free recipes for my 3 dogs. I've got 6 in there so far.

 

*WHEW!*

 

If any of you want to share the spreadsheet, I'll send it to you, but you'll have to dink around with the input for your dog's or dogs' weights.

****DISCLAIMER: I am not a nutritionist, and there may still be some math mistakes ('cause I'm hopeless at math!), though I've spent nearly as much time working on the numbers as on the ingredients.

 

I'm using Vegedog supplements to make sure I get the important stuff covered, but lots of folks make do without. I've read in a few places that many/most dogs in some countries (India, Mexico)are never fed meat, but eat the same vegetable-based food that their owners eat (though they may scavenge or hunt on their own), and live and prosper that way.

 

I've been transitioning my three over the last several days, with nary an extra toot. Everyone slurps up whatever they find in their bowls and leaves them shining. No Big D, no gas, no complaints. They're still on about 1/3 regular kibble, because I'm too cheap to not use it up.

 

Cooking time is still a little high, since I'm still very much in the learning and experimenting zone. For instance, I've just started sprouting, with varying success (lentils and quinoa: good. Pintos, garbanzos and rice: no success, or not yet, anyway). The hubby and I have eaten well by sharing the basic meal with the dogs, but adding seasonings (onions, garlic, extra herbs and salt, etc.) separately, so the cooking has benefitted us all.

 

So far, I'd say a huge success.

 

Kitties, you're next!

 

The Whys, so you don't have to ask:

1. Ethics I'm an ethical vegan, because I want to do NO harm to my fellow animals. That's a high goal, and impossible to achieve, but it's a goal worth coming as close to as possible. Having companion animals for whom I'm responsible who eat meat makes me responsible for the meat they eat. In MY case, and for MY pets, that means that getting closer to the No Harm goal is to feed them no animals.

 

2. Nutrition and Health As long as my pets have a human to chew (grind up) and cook their food for them, it doesn't matter where their nutrients come from. Amino acids are the same no matter where they grew. Same for vitamins, etc.. If I'm in control of the quality of their food sources, we're a lot less likely to run into spoilage or contaminant issues than we would be with commercial pet foods, or even a raw-meat-type diet. Their food will be fresher, that's for sure, than when I get the 40 lb. bag of kibble from CostCo!

 

I've also read great things about dogs (and cats, for that matter) having huge improvements in skin conditions, gorgeous fur, good weight, curing of various chronic ailments, that kind of thing. My crew are pretty healthy, but Brilly's fur could be nicer, and two of my old cats have had urinary issues, and one is looking decidedly scruffy.

3. Aesthetics and food safety Once the transition is complete, I won't have to ever be grossed out by, or worried about the pets' food splashing or coming in contact with any of our food. I won't have to keep separate sponges and scrubbers just to clean their stuff and the counter I prepare their food on. I can lick my fingers when I make their dinner! I'm looking forward to that like you wouldn't believe! (The not worrying part, that is. I'm not THAT into licking my fingers when filling dog bowls! )

 

4. Economics Not so sure how this will work out, yet. The supplements are expensive to start, but the main ingredients are pretty cheap, so hopefully it will even out. As I get more confident, I will probably not worry so much about the Vegedog supplements, which will definitely bring the price down.

[Guest sheila]

I don't spend that much time figuring out what to feed myself! What you suggest is just nuts.

[kudzu]

Other (please post what that might be!)

Well, ok.

 

Am not of the opinion it is the healthiest approach for dogs. Am also not saying it can't be done nor am I going to try to talk you out of it. I am just plain not interested in trying it with my dogs.

[DevilDog]

I am not vegan so my dog's will not be vegan. I'm totally cool with others doing it if they have success and everyone is healthy and happy, but not for me.

[Guest Energy11]

I totally respect humans who choose to eat a Vegan diet, but dogs? No ... by nature, they are meat eaters.

 

Good Luck with whatever you choose for your puppers, though! Hope it works out.

[Guest leash]

My grandmother has done it for years with all her dogs. Best of luck! I am hoping you are vegan as well or that is just silly. I use cheese as treats so there is no way I could do it with Magnum.

[Xan]

I expect to get at least a few of those "door slamming closed" kinds of responses. It is a mind-bender, especially for most Americans, with their protein obsession, particularly.

 

And I see I forgot to respond to the "it's not natural" response. In a nut-shell, neither is kibble or canned food. Now, you raw-feeders have some cred (even though I could never do it myself), but dogs are not wolves or coyotes or foxes, though they are very close. Like we are to gorillas and chimps. They've evolved along with us to eat whatever's handy, whatever we throw their way or drop where they can get it. They continue to evolve with us, as we evolve. That's natural.

 

I don't spend that much time figuring out what to feed myself! What you suggest is just nuts.

Well, hm. I suppose it's not the first time someone has said that about my ideas! But, I hear you about all the figuring! Like I said, I'm still in learning curve land, but I expect once that's assimilated, it will be as simple as being a vegan is for me now.

 

My grandmother has done it for years with all her dogs. Best of luck! I am hoping you are vegan as well or that is just silly. I use cheese as treats so there is no way I could do it with Magnum.

Good on yer grandma! Hey, have you tried Magnum on bits of apple or carrot? Mine will do somersaults for them (well, okay, not somersaults, but everything in their repertoire!)

[Hubcitypam]

I'd never do it but wish you well if it is that important to you.

 

There must be taurine suppliments for the kitties, right? Vegan kitties is a thought that really scares me but maybe if you have unlimited time, money and resources to concoct the perfect mix it could work out just fine.

 

 

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I totally respect you!

 

When I was Vegan, I did consider it. There is even a not-that-expensive Vegan kibble (or if not Vegan, very close) by Nature's Recipe. I know some dogs who HAVE to eat it because of meat allergies, and they are fine. That stuff smells delicious, too!

 

It's not the choice for me at this point, but I do not think it's impossible for dogs to be healthy eating Vegan food. I like feeding my dogs meat and bones but I can totally TOTALLY get why you would try this.

 

As long as you put your dogs' health first and switch any of them back who do not thrive, then I see no problem with it. It's a personal decision.

 

And this from someone who would like to feed nothing but prey-model raw

 

PS I picked CHEESE as one of my answers because...

[Xan]

Pam, yes, you can get taurine to add to the food (synthetic, I think, but not animal anyway). The VegePet supplements for cats have all the covered, too, including the calcium/phosphorous balance issue, which had me a bit worried. The only thing else I'd want to supplement is l-carnitine for the dogs. I found it in bulk for not TOO much, and it only takes such a weee amount, so not so bad. It's a little controversial, but seems indicated for large, deep-chested dogs, which means greyhounds, so in it goes.

 

Thanks, FDOM. Yes, I'll be watching like a hawk for any signs of dis-ease or distress or even simple displeasure! I'll adjust as necessary on an individual basis (as I have all along anyway), and we'll see how it goes!

[Batmom]

As people are tired of hearing from me , I'm all about what works for the individual dog so different ingredients don't bother me. And I'm with you on the amino acids. There is quality (biologic availability) to consider, but it sounds like you are doing your research on all that stuff. Good luck!

[Valencia]

I absolutely respect your reasons for doing it, and kudos to you for sticking with your ethics. We all know how I feel about vegans and meat rabbits.

[macoduck]

Xan, if eating raw veggies and even some cooked ones gives me extra gas, how would that relate to increased chances of bloat in a deep-chested dog?

 

Also it seems like I recall Dr Cuoto (or perhaps someone else) making a statement that while veggies added to regular meal are fine as a filler, dogs do not absorb the nutritional benefit from them unless the veggies are crushed.

 

Are your veggies cooked or raw or both?

 

Just curious but won't try it here. I barely eat enough veggies myself.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

I think the bottom line is that it is incredibly obvious, at least to me, that you're approaching this from a viewpoint of love for animals, including YOUR dogs and other animals also. You're also educated and educating yourself on the topic, and you're not so set on it that you would let your dogs' health decline. At the end of the day, I would say most dogs should be so lucky.

 

And no, I don't spend near that much time thinking about what *I* eat either

[Xan]

Xan, if eating raw veggies and even some cooked ones gives me extra gas, how would that relate to increased chances of bloat in a deep-chested dog?

 

Also it seems like I recall Dr Cuoto (or perhaps someone else) making a statement that while veggies added to regular meal are fine as a filler, dogs do not absorb the nutritional benefit from them unless the veggies are crushed.

 

Are your veggies cooked or raw or both?

 

Just curious but won't try it here. I barely eat enough veggies myself.

Good points, every one!

I've been a vegan for most of my life, but eating *too much* raw veggies will put me in some serious distress, so I've been watching carefully. I think the enzymes I'm adding must make a big difference, helping to digest the vegetable matter more fully. I have been pureeing the veg (mostly cooked, so far, but some raw) and the protein too (beans, lentils, peas, quinoa), because it seems sensible, given the short digestive tract of dogs, and, of course, those TEETH! They're not much good at pulverizing leafy greens, for instance. As for bloat, I helplessly watched a dog die of bloat (though I didn't know what it was at the time, isolated in a very rural area), and anything I can do to avoid it, oh, you bet I will!

 

I think the bottom line is that it is incredibly obvious, at least to me, that you're approaching this from a viewpoint of love for animals, including YOUR dogs and other animals also. You're also educated and educating yourself on the topic, and you're not so set on it that you would let your dogs' health decline. At the end of the day, I would say most dogs should be so lucky.

 

And no, I don't spend near that much time thinking about what *I* eat either

Thanks!

I don't spend nearly that kind of time thinking about MY food, either! Anymore, that is. I did spend some time figuring out the nutrition at first, though. What I'm learning is that, like for humans, as long as you get pretty close most of the time, and cover the essentials over the short term, it really isn't like a chemistry test!

 

Which is sort of a good point to think about. Why are we SO worried about each milligram of this or that nutrient in each bite of food our dogs eat, when most of us will happily eat food we KNOW is stupid, and somehow manage to stay alive, blowing off attempts to draw our attention to our bad eating habits?

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

LOL because we care more about the dogs... when was the last time I even saw a doctor? I bet it was some 18 years ago when I was 12 and got an MMR shot.

[tamara3462]

Ok, so I am curious. I have heard this done successfully for dogs, but I thought cats were obligate carnivores and couldn't be switched to a meat free diet?

 

I admit I don't know a ton about this topic. I did the research once because I had a cat that died of a taurine deficiency (due to a metabolic issue not a diet issue) and it's scary because I didn't know he was sick until it was too late

 

Oh, and for the poll - no interest in vegan dieting for me or any of the animals here. Not judging, just my choice.

[NeylasMom]

And I see I forgot to respond to the "it's not natural" response. In a nut-shell, neither is kibble or canned food. Now, you raw-feeders have some cred (even though I could never do it myself), but dogs are not wolves or coyotes or foxes, though they are very close. Like we are to gorillas and chimps. They've evolved along with us to eat whatever's handy, whatever we throw their way or drop where they can get it. They continue to evolve with us, as we evolve. That's natural.

 

Gah! I was just going to stay out of this one until you brought this up.

 

1. The fact that other people choose other non-natural diets isn't an argument for feeding a vegan diet.

 

2. Dogs are physiologically the same as their wild relatives. They haven't been eating processed foods long enough to have evolved significantly in that regard. The fact that in order for your vegan diet to be available to them you have to cook it (not natural) or process it to a pulp (not natural) or use supplements (not natural) is good evidence of that.

 

Having cleared those things up I don't care what you do and I won't be critical of you. I suppose I have an ethical issue with people feeding what I consider a grossly inappropriate diet to animals they've chosen to have as pets knowing their dietary needs, but I realize not everyone is going to agree with me (why they don't I'm still trying to figure out ). Not to mention that you've put more thought into your dogs' diet than hordes of pet owners ever will and you're doing this totally insane thing in the most sane, well thought out way possible.

Edited July 30, 2010 by NeylasMom

[Guest eaglflyt]

Here's a good article from *Whole Dog Journal* about this very subject.

 

Here's another one, this one more specifically addressing a vegeterian dog food currently being sold by the HSUS.

 

I'm sure Xan has probably already read these. I just thought I'd share the links for discussion and informational purposes.

[Guest sophiesmum]

wow, I was hoping that this would come up at some point.

 

Im a vegan, but only started a few months ago, so Ive been feeling very hesitant about feeding my animals this diet, but also very unhappy with the selection of dog food on the market.

 

There is a food available in Australia (where I am) called Vegan pet which claims to be a complete balanced food which comes in cat and dog varieties. I bought a small bag for Sophie and she really liked it. I dont think it was outrageously expensive when calculated agains a food like Artemis which I planned to start feeding Sophie when her current bag of food is finished.

 

As an ethical vegan I hate thinking about the ground up offal that I currently feed my pets. However I have been worried about the long term effects of removing all meat from Sophies diet (and the cats!). I guess Im afraid that I wont really see the long term results until it may be too late- if that makes sense.

 

I would definately been interested in your spreadsheet and chatting to you about how its going. I would desperately love for my pets to also have a cruelty free diet that is safe for them. Im not sure if you can PM me due to my lack of posts but will happily give you my email address its not too much trouble for you.

 

Thanks for posting about this!

[Guest KennelMom]

I think it's ridiculous and pure human ego to thrust your own personal world views on animals that nature has made predators (if you are unwilling to accept that dogs are hunters and meat eaters, there's really no point in further discussion. You can't discuss this topic with someone who is unwilling to suspend reality and insert their own fantasy world). Dogs eat meat. Dogs in Mexico and India aren't pets like US dogs are pets. Most are free-roaming street dogs and pretty much expected to fend for themselves. I promise you, they DO hunt. The ones who don't, probably die.

 

I think using a supplement takes it out of the realm of cruelty. But otherwise, I think it is cruel to essentially make a dog your prisoner (take away their ability to supplement their diet with species appropriate foods - MEAT) and feed them a vegan diet. JMO.

 

Veganism doesn't seem to me to be "lifestyle choice"... apparently it's really no different than any other fundamentalist religion that believes its adherents are 1) superior to everyone else and 2) they should force their world views on other people and animals because of believed superiority.

 

And now that I've indulged *my* ego to respond. Enjoy your day and good luck to your dogs. You've inspired me to give our crew some big meaty raw bones to gnaw on today.

[JAJ2010]

I'm in the. Dogs are meat eaters camp and you migh be sllightly crazy. Although I feed raw prey model so others think I'm slightly crazy! Lol I would just worry about them getting the correct nutrients and mmake sure your getting your info from non HSUS sources. I am very leary of any info they publish... just closely monitor your pups to make sure they stay heathy

[Guest kydie]

I respect your choice,, I am vegan, for 30 years,, long before it was popular,,, my dogs,,nope, nope, nope, I know how difficult it is for a human to get what id needed nutritionaly,,,took me years to figure it out,as there was little printed on it when I started,,, my dogs, eat fruit and veggies,, but meat is the core of their diet,, good luck

[gazehund]

I voted. I feed raw. Nuff said.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I totally respect humans who choose to eat a Vegan diet, but dogs? No ... by nature, they are meat eaters.

 

 

Gah! I was just going to stay out of this one until you brought this up.

 

1. The fact that other people choose other non-natural diets isn't an argument for feeding a vegan diet.

 

2. Dogs are physiologically the same as their wild relatives. They haven't been eating processed foods long enough to have evolved significantly in that regard. The fact that in order for your vegan diet to be available to them you have to cook it (not natural) or process it to a pulp (not natural) or use supplements (not natural) is good evidence of that.

 

 

I think it's ridiculous and pure human ego to thrust your own personal world views on animals that nature has made predators (if you are unwilling to accept that dogs are hunters and meat eaters, there's really no point in further discussion. You can't discuss this topic with someone who is unwilling to suspend reality and insert their own fantasy world). Dogs eat meat. Dogs in Mexico and India aren't pets like US dogs are pets. Most are free-roaming street dogs and pretty much expected to fend for themselves. I promise you, they DO hunt. The ones who don't, probably die.

 

 

I think it quite odd to essentially have as a goal that one will avoid harming ruminants and herbivores who are naturally designed to be the prey of meat eating predators by feeding a diet that does violence to a companion animal dog. Amino acids are all the same chemically, but bioavailability differs, making amino acids sourced from different things essentially the same but not equal. The argument that kibble and canned foods are unnatural is hardly a good argument for feeding an even more unnatural diet to a carnivore.

 

And yes, as everyone here well knows, I feed prey model raw. When I started researching it, I hadn't touched a piece of meat, raw or otherwise, for over a decade. I have vegetarian and vegan friends that feed raw as well and had a very hard time in the beginning. I was creeped out when I first started feeding raw, but it was apparent that it was the most appropriate diet I could feed and that they thrived on it. None of mine were in less then very good condition when I started raw, so I really was caught off guard to see such improvement where I didn't think there could be much improvement in condition and coat. My hounds are my responsibility, and if I couldn't bring myself to put their biological needs and best interest above my own personal choices, I would leave the having of companion dogs to someone else, and just have herbivores.

 

That said, I don't think a vegan diet will kill a dog. I do think it causes complications and issues down the road, especially in an older dog. Really, they can survive on almost anything. Survival just isn't what I would aim for as a goal.