Beau- Still Not Good, Getting Worse, I Fear

[RobinM]

I am so sorry that you are going thru this ....

 

I vaguely remember that Beau was getting chicken jerky in the evening a few weeks ago --- am I mistaken about that??? If that is the case, the FDA has an alert on the chicken jerky (http://www.fda.gov/consumer/updates/jerky122408.html).

 

The symptoms include possible bloody diarrhea and decreased appetite along with others .... this sounds like what beau has

 

I hesitate to mention that if the gut has been "stressed" giving harsh medicines like worming treatments may make the situation worse if this is truly being caused by toxins (or whatever it was) in the "chicken jerky".

 

The FDA in AU said there were symtoms that could be tied to the chicken strips, but unfortunately, there is no proof.

 

If it were true, that Beau was having a reaction to the chicken strips, wouldn't my other dogs have a similar reaction to the tainted batches?They are all eating from the same batch.

 

Also,right after Polli's last chemo treatment, she ate ONLY chicken strips for 4 days. It's not what we wanted, but she was eating and that is what she wanted to eat.

 

Just a thought...

 

Also, my vet agrees no worming treatment right now because it would make it worse.

[RobinM]

I feel like a am losing my grip. I can not remember the last time I've felt this overwhelmed. This situation with Beau really put me there. So many good suggestions and I can't do them all.

 

How does this sound for a plan of action?

 

rather than trying this food or that food or this concoction that he may or may not eat...

 

Here's the deal.

 

Boiled and rinsed lean beef with white rice. (as much as he will eat)

 

Treats: Zukes all natural power bars (beef)

 

Meds:

 

 

Prilosec- 1 a day

Flagyl- 2/ 250mg a day

Carafate- 1 every 8 hours

Tylan powder (I put it in pill form) at every meal

 

there are a lot of greyt suggestions, but I can not do it all. I need to try one thing for a week and see how he does. What IF there is a bad reaction to chicken all of a sudden and that's all he's been eating including the prescription food I just bought!!! With beef, he never got it, so it's starting fresh.

 

Thoughts or any slight modifications to this??

 

[MaryJane]

As to why Beau may have symptoms and the others not, maybe his "gut" was having some trouble anyway and this just escalated the issue beyond the line (sorta of like if someone has an ulcer and someone else doesn't, the one with the ulcer would get more affected by a toxin).

 

Your plan for feeding sounds good (especially sticking with the beef) but, I might point out that there are 4 meds listed - were they all prescribed by the vet? Is there a chance that some might be interacting in a bad way with each other?

 

 

[RobinM]

As to why Beau may have symptoms and the others not, maybe his "gut" was having some trouble anyway and this just escalated the issue beyond the line (sorta of like if someone has an ulcer and someone else doesn't, the one with the ulcer would get more affected by a toxin).

 

Your plan for feeding sounds good (especially sticking with the beef) but, I might point out that there are 4 meds listed - were they all prescribed by the vet? Is there a chance that some might be interacting in a bad way with each other?

 

ALL the meds are prescribed and given by vet! I don't self medicate my pups! I do that for me, not them!!!

 

[Guest SoulsMom]

The E-vet also suggested fiber when Soul was admitted to ICU, but I didn't want too much in Soul's system too fast. Who knows what combination of things could have been causing him problems? So I stuck with only the prescription diet (canned) and his flagyl. In fact, my vet INSISTED that he not be given ANYTHING but the prescription food. Once his tummy settled from having ONLY these two things his appetite came back and the issues were solved. It took a little while to get his weight back on him, but eventually it came back. Maybe three weeks.

 

It really, really might be helpful to try just ONE food. I know you've been trying many different things to get him to eat, and this could only be making the tummy upset worse, thus continuing the cycle of not eating

Edited December 30, 2008 by SoulsMom

[GreyPoopon]

Zukes Power Bones have quite a few ingredients. If you're concerned about possible food issues, stick to the beef and rice. For a treat, give him more beef--it tastes different from your hand. Honest.

 

Also, just a note: while he may never have received beef from you, he may have had it in the past, so may not be novel.

 

ETA: I haven't read all the posts, and I'm not sure what all has happened. However, here at GI Troubles R Us, we've had a lot of bloody poop, and your plan is quite similar to what my vet always suggests: one type of food, tylocine, sometimes flagyl, and sometimes misoprostal (an alternative to carafate).

Edited December 30, 2008 by GreyPoopon

[RobinM]

The E-vet also suggested fiber, but I didn't want too much in Soul's system too fast. Who knows what combination of things could have been causing him problems? So I stuck with only the prescription diet (canned) and his flagyl. In fact, my vet INSISTED that he not be given ANYTHING but the prescription food. Once his tummy settled from having ONLY these two things his appetite came back and the issues were solved. It took a little while to get his weight back on him, but eventually it came back. Maybe three weeks.

 

It really, really might be helpful to try just ONE food. I know you've been trying many different things to get him to eat, and this could only be making the tummy upset worse, thus continuing the cycle of not eating

 

I understand that completely however, Beau will only eat about 1/4 cup the prescription food at a time, not every time. That is how we wind up giving him this or that.

 

So, by staying with one thing, beef and rice, there is a better chance of him eating it more consistantly.

 

 

 

Also, just a note: while he may never have received beef from you, he may have had it in the past, so may not be novel.

 

if it were Chloe or Teddy, I would absolutely agree with you but with Beau- there is no way he would take it. Beau is different and we will just leave it at that!

[MerlinsMum]

Robin, I still have Merlin on beef and rice. I have now been adding Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Systems, and we're up to 3/4 cup per meal, but I have not stopped the beef and rice. The first day I put less rice in his poop got soft again (he is now off the meds, so I am not wanting to risk a relapse).

 

Trying just the prescription I/D food didn't seem to work since Beau hates it... so trying lean beef and rice may work. Just keep at it for a few days though, it took Merlin a while for his stomach to calm down. If Beau eats it, great. The vet told me to put more rice than beef in there. I was doing half and half at first and I wasn't seeing much of an improvement. Then I started giving him 1.1/4 cup of rice and a handful to 1/2 cup of beef and things got better. I know that seems like a lot of rice but it worked for me.

 

You're right, there is always a chance that Beau may be allergic to chicken and that this is irritating his stomach. My vet seemed to think that Merlin may have issues with chicken too (that's what I started giving him at first, chicken and rice, and he was getting worse, not better). But every dog is different. Try the beef and see how things go... he likes that, right? He'll eat it?

[Guest LindsaySF]

It really, really might be helpful to try just ONE food. I know you've been trying many different things to get him to eat, and this could only be making the tummy upset worse, thus continuing the cycle of not eating

Agreed. Pick something that he will eat and stick with it. Even the grilled chicken would be good for a few days or a week, just to get some food into him. The more you cater to him and try different things, the pickier he will be, and it might upset his tummy.

 

You said that his last 1 or 2 bowel movements did not have any blood, that is a really good sign.

 

 

Also, my vet agrees no worming treatment right now because it would make it worse.

I disagree with your vet for the simple fact that the symptoms Beau is displaying can be easily explained by a parasite infestation. I'm not saying to go against your vet's advice, I'm sure they know what they are talking about. BUT, please try the Panacur before doing something as invasive as a biopsy under general anesthesia.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest SoulsMom]

As long as it's just the beef and rice that should work. I wasn't suggesting doing a prescription diet, but using only one food source until his tummy settles. Even for treats. Soul's meals would be canned I/D, and treats would be the dry. This was done for an entire month, then I gradually started giving him his regular kibble.

[MaryJane]

The reason I asked about the meds is that the Prilosec and the Carafate sorta look like "antacid" type medications while the Flagyl and the Tylan are described as antibiotics (Flagyl for infections and Tylan for diarrhea type infections).

 

I googled "Flagyl" and one adverse symptom that might show up is bloody stool while the google on Tylan notes that the powder has a foul taste (might explain no appetite). When I worked in a bacteriology lab eons ago, it was not normal in the hospital I worked in to have two antibiotics prescribed at the same time ... maybe times have changed and they do this today but, you might want to nicely discuss this with the vet and see if you can have a culture done and isolate the bacteria (if there is one) and then get the antibiotic sensitivity for that bacteria.

 

Have others on the thread had both of these antibiotics prescribed at the same time?

 

 

 

 

[GreyPoopon]

Also, just a note: while he may never have received beef from you, he may have had it in the past, so may not be novel.

 

if it were Chloe or Teddy, I would absolutely agree with you but with Beau- there is no way he would take it. Beau is different and we will just leave it at that!

 

Er, I think we're talking at cross-purposes here.

 

What I meant was that if you want to try a novel protein--which is sometimes recommended when a dog has food issues--you'd need to try something more exotic than beef, which he may have eaten prior to joining your household.

 

But if he's willing to eat it, and he doesn't get sicker, then it's worth a try.

[RobinM]

You said that his last 1 or 2 bowel movements did not have any blood, that is a really good sign.

I'm not saying to go against your vet's advice, I'm sure they know what they are talking about. BUT, please try the Panacur before doing something as invasive as a biopsy under general anesthesia.

 

~Lindsay~

He had blood in his poop the one time that we know of. Vet thinks he popped a blood vessel by straining since he is so inflammed down there (by way of internal she felt the inflammation)

 

I just got off the phone with her again and she agrees that before there would be a bx, we would exhust EVERY possiblity. She is fine with the suggested menu I just came up with.

 

 

 

The reason I asked about the meds is that the Prilosec and the Carafate sorta look like "antacid" type medications while the Flagyl and the Tylan are described as antibiotics (Flagyl for infections and Tylan for diarrhea type infections).

 

I googled "Flagyl" and one adverse symptom that might show up is bloody stool while the google on Tylan notes that the powder has a foul taste (might explain no appetite). When I worked in a bacteriology lab eons ago, it was not normal in the hospital I worked in to have two antibiotics prescribed at the same time ... maybe times have changed and they do this today but, you might want to nicely discuss this with the vet and see if you can have a culture done and isolate the bacteria (if there is one) and then get the antibiotic sensitivity for that bacteria.

 

Have others on the thread had both of these antibiotics prescribed at the same time?

 

The prilesec is to settle his stomach, the carafate is to coat the stomach. The flagy is an antibiotic and so is the Tylan. I had mentioned that I bought capsules for the Tylan so that he does not taste the bitterness. IF he tasted it in his food, he wouldn't eat it. He is on a very , very low dose of flagyl.

 

 

 

.. he likes that, right? He'll eat it?

 

Well, Kerri- what he likes today at 6PM is not neccesarily what he will like at 10 AM tomorrow!!!!

 

That's just my Beau.

 

I never realized just how easy Chloe and Teddy are!!!!!

Edited December 30, 2008 by RobinM

[dbullwinkel]

boiled beef and pasta helps Garry when his belly acts up..he can't tolerate rice or chicken. I agree..sticking with limited foods such as one novel protein and one other ingredient such as rice, pasta or potato and the meds for a while to give his stomach time to settle down.

What royal canin prescription food did you try him on? In these situations it is really better to stick with one diet for a while since changing things can only make the stomach worse. Been there with Garry, my nervous guy...and it often shows itself with his intestines!

[gracegirl]

No additional advice to offer, just wanted to tell Beau that I hope he feel better really soon. I guess I want to tell his momma that too! (or I guess his mommas...both the two and four legged ones )

Edited December 30, 2008 by gracegirl

[MandysMom]

No advice, just sending good thoughts--I hope Beau's tummy settles down soon.

[Jackandgrey]

Robin first to you. Second take a really big breath in and out. You're so right. You cannot ping pong back and forth between all the advice on this thread. Beau is a sensitive boy. Whatever is wrong the stress probably first from Polli and now with him is no doubt aggravating everything. You need to be calm and not stress about his eating. You've outlined a plan. Relax now and go with it. I know he's lost weight. He may lose a little more BUT he will get well and start to put it on again. I really believe this.

[Chicocat]

I think you are right on target with your plan. Consistency in the food offered, if he will eat it, can only help an upset gut. I wouldn't even worry about getting weight on him at this point, just getting him eating consistantly. The weight can be put back on easily once he feels good again.

 

If you can prevent him from eating grass that will help too.

 

One other thing I think I remember you mentioning, maybe in another thread, was that he had a new feeder. You might think it silly, but you might see what happens if you go back to his old feeder. (If he will eat from a bowl at this point). I've seen these guys react to a change as simple as that, and once the cycle starts where they aren't eating and don't feel good it just escalates. It probably had nothing to do with it, but at this point anything that increases his comfort level is a positive.

 

 

 

 

[tamborine]

Robin first to you. Second take a really big breath in and out. You're so right. You cannot ping pong back and forth between all the advice on this thread. Beau is a sensitive boy. Whatever is wrong the stress probably first from Polli and now with him is no doubt aggravating everything. You need to be calm and not stress about his eating. You've outlined a plan. Relax now and go with it. I know he's lost weight. He may lose a little more BUT he will get well and start to put it on again. I really believe this.

 

I agree 100%! Even though I was one of the original advice-givers . But the bland diet you've come up with got the vet's ok, and he's got his meds to take, so just relax & go with the flow for a while.

 

[crazygang]

that Beau feels better soon....

[Guest Winterwish]

 

Sending prayers for Beau and his tummy to get better soon.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Winterwish

[RobinM]

He ate beef and rice last night AND this morning. This morning was the 1st time in weeks that he ate breakfast.

 

I have to keep positive about it. Beau HAS to be oK.

[iluvgreys]

So glad to hear that Beau is eating more! Continued prayers for steady progress...

[patricia]

Good news...keep up the good work sweetie.

[MandysMom]

I'm glad he ate 2 meals in a row. C'mon, Beau, keep eating!!