Young Male Greyhound Peeing in House and on His Bed

[enoire]

I posted a wee while back about our grey (3 yo male, with us for 3 months) who had started to pee in the flat after eating (

). At that time we thought it was just behavioural, maybe our schedule wasn't good for him. So we adjusted so that in addition to all of our regular walks he also went out after meals. This is what our schedule looks like now: 

- 7am: 45 min walk

- 8:30am: breakfast, then out to the garden right after

- 12pm: 15 min walk

- 5pm: 45 min walk

- 6:30pm: dinner, then out to the garden right after

- 8pm: trip to the garden 

- 11pm: trip to the garden then bed

But he started to get worse, peeing inside at seemingly random times. They are always big pees, not little marks, and he just does them wherever he happens to be at the time. We thought it was a lapse in his house training, so we have gone back to treating him every time he pees outdoors. But he has just continued to get worse. He drinks between 3.5 and 4 litres of water a day. I've no idea if this is a lot or a little. 

We took him to the vets, who say they couldn't find anything wrong with him physically or in his urine, and we are awaiting blood test results. Yesterday he peed for the first time lying down in his bed. Not the first time he's peed on the bed, I've seen him pee on it when he stands up or goes to sit down, but the first time I'd seen him peeing lying down in a relaxed position. And he loves his bed too, that's where he takes his treats and toys, and where he settles down in the room. A part of me is convinced this is medical, but then the vet seems to think he is totally fine, and he is a 3 yo otherwise healthy male, so a medical issue seems unlikely. I am very conflicted. 

Has anyone else had similar issues with a young male grey? And if it is behavioural, any advice for training him not to go in the house? Currently we are just giving him praise for going outside, and we have started teaching him to ring a bell which hopefully he can eventually use to ask to go out. But preferably he'd be able to hold it so that we could have some kind of schedule. 

[DocsDoctor]

I would persist with looking for a medical issue. The indoors peeing sounds more like 'peeing because he has to go' than marking, and peeing while relaxed on his bed in particular is just not something a healthy young male dog would normally do. 

And that seems to me a lot of water to drink; when my previous greyhound Ken had peeing issues the vet asked me to keep a water diary, it's years ago now but I think he was just within the top-end of the normal range for a dog of 32 kilos at something like 2.2 litres a day.

I would suggest keeping a water diary (sounds as if you may already be doing that) and showing it to the vet, who can check the figures. Also getting a sample, first thing in the morning, for the vet to run a ?gravity test to see how dilute his urine is, if that's not already been done.

May just be an urine infection - these can be hard to spot, and stubborn to cure. That was what it turned out to be for Ken. It will be uncomfortable for him and shouldn't be neglected, because eventually it will impact on his kidneys. There are also more serious possibilities which a blood test will hopefully help rule out - kidney issues, diabetes insipidus.

Sometimes there can be a behavioural element - even with the infection sorted out Ken remained a bit obsessive about tanking down water when he got the chance, probably the vet and I reckoned because at some point as a puppy or subsequently he'd had restricted access to it, maybe even had to compete for it. But I do think something medical is going on right now in your case.

[greysmom]

A healthy dog (usually) won't soil his own denning area.  Get another opinion.  

It could be related to a prostate issue, a complication from neutering surgery, a bladder or kidney issue that doesn't show in urine sample testing, diabetes OR diabetes mellitus (water diabetes), reflex dyssynergia, cancer, a spinal nerve issue like a blown disc or lumbosacral stenosis, or a whole host or other problems.  It sounds like he doesn't "feel" when he needs to go.  That sounds like a nerve issue to me.

Schedule an ultrasound exam of his abdominal cavity to see if his organs are working properly and if any tumors are present.  Xrays of his back half - including spine and lower extremities - would also be useful.

In the meantime, a belly band with a human incontinence pad will help save your house.  Just check it often so he doesn't get chafed or a rash.

[Sniffy]

Your walking schedule appears to give him ample opportunity to empty his bladder several times per day.

And I will agree with the earlier post that the amount of water he is drinking appears to be significantly more than normal--I compare to my large male grey who has long pees on his walks, making me wonder where he gets all the liquid from,  but we only fill his water bowl about once per day. I can't imagine Stanley drinking up to four liters a day, he'd be making yellow rivers all day long.

Hopefully it is a treatable issue--best of luck! 

[enoire]

Thanks for your responses.

@DocsDoctor if you recall, how was the urine infection diagnosed in the end? 

We have been keeping a water diary, and yesterday he set a new record - 5 litres! Today the vet phoned and she confirmed that 5 litres is too much for him to be drinking. Thankfully the vet also ruled out any serious conditions like kidney disease, but she said the blood test results were somewhat ambiguous and wants another urine sample from him to double check. Knowing the vet is thinking that it's probably medical, but also not serious, is a big relief to me. Hopefully we can find out what it is and get him treated so he can go back to his busy schedule of sleeping most of the day. 

I'll keep this thread updated, maybe it can be informative to others in the future! 

[Sniffy]

Best of luck with the next round of tests! 

You and your vet have probably already thought of this, but I wonder if his food or treats cause him to drink more--as if the food / treats might be salty or if his chew toys dry out his mouth somehow? Just wondering.

Good luck.

[Jerilyn]

I hope you're able to figure this out. And that it's nothing serious.

Sniffy's comment reminded me that once Lila started suddenly drinking like crazy and having to pee all the time. I thought something was horribly wrong with her. Then I remembered I got some new treats. I checked the ingredients and there were 3 different salt-type ingredients. I threw them away and she was cured.  Have you changed anything you're feeding him?

[DocsDoctor]

6 hours ago, enoire said:

Thanks for your responses.

@DocsDoctor if you recall, how was the urine infection diagnosed in the end? 

We have been keeping a water diary, and yesterday he set a new record - 5 litres! Today the vet phoned and she confirmed that 5 litres is too much for him to be drinking. Thankfully the vet also ruled out any serious conditions like kidney disease, but she said the blood test results were somewhat ambiguous and wants another urine sample from him to double check. Knowing the vet is thinking that it's probably medical, but also not serious, is a big relief to me. Hopefully we can find out what it is and get him treated so he can go back to his busy schedule of sleeping most of the day. 

I'll keep this thread updated, maybe it can be informative to others in the future! 

I *think* it was via a second and more expensive test, which involved more prolonged culturing of the sample at a laboratory.

Also seem to remember that the infection didn't respond to the first lot of antibiotics, so we had to have a second course of something different.

The test I mentioned for the urine's specific gravity may also be worthwhile and is something the vet should be able to do easily and cheaply at the practice - you catch a sample from the first pee of the morning, take it in, and it shows how well the dog is currently processing liquid and concentrating its urine.

 

[enoire]

Thanks! We haven't had any culture done yet, but vet asked for a second urine sample and says it is very dilute. They have also requested a second blood test. Results on Monday hopefully. She suspects it may be diabetes insipidus.

[DocsDoctor]

Do please keep us updated when you know more - fingers crossed that will be soon and that it is will turn out to be something that is easy to treat and cure. 

[Sniffy]

I had to look up diabetes insipidus -- it sounded scary to me by name--until I quickly read up about it.  Apparently it can be treated successfully.  Regardless of the final diagnosis, best of luck to you!

Edited November 20, 2021 by Sniffy
clarity

[enoire]

Nugget is still drinking a lot of water, but he hasn't developed any new problems that we can see. We got some updates from the vet today. She said that his blood tests show low protein and low white blood cell count. She has recommended an ultrasound to check his prostate, kidneys, and bladder, which we are getting done next week. She seems quite surprised by the combination of excessive drinking/urinating with the blood test results and said that we might need to refer him to a specialist for another opinion if the ultrasound doesn't show anything. He seems to be a bit of a medical mystery! I am not sure what I am thinking at this point. I am still hopeful it's nothing to serious because he is also still an upbeat, happy dog who goes on his long walkies, plays with his toys, and roaches around.

[Notnat1]

Im thinking is its the bed now.. so dogs will continue to mark their territory that's why its important to clean all accidents with an enzyme cleaner to get rid of the scent. It is odd that it's where he is laying though. Have you considered getting a new bed as that would be very difficult to completely rid the scent. 

I think when a dog knows they aren't supposed to pee in the house they act a bit more distressed then just laying there peeing.. they know they shouldn't so they move around erratically, wine to go out or look a bit down nosed after they have done it. Try dragging him out when he starts to pee. He should stop peeing, shouldn't cause too much mess but after a few times they should get the idea that she shouldn't in the house. Just some ideas.

Your routine looks great, that's a lot of exercise for your Grey  I also live in a flat.

[enoire]

Thanks Notnat1!  Yes being in a flat is certainly a bit tough for us right now!

We actually did get him a new bed! More by coincidence though, haha, we got him one with a waterproof cover to make our lives easier. It doesn't seem that it is tied to the specific bed, since the initial post I wrote here he's also had accidents all over the place, and I genuinely think it's because he just gets to a point where he can't hold it any longer, and he's not very good at communicating that he needs out.

We have gotten a lot better at managing him though. We write down when he drinks a lot (> 300 ml) and then 45 minutes after that take him outside and he always does a BIG pee. Seems to be working pretty well. Today for example, no accidents in the house at all! But because he drinks so much he has to go out a lot. Yesterday he drank upwards of 6 litres!

Another thing we've started doing is teaching him to ring a bell. Hoping we can train him to ring it when he needs to go out so he's a bit more "vocal"! May not work but it has been fun for all of us 

[enoire]

Ultrasound results shows he has abnormal looking kidneys. Vet suspects kidney infection (pyelonephritis). They sent away urine for culture but will take 10 days to get results.  Incontinence has gotten worse and his behaviour is beginning to change too. He often refuses to go outside. This could be because he's sleep deprived, lethargic because of the (potential) infection, or just hates us making him go out into the freezing cold once an hour. He doesn't really get walked properly anymore because he just won't go. Even if we get him out the door, eventually he'll just sit on the ground in protest until we turn around and go home. We've tried treats and toys to entice him but nothing interests him. Obviously this also contributes to more accidents in the house. Feeling really exhausted (and no doubt so is Nugget) and cannot wait for the results, hoping its something they can treat with antibiotics. 

[Sniffy]

oh gosh, I'm so sorry you (and he) are going through this. Hopefully it is treatable!

[enoire]

Urine culture turned up nothing, but vet has decided to treat with antibiotics anyway to be sure. Fingers crossed!!!

[Sniffy]

[enoire]

Half way through antibiotic treatment. Nugget has gotten worse not better. He now drinks up to 6 litres a day and seems to be able to hold his pee for less time - he needs out every 30 mins rather than 45. Still bed wetting. Calling the vet tomorrow. Remaining options would be resistant kidney infection, cancer, or psychogenic polydipsia (although this is the best case scenario for him, it wouldn't explain his abnormal bloods or ultrasound so I'm not convinced by it). 

Very concerned about this getting any worse. Don't know how I would juggle it with work. 

[cleptogrey]

you forgot to list diabetes incipidus/water diabetes. it often will subside after treatment. greyhounds do get it- it's mentioned the the racing handbook(forgot the name). felix was tested/treated for UTI, still tanking up on water and explosive urination. my vet tried the old fashioned treatment of vasopressin tannet injections. like a light switch he stopped tanking up on water. the first shot lasted a full month. the second injection we tried 1/2 dose, it didn't work, gave him the full dose and he never needed another dose. go know?

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/diabetes-insipidus-in-dogs

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/endocrine-system/the-pituitary-gland/diabetes-insipidus-in-animals

[Remolacha]

This is kind of out of the box, but when I was thinking of things that make them drink lots of water, besides diabetes, has he been checked for Cushing’s disease or Addison’s disease? Symptoms in both are vague, but excessive drinking is one of the more common. 

[enoire]

@cleptogrey oh thats interesting! I didn't know diabetes insipidus could be treated by just a few injections. So that was top of our vets list of suspects before the ultrasound. When he was in for that, they observed his urine closely and saw that he was able to concentrate his urine. Which they said rules out diabetes insipidus because that stops them being able to concentrate their urine. Although I will bring it up with them again because double checking can't hurt!

@Remolacha he hasn't been tested for this and it seems like a possibility! I will ask the vet if we can test for it. It seems like a lot of the symptoms might be hard to spot in a greyhound. Like poor hair growth. He has poor hair growth but we thought that was because he was a greyhound and we knew they were prone to bald patches (e.g. he has the classic greyhound baldy butt!).

[tbhounds]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:41 PM, enoire said:

Half way through antibiotic treatment. Nugget has gotten worse not better. He now drinks up to 6 litres a day and seems to be able to hold his pee for less time - he needs out every 30 mins rather than 45. Still bed wetting. Calling the vet tomorrow. Remaining options would be resistant kidney infection, cancer, or psychogenic polydipsia (although this is the best case scenario for him, it wouldn't explain his abnormal bloods or ultrasound so I'm not convinced by it). 

Very concerned about this getting any worse. Don't know how I would juggle it with work. 

Check for water diabetes .  AKA diabetes insipidus.

edited to add..greyhounds typically have a lower blood protein as well as a lower WBC count.

Edited December 21, 2021 by tbhounds

[MaryJane]

You might want to change his dog food. Sometimes if the dog food has a high level of protein (>26%) can cause excessive drinking. Also, if he is allergic to the protein in the dog food (usually chicken), this could also cause excessive drinking - you might want to switch to a Limited Ingredient dog food.

[enoire]

So I had to go to my parents for a family emergency and I brought Nugget with me. He never drank more than 3 litres there. I kept him on the same feed and exercise schedule. He still needed out more often than before all of this started, and generally was more urgent, but it was much more manageable. He never wet his bed, not once. Told the vet this and gave a urine sample from immediately when we got back which was totally normal. 

Back home now for a couple of days and he's right back into the routine of downing any water he can get. He has wet his bed several times today already. 

Now it seems most likely that he has psychogenic polydipsia, and the blood tests, ultrasound etc were abnormal because he is tanking way more water than his body needs. We are awaiting further discussions with the vet about how it should be managed. Also about potential causes. 

I have no idea why he'd behave this way at our home but not my parents. It can't be food or exercise, those were the same. We've also been giving him snuffle and lick mats in case he is bored, but this doesn't seem to make a difference. My parents is busier - more people coming and going. In contrast our flat is very quiet generally (especially since all this started). Only guess I have is that he prefers more humans around. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

@tbhounds definitely not diabetes inspidius because he concentrates his urine no problem. I double checked at the time and they were using greyhound specific values.