Question About Religion And Animals

[Forevermybabies]

I'm not a religious person. Spiritual, but not religious. I haven't raised my kids in a religion or church. (For better or worse.)

 

My younger son, however, now attends a private Catholic school (for academic reasons.) And one of the classes is to learn about Catholicism, obviously. Well, anyway, he's upset and confused because of the belief that animals do not have souls, and don't go to heaven. I told him that personally, I can't believe that God would make a creature who is perfect love, and not endow them with what we think of as a "soul." And if there are no dogs in heaven, I don't want to go.

 

So he thought, well, maybe animals go to a separate heaven and we can visit. I don't like that, either.

 

I have no idea what REALLY happens (who does), but I don't like this idea that people have an afterlife and animals just die.

 

Can someone explain to me the biblical basis for this Catholic belief that animals have no souls and don't go to heaven? (Assuming there's a heaven.) Where does it say this in the bible?

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

I was raised Caholic and one of my brothers was in the seminary. It was always an ongoing battle beatween him and I about this subject. I think it comes down to each of our indivisual beliefs, but as far as the Catholic church goes, the Pope stated that animals DO have a soul. So whoever is instructing your son, they need to get with the program!!

[HopeForHounds]

I'm with you Tami, how could such a perfect creature that gives unconditional love and forgives us for our failings not get to heaven?

 

At my Mom's memorial service the minister was talking about my Mom and her love of animals especially her dogs and granddogs. She said that heaven must have been a pretty exciting place with the reunion that happened when my Mom arrived. So our minister believes that animals have souls and do go to heaven.

[rycezmom]

If Heaven exists then I think it exists for all things living. That question leads to the inevitable debate. Its a personal thing and I have never questioned someones personal faith. It is what it is to each of us.. That being said, here is a good posting from October that I found amusing

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showto...8&hl=heaven

 

 

 

 

[Guest hvacman250]

I cant help with Catholic, but as a Christian standpoint: I dont people animals go to heaven. When God breathed the breath of life into mankind, it gave us a spirit (of God), which set us apart from other beings. Dogs may have a soul, but no spirit. Therefore, I dont believe they will be in heaven. While I love my dogs on earth as much as I love my children, my purpose in heaven is to commune with my God, not my dogs.

 

ETA, I bet this gets out of hand so quick and gets deleted. I stated my opinion. yours may vary.

Edited January 10, 2009 by hvacman250

[SAVED2]

Animals dont have Souls , but in the KING JAMES BIBLE it says Heaven is a place where the Lion lies with the Lamb so yes there are animals in HEAVEN.

[Guest KyGrey]

Animals dont have Souls , but in the KING JAMES BIBLE it says Heaven is a place where the Lion lies with the Lamb so yes there are animals in HEAVEN.

 

I had heard something like this before but I didn't know where it was taken from.

[Guest SusanP]

Just because he's in a Catholic school doesn't mean he has to take everything they teach at face value, especially if he isn't Catholic. Sorry I can't help with the Bible--but then, am I correct that not all Catholic beliefs are Bible-based? I'm the wrong person to answer questions about theology; I don't believe any of it.

Edited January 10, 2009 by SusanP

[ivon]

The good news is, it's a belief, therefore you get to make up any way you want it, I for one believe there will be dogs in heaven, but no roaches, or ants.....or me, most likely. If anyone knew for sure it would be called proof.

[calif_chaz]

Someone told me once that if there is something that was good and wonderful in your life and important to you , then it would be in heaven with you. I for one am counting on a great reunion with my goldie who we lost 5 years ago and eventually these hounds when they too leave us. To see them all run again full of youth and strength will be the most beautiful thing.

[rschultz]

the jewish religion and the catholic religion believe that animals have no souls but yes, there is a place in the kingdom of heaven for them. I would just explain to your son that g-d did breathe life into people but not animals but there still is a place for them in heaven that can be visited by people.

[Guest DebR]

The book of Revelations in the Bible states something about returning on white horses. If there are white horses in heaven, I'd bet there are dogs, as well as other animals.

 

 

[patricia]

I just know this...our babes...great and small...are all God's creation. My babes are blessed by our Priest each year...and my babes are going to heaven.

[Guest ArtysPeople]

From the horse's mouth, i.e., EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network, Global Catholic Network)

 

One principle is that all living things have a soul. Here soul is defined as what makes an organic body live. Now when any living thing dies, its soul is separated from its body. In the case of plants and animals the soul goes out of existence. But in the case of man, the soul remains in existence because it is a spiritual or immaterial thing. Consequently, it differs from the souls of animals in two important respects. First, it is the seat of intelligence or reason. For this reason a man is held responsible for his actions in a way that animals are not. Secondly, the soul is immortal.

 

Full Expert Answer is here: http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/pets_in_heaven.htm

 

[Guest VelvetEars]

I am Lutheran, albeit excommunicated. I have become far more spiritual over the years, and less dogmatic. (no pun intended)

 

The Bible says that God even takes care of the sparrows. And if he's taking care of the sparrows, surely they would be with him too.

 

I do believe we will see our loved ones again one day - people and pets alike - on the Other Side.

 

So Tami - ask him to pray about it. Because ultimately the answer does not come from any man or man-made institution. Only God knows.

[crazygang]

I KNOW in my HEART truly beyond ANY shadow of doubt that when I cross over from this life to the next that my loved ones INCLUDING my four-legged best friends will be there to meet me and we'll all be together again..........I feel strongly about this.

 

And NO-ONE whatever their RELIGION or BELIEFS can tell ME OTHERWISE......

 

Others are entitled to their beliefs and I mine but I will NOT hear it or be preached to.

 

 

 

 

 

edited spelling mistake

Edited January 10, 2009 by crazygang

[Forevermybabies]

Thanks everyone for their input. It's very interesting having a child who is getting a religious education. It brings something new to our philosophical discussions. I think that one reason that I'm not religious is that it's too confusing for me. I honestly just don't know. And don't think that I'm capable of understanding such a HUGE concept as God.

 

I'm okay with not knowing I guess. And I think I'll just have to tell Gabe that everyone seems to have their own interpretation and beliefs, and he needs to decide what feels true to him. Because no one can say for certain.

 

Claudia, can you tell me where to learn what the Pope's stance on this is? Because I'd like to be able to share that with the school.

 

Edited January 11, 2009 by Forevermybabies

[Guest GreytMuse]

Pope John Paul II: 'animals possess a soul'

 

When Pope John Paul II declared in a public audience in 1990 that 'also the animals possess a soul and men must love and feel solidarity with our smaller brethren' some people must have thought this was a new teaching, unaware of the Holy Father's scholarly familiarity with the authentic Hebrew texts. When he went on to state that all animals are 'fruit of the creative action of the Holy Spirit and merit respect' and that they are 'as near to God as men are', animal lovers in the audience were ecstatic! The Pope mentions the special relationship of mankind with God as being created in His image and likeness. 'However,' he goes on 'other texts state that animals have the breath of life and were given it by God. In this respect, man, created by the hand of God, is identical with all other living creatures. And so in Psalm 104 there is no distinction between man and beasts when it reads, addressing God: " … Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth." The existence therefore,' the Holy Father reminds us, 'of all living creatures depends on the living spirit/breath of God that not only creates but also sustains and renews the face of the earth.'

 

This discourse caused a stir around the world, and was especially encouraging to Catholic animal welfare groups which had begun to despair that anything 'animal friendly' would ever be heard in Rome. The then professor of theology and dogma at the University of Urbino, Carlo Molari, called it 'very important and significant. It is a "sign of the times" because it demonstrates the Church's desire and deep concern to clarify present confused thinking and attitudes towards the animal kingdom. There should be no need, but the Pontiff, in reiterating that animals came into being because of the direct action of the "breath" of God, wanted to say that also these creatures, as well as man, are possessed of the divine spark of life and that living quality that is the soul. And are therefore not inferior beings or only of a purely material reality.'

 

An excerpt from: http://www.all-creatures.org/ca/ark-186soul.html

 

To answer an earlier question, yes, all Catholic teachings do come from the Bible.

[Guest caiteag]

As I am not Christian, let alone Catholic, I don't believe in Heaven at all. I do not believe that souls simply dissipate after death, but continue on in different forms. I do believe that animals have souls and that their souls are on the same journey that every soul is on. I believe in re-incarnation and I think we have all lived lifetimes as animals and most of us will probably do so again. Each lifetime we live is to teach us new lessons, so we choose what form to come back as to best learn those lessons.

[fsugrad]

I just know this...our babes...great and small...are all God's creation. My babes are blessed by our Priest each year...and my babes are going to heaven.

That is exactly how I feel, and I am Catholic too. Although I am what I consider to be a fairly liberal Catholic. How could a creature who loves us perfectly and never sins be denied entrance to heaven?

 

Our parish priests hold a Blessing of the Pets every year at our church and it is hugely popular with dogs, cats, assorted rodents, turtles, snakes, and even horses attending to be blessed.

[MP_the4pack]

I too am Catholic. Actually non-practicing.

 

Too many things the Church preaches which I don't agree with. Just somebody with power somewhere down the line made that decision.

 

God made man. Man made religion.

[Forevermybabies]

Thanks Courtney. That's kind of what I was looking for. My personal stance has pretty much no impact (and I'm sure no interest for) the school. But I wanted to know what the Vatican's stance on this is. So that's good info. I appreciate it. That link was very interesting, too.

 

I also appreciate everyone sharing their beliefs. I look forward to sharing this with my kids and helping them to understand that there is no one "right" answer.

 

 

[ivon]

Regardless of anyone's personal belief's, I don't think kids should be told their pets won't go to heaven, that is just wrong. They should be allowed at least that comfort....there is nothing wrong with believing and holding on to that hope, or whatever else it is they feel may make them feel a little better.

[Forevermybabies]

I passed along that information from Courtney to the Theology teacher at the school.

 

 

[ShantisMom]

I guess there is arguments for all sides. All I can say that when I get there, if my animals that went before me aren't there I will be strongly disappointed!