Beau- Still Not Good, Getting Worse, I Fear

[Guest taylorsmom]

Hey Robin! Terri from GAA. I just read all your posts about Beau. I thought all along it was colitis but wanted to hear it from the vet first. I've been through it with Chelsea several times. The "T" powder is Tylan and it is a wonderful thing! As soon as Chelsea starts with loose stools she gets a dose of that and...poof...all better! I've never had to put her on prescription food just a very bland diet until she's feeling better. Colitis is mainly brought on by stress, at least with Chelsea it is, so try to be aware of that. And not like you don't already know this but he picks up on you guys being upset too. I don't get on here very often but I'm sure wishing you well and if you want to chat drop me a note at greyhoundlover28@verizon.net

Terri

Chelsea, Carra, Lilly

And Tia at the bridge but 4ever in our hearts

 

I agree 100%!! I think it is informative that Beau had more of an "appetite" when he was sedated. If "anxiety" has anything to do with this, it would be explained by the interest in food when he was very very relaxed.

I am adding my prayers and hopes that Beau gets better really really soon!! By the way, a friend of mine had excellent results with a prescription Purina food for IBS in her dog, she absolutely swears by it. My Lab Lucy is on prescription Royal Canin for her allergies and it is helping a lot--I also like the ingredients in the Royal Canin a lot more than either Science or Purina. I think the important factor in IBS is the fiber, which is added to the food in the form of beet pulp usually.

[RobinM]

If they are not eating dog food, and only pieces of chicken ( as of last night) how the heck do I get powered medication in him???

[dante2zoe]

I had a grey on Tylan powder for quite a while for IBD. You can get it from your vet and also find it on-line much cheaper. Please note that it does work, but it is quite bitter. I also purchased gelatin capsules and made capsules for the dog. It looked like I was setting up shop, but you do what you have to do! I would make them in batches becuase he took a few twice a day with meals. I forget now the dose. He was able to take it that way. Some will accept it sprinkled on their food, but with a sensitive eater . . . I must admit, in our case it worked for several months and then he began sliding back. According to the vet, it was either time to try raw or undergo invasive testing. We went raw, have had great success and never looked back. He was just at the vet last week as moral support for our newbie and the vet couldn't believe how good and healthy he was! Far cry from when we first got him! I wish you much luck - been there, done that.

[RobinM]

Beau won't eat anything that remotely has any funky smell or taste to it, especially now. Where can I buy the capusles?

 

For a dog that should weigh 65 pounds, what would be the ideal raw diet. I don't know if Beau would eat raw to tell you the truth. My vet calls Beau an enigma of greyhounds.

 

Should I try raw? If so, I don't know how to start. I just picture him looking up at me with those eyes of his and thinking, yucky, it's not cooked... and turning away.

Edited December 29, 2008 by RobinM

[dante2zoe]

I got them on-line and the size depends on how much powder he is to receive. You can also see if your vet or acupunturist has some? I also tried my local CVS. They could get them for me, but I was able to find them cheaper myself. Before I got the capsules, I would try to bury the powder in whatever I could and get it in him. Not fun. Have you tried pill pockets? I hollowed out whatever I could, but Dante is a chewer, not gulper. BTW, he weighs around 64 pounds. For Beau, I might start with cooked and try to see if he would switch. Dante is food motivated, so it wasn't difficult. He loves his chicken. One thing, though, watch fat intake and skin. Skin upsets his gut and he gets loose. He gets 12 oz per meal and gets fed twice a day. Right now, I would try to get him stablized and then go from there. I do feel for you though. It is so hard to watch this unfold and feel so helpless.

[RobinM]

I've tried pill pockets but right now, he is not eating anything he used to. Nothing. Even cookies.

[dante2zoe]

At some point, you might also want to add a probiotic (you can get it vitamin shops) to help him get back to baseline. As for timing of everything, I am no expert. Your vet might be able to give better instructions. I just know what worked for me.

[Guest taylorsmom]

The way you calculate the amount to feed is 2-3% of ideal bodyweight. So for a dog that you want to weigh 65 lbs., you would feed 3% of 65, or a little less than 2 pounds per day.

I think it is a good idea to try raw, but not until his tummy is more settled and healed (I am sure that you were thinking that way already!). I would also be trying to get him on some sort of daily probiotic for several weeks before trying raw, so that any bacteria in the raw food would be balanced out by good bacteria in his gut.

I would think that the best way to start would be with some bone-in raw chicken breast. Give a whole breast, not chopped up, to encourage him to chew and not just swallow pieces whole. Chicken bones are pretty easily digested, and breast bones are softer and easier to deal with than a leg or even neck bone would be. It would also be the appropriate size for chewing for a 65 lb. dog (you wouldn't want to feed him something small like chicken wings or necks because they are too small and may cause a choking hazard). You would keep him on just one protein type for several weeks, so you wouldn't have to worry about adding anything beyond that for awhile. And I would feed 1 lb. of breast in the morning, one lb. for dinner to spread it out initially (most healthy dogs can easily tolerate 2 lbs. of meat at one meal, but I would not do that initially at all).

If you want to try this and have any questions, please feel free to PM me anytime!!

[dante2zoe]

I would be afraid (because that is the way that I am) to try to change too many things at once. If I did, I would not be able to figure out what did and what did not work. At this point, you are frantic (if you were me) and just want to get whatever you could into his mouth. If he likes (or will eat) grilled chicken, bring it on! I also would phyically put soft food into Dante's mouth (he lets me mess with it all the time) and hold his jaws together loosely. However, he would usually eat for me, but it would come out the other end in a huge messy pile and he wasn't able to get anything out of it. He was 7 pounds under his racing weight and the vet was concerned that he was going to deteriorate to the point of no return. He would swallow. He can't eat many cookies because grains make him worse. His treats are grain free and a small biscuit gets broken into pieces. With all my dogs, it is not the size of the treat, but the number. Much cheaper that way, too! I realize that I am kind of random here, but I am trying to give too much, too quickly, I think.

[RobinM]

You are right about changing to raw right now. Vet said not right now. Let's get things a bit better under control.

 

I am so all over the place.

[VinnieAndRexsMom]

Glad you have a possible diagnosis.

[Guest Carla]

Hope Beau starts to feel better soon.

 

[patricia]

Checking in with more prayers.

[Guest dsszarzi]

Robin, just saw this. What about Iam's Low Residue canned food? Alan has eaten that and he's real picky. When are the labs and all other tests back? Boy Beau, what are you doing toyour mommy? Hope all well get better fast!

 

Robin, my little girl (Beans) had a very loud gurgley stomach, wouldn't eat, and had real bad diarrhea. We went through 3 rounds of meds and nothing was working. My vet said she wanted to put Beans on the Iams Low Residue food for about 6-8 weeks. If that didn't work, an ultrasound would be the next step. I got the suggested food (can and kibble). I mix in about 4 big scoops of the wet, add 1 tablespoon of pumpkin for fiber (only once a day for the pumpkin), and mix all in the kibble. I can't believe it, but she loves it! And...within 2 days her poops were normal. I am still keeping my fingers crossed. The food is so gentle on the tummy, you don't have to go through the slow process of transitioning foods.

 

I also want to add that I think stress started it all. Her best friend (Buddy) was very sick and we were so worried. I think Beans felt the stress from Buddy and from us.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Spoke to Vet. She said NO to the panacur as that will make the Colitis worse. They are certain it's a colitis, possible IBS/maybe crohns.

 

So, the plan of action is to try the flagyl again 250 bid and see if he tolerates it this time with the prilesec and carafate plus adding in a powder that starts with "T".

 

IF GOD forbid this doesn't work, he would need to have a biopsy done of the intestine which of course would require general AGAIN and at least 24 hour hospital stay

The vet won't do a round of Panacur, but they are willing to do Flagyl and Tylan powder? And a biopsy if that doesn't work? That seems a little much to me. If it were my dog I would do Panacur before putting him under anesthesia.

 

Colitis just means inflammation of the colon. The cause can be a million things ranging from stress, food intolerance, IBS, to parasites (especially giardia and whipworms). Flagyl works on giardia and some bacteria, but it won't get whipworms or hookworms. Tylan is another antibiotic, it gets Clostridium which also causes colitis. Like flagyl it is an anti-inflammatory, which will help, but it won't touch whipworms or other worms.

 

Here is a really helpful link about colitis: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_colitis.html

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

[RobinM]

When Dh got home Beau ate a couple of cookies, 1/2 cup Royal Canin 1/4 cup of wet canin and some chicken. So far so good.

[nyGreys]

Sending prayers for Beau. Glad he's eating a little. I hope he starts feeling better soon.

Edited December 29, 2008 by nyGreys

[Batmom]

The vet won't do a round of Panacur, but they are willing to do Flagyl and Tylan powder? And a biopsy if that doesn't work? That seems a little much to me. If it were my dog I would do Panacur before putting him under anesthesia.

 

Colitis just means inflammation of the colon. The cause can be a million things ranging from stress, food intolerance, IBS, to parasites (especially giardia and whipworms). Flagyl works on giardia and some bacteria, but it won't get whipworms or hookworms. Tylan is another antibiotic, it gets Clostridium which also causes colitis. Like flagyl it is an anti-inflammatory, which will help, but it won't touch whipworms or other worms.

 

Here is a really helpful link about colitis: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_colitis.html

 

Great link -- I hadn't seen that page before and it is really very thorough.

 

Good point, too.

 

Hope Beau turns the corner soon.

[RobinM]

The vet won't do a round of Panacur, but they are willing to do Flagyl and Tylan powder? And a biopsy if that doesn't work? That seems a little much to me. If it were my dog I would do Panacur before putting him under anesthesia.

 

Colitis just means inflammation of the colon. The cause can be a million things ranging from stress, food intolerance, IBS, to parasites (especially giardia and whipworms). Flagyl works on giardia and some bacteria, but it won't get whipworms or hookworms. Tylan is another antibiotic, it gets Clostridium which also causes colitis. Like flagyl it is an anti-inflammatory, which will help, but it won't touch whipworms or other worms.

 

Here is a really helpful link about colitis: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_colitis.html

 

Great link -- I hadn't seen that page before and it is really very thorough.

 

Good point, too.

 

Hope Beau turns the corner soon.

 

Thank you, Lindsey, Yes, greyt link, I am printing it out at work now and will read it in depth when I get home.

 

ETA that as it was printing - I could not help but notice on the first page it says that "even in chronic case, weight loss is usually not a feature of this condition".

 

WTH???

Edited December 29, 2008 by RobinM

[Guest ArtysPeople]

Just wanted to point out, if your vet didn't mention it, that one of the primary side effects of Flagyl is stomach upset, including nausea (I know this one from personal experience ). If you do Google searches on "Flagyl side effects" and "Flagyl veterinary side effects" you'll see that 12% of humans report nausea, while veterinary side effects are "not common". I suspect that it makes as many dogs nauseated as it does humans, just that the dogs aren't as good as humans at reporting their symptoms to the FDA. Anyhow, not that you don't have enough to be thinking about already, but wanted to throw out there that the medication could actually be causing some of his loss of appetite.

 

Hope you and your vet find the answer soon.

Edited December 29, 2008 by ArtysPeople

[RobinM]

He had been on flagyl, took him off a week ago, and now he's back on for the 1st time. He stopped eating without flaygy. He's on a much lower dose now.

 

I just walked in the door and read the bag of Royal Canin that we picked up. He would need to be eating 7 cups of this food to maintain the weight he is at now which is WAY below what he should be. At best, when things were perfect, there was no way Beau would eat more than 3 cups a day.

At best NOW, I can maybe get a cup in a day.

 

This is not going to work.

 

NOW WHAT??? I just am starting to tail spin mentally.

 

Edited December 29, 2008 by RobinM

[Batmom]

1. I have heard of people having dogs react badly to flagyl. But, I've given it to a lot of dogs and never had one react. It's one of the few meds I don't even bother to give with food.

 

2. Don't worry about calories right off. Get him eating regularly and digesting properly, and then worry about the calories. Altho I honestly would feed the canned rather than dry -- it's gentler on the system. No, no, don't run out and buy more food. You should have a good stock of "gentle innards" foods in house now. Pick one and feed it -- and only it -- for a few days. It's better that he eats a little light for a few days anyways.

 

Must be the low-fat version of RC's tummy food?

 

Joseph had nothing by mouth for 3-4 days when he had the toy problem, and very light meals for a few days after that. He lost weight. He gained it back.

[Guest dsszarzi]

He had been on flagyl, took him off a week ago, and now he's back on for the 1st time. He stopped eating without flaygy. He's on a much lower dose now.

 

I just walked in the door and read the bag of Royal Canin that we picked up. He would need to be eating 7 cups of this food to maintain the weight he is at now which is WAY below what he should be. At best, when things were perfect, there was no way Beau would eat more than 3 cups a day.

At best NOW, I can maybe get a cup in a day.

 

This is not going to work.

 

NOW WHAT??? I just am starting to tail spin mentally.

 

 

Ask your doctor about Iams Low Residue for Beau. My Beans is 68-70 lbs. and I only feed her 1-1/2 cup kibble (with 4 scoops of wet mixed in) and the same in the evening. It must taste good because she goes crazy for it! Must smell good too--my other 2 hounds always try to go for her food.

[Guest SusanP]

Mine like the Iams low residue, too, and it works wonders when they have digestive problems, even serious ones. It comes canned or kibble, and of course my guys prefer canned.

 

ETA you have to get it through a vet and not all vets carry it, but it would be worth calling around for.

Edited December 29, 2008 by SusanP

[MaryJane]

I am so sorry that you are going thru this ....

 

I vaguely remember that Beau was getting chicken jerky in the evening a few weeks ago --- am I mistaken about that??? If that is the case, the FDA has an alert on the chicken jerky (http://www.fda.gov/consumer/updates/jerky122408.html).

 

The symptoms include possible bloody diarrhea and decreased appetite along with others .... this sounds like what beau has

 

Everyone had some great suggestions for what to feed but my opinion would be to favor the simpler suggestions. One person mentioned rice krispies (or you could try cherrios) with some yogurt - that's easy and would be easy on the gut. Rice and hamburger is an old stand-by because it works in many cases. Someone also mentioned macaroni and cheese (you might go easy on the cheese because of the constipation factor, or you could change it to macaroni and butter).

 

I hesitate to mention that if the gut has been "stressed" giving harsh medicines like worming treatments may make the situation worse if this is truly being caused by toxins (or whatever it was) in the "chicken jerky".