Grey has had 2 seizures in 24 hrs.. tramadol?

[IndyLouWho]

This is my first time posting on here but I am desperate to reach out to the greyhound community. My sweet Indy (she will be 7 in May) has had 2 seizures within 24 hours. One last night at 8pm and one this morning at 10am. Both times we took her to emergency vet. A little backstory.. she had a tooth pulled at the beginning of the month. Her eye was swollen and she was sneezing a ton. Tooth removed, started an nsaid afterwards & antibiotics were started the week prior to dental surgery. Right after she got off the nsaid the swelling started again. Turned out she had another bad tooth (first vet didn’t have a dental X-ray). The next vet with the dental X-ray said another tooth was abscessed and he was certain that’s what was causing the eye swelling. He got the abscess cleaned out and the surgery went smoothly. He prescribed her to tramadol and an antibiotic (started this Friday evening). We gave her one Saturday morning and noticed she was acting weird when we gave her the tramadol... just thought it might be a side effect. So we didn’t give it to her as often as it said we could. We gave her one Saturday night because you can tell she’s in pain from tooth being pulled. An hour after we gave it to her she had a 4 minute seizure. The ER vet couldn’t say for sure, but said to immediately stop tramadol.. so we did. But this morning she had another at 10am. Vet said tramadol could still be in her system from the previous night. Has anyone else had bad experience with their grey and tramadol? If so, how long did the seizures go on? I’m a total mess. This is the sweetest dog and I can’t stand to see her go through this. We are going to our regular vet tomorrow but I’m just on pins and needles.

[macoduck]

I have limited experience in dealing with seizures.  Do keep a record of the length of each seizure and the time in between them.  Keep us posted.

Editing to add a link:

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/tramadol

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by macoduck

[greysmom]

Yes.  Bad reactions to tramadol are very common in greyhounds.  I wouldn't give her any more at all, and see what the er doc says about something for her pain if she still needs it.  One of my dogs is very sensitive to opioids so we have to do alternatives - gabapentin, amantadine, nsaids can all be used instead.  And for whatever reason, our dog tolerates codiene sulfate, which is also an opioid, but which is better tolerated with fewer side effects than tramadol.

[IndyLouWho]

@macoduck Thank you for that link. That is similar to what we have been reading, but more straightforward and concise. So far no more seizures since yesterday at 10am. But she is on the gabapentin. I’m not sure if that’s what’s helped stop the seizures, or if the tramadol is just out of her system. 

@greysmom Our vet that did the most recent dental extraction that we saw today (who prescribed her to tramadol) emphasized that greyhounds are a very sensitive breed so it definitely could have been the tramadol OR she has been susceptible to seizures and the stress of the two dental surgeries within a month just brought it out. I’m so hoping it’s just the tramadol. How has your grey done on gabapentin? He told us to continue it (this is day 2 where we’ve given 300mg every 12 hrs). Indy has been extremely lethargic (we were warned of this side effect), but tonight she is not eating the chicken and rice I made her which is totally out of character. From your experience did it just take your pup a few days to get used to it? 

[greysmom]

Yes, it can take a few days for a dog to adjust to a new dosage of gabapentin.   She should perk up and regain her appetite soon.  Offer small meals several times a day rather than one or two larger ones as she's probably a bit nauseous.

It's a human drug originally, prescribed to help stop seizure activity, but it's mostly used in dogs with nerve pain - osteo and other cancers mainly.  I had a dog who had a very painful neuroma on her leg that was helped by gabapentin.  It's more recently been added to the arsenal of drugs being used for seizure dogs - it's original purpose.

Has your vet talked about trying to wean her off anytime soon?

[IndyLouWho]

@greysmom Well actually ended out stopping the gabapentin.. back to Rimadyl which is the NSAID she was on originally and doing great on.
 

The vet instructed us that if she has another seizure, get her back on gabapentin and come into see him so we can figure out a dosage that works for her. We were having to literally pick her up last night. She was so lethargic it’s like she couldn’t get herself up on her own and then she would barely shuffle her legs. She also wouldn’t eat anything either. I know time might have resolved that, but the gabapentin was to help with the pain of her dental extraction (her eye area is still painful and somewhat swollen) and possibly help with the seizures if they were going to still occur. Since she hasn’t had a seizure since Saturday morning we decided to just go back to the Rimadyl for the pain and inflammation and just cross our fingers the tramadol was the cause of the seizures. I hope we made the right decision. 

When the vet called today he said her bloodwork looked good, and her kidney levels looked good, but she had some bacteria in her urine so now we’re starting an additional antibiotic for that. So she’ll be on two antibiotics (clindamycin.. can’t remember the new ones name) as well as Rimadyl unless she starts her seizures up again. She hasn’t shown any signs of a UTI so I’m a little thrown off about the bacteria in her urine. Wondering if somehow the abscessed tooth could have caused that? The vet couldn’t pinpoint what could be the cause for it either. 

[greysmom]

Glad she's doing well.  She should start to pick up again soon.

Any infection in the mouth, or anywhere really, can cause problems in other parts of the body.  Hope the new ABs help asap!

[LBass]

Chris, greysmom, has far better Tramadol and Gabapentin advice to give.  I just wanted to chime in about seizures.  One of my Greys had idiopathic epilepsy--seizures with no known cause.  They can be quite frightening so I'll just mention a few things that helped me.  

--Try not to panic.  There is not a lot you can do but ride it out.  You can make sure she's knot hitting/bumping anything while she seizes.   
--Do make a specific note of the time it starts and stops.  Seizures always feel as if they last forever but it can be helpful in determining treatment if you actually know how long they last.
--As she recovers, you can give her something to eat--scrambled eggs, Breyers Natural Vanilla ice cream.  Seizures are quite exhausting.

I hope this is just a temporary medication reaction and that her seizures will be a distant memory soon.  If the seizures do continue, there are are some great online resources for people with dogs who have seizures.  I think those links would be unnecessarily overwhelming for you right now, so I'll hold off posting them for the moment, and we'll all hope and expect that this is just a blip in your girl's dental recovery.   
 

 

[IndyLouWho]

@greysmom thank you so much! She had a really good day today. Back acting like her goofy, grinny, demanding (but grateful) self. 
 

@LBass Thank you! We sure hope so too.I told my husband I have a whole new heart that goes out to people & pets (and their owners) that suffer from seizures! When did your grey’s seizures start? Had he always had issues or did it come later in life? Thank you for all these tips. Although I hope we don’t have to use them, I am taking every bit of advice to heart! The first one was so frightening because I had NO idea what to do. I will most definitely reach out if this turns out to be more common than we are hoping for. 

[LBass]

IndyLouWho, Piper retired and came to me when he was 2 years old.  He has the first seizure I knew about 9 weeks after his adoption.  He and I eventually got them managed quite well, though it took a while to get there and they never stopped completely. I still remember Piper's first seizure.  It was utterly terrifying.  He'd been acting oddly--restless and anxious. I was afraid he was bloating so I took him to the e-vet.  They found nothing wrong so Piper and I came home.  I gated him in the bathroom with me and hopped in the shower.  A few moments later I heard something odd and found Piper having a tonic-clonic seizure on the bathroom floor.  He was flailing his paws so that he caught first one wall, then the commode, then another wall, then the vanity--spinning like a breakdancer on the bathroom floor.  I can laugh about it now--humor is so healing--but not at the time.

I'm so glad your girl had a good day and seems to be getting adjusted to the Gabapentin.  Warm good wishes to you and Indy.

[zimsmom]

On 4/1/2020 at 10:07 PM, IndyLouWho said:

That is one happy looking greydhound!! Love this picture. 

 

 

[IndyLouWho]

@zimsmom Thank you! We’re so glad to have our happy girl acting like herself! 

[LBass]

 

 

[IndyLouWho]

So I thought I would post an update. Our sweet girl quit eating again after the Rimadyl wore off and her eye started swelling again. We took her back to the vet who did her last dental. I also needed a recheck of her urine because she had finished her antibiotics for her UTI. He came out within minutes of seeing her and said her muscles were deteriorating in her head and to get her to the neurologist for a consult that day. He refused the re-check of her urine because that was not a big issue compared to the neurological problem. I was devastated. He, nor the 2 ER vets, nor our regular vet had seen that. Get her to the neurologist and she checks out as just fine. No muscles deteriorating. I’m guessing the swelling of her eye just made him think that. Also... This was the vet that was supposed to remove the suspected root tip. Remember - he said there was no root tip, but another infected tooth that he removed.

After neurologist appt, immediately call a dental specialist 2 hours away. We get her an appt 2 days later (last Friday). There WAS a root tip and CUPS. He did dental X-rays before & after to confirm root tip was gone. Her eye looks so much better. 

Sunday rolls around.. another seizure (#3 now). We were thinking it was the tramadol, but we totally avoided it this time. Gave her gabapentin for a few days after to try to possibly prevent another seizure / help with pain. She was totally disoriented and lethargic. Both specialist and regular vet said stop all meds. So we did. I had my regular vet compare anesthesia she was under during all procedures. Could be a coincidence, but the anesthesia was the exact same with the specialist and the previous vet when she had her seizures in the exact same timeframe.

So where are we now? At a point where my heart feels like it’s in a million pieces. I thought she was dying this morning. She whimpered throughout the night and threw up. She is still so disoriented and dizzy acting. We are feeding her by syringe. She is having accidents. It’s awful. She is drinking. She can walk, though she’s very wobbly. She responds to her name. She can track a frisbee, bird, etc. Cannot walk up 2 steps, have to carry her. My husband took her to vet this morning. Vet said she is definitely not dying. He would in no way suggest putting her down right now (Obviously, great news)  That the disorientation could be from her UTI, she could have had a stroke right after her last seizure. It’s just something where time will tell. 

Please just send up some prayers for my girl. Seeing her go through this tears me up. I don’t want her to suffer. She has been far too good to us to do that to her, but I also want to give her a chance if she’ll recover. Vet said if it’s UTI, once we get her on the right antibiotic (labs results should be in from Memphis either today or Monday) we should see improvement within a few days. If it’s a stroke he said 3-6 weeks for improvement, but up to 6 months to get back to her usual self. We’ve got a journey ahead of us and I just hope we’re on the right path. 

[IndyLouWho]

Forgot to mention, I took a urine sample to our regular vet on Wednesday. There was bacteria. We started on Bactrim (used Baytril sp? last time when bacteria was found in urine). He was nervous about starting her on another medication, but we felt like we had to at least give something a shot because she couldn’t get any ease. Her whining and panting was nonstop for a few days. The labs we get back by Monday should tell us if Bactrim is the correct antibiotic to have her on. 

[MaryJane]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but, - it takes about 2 weeks for a dog to get back to normal after a seizure.  They will be disoriented and will have accidents, also - eating may be off.  They do get back to normal so, keep the faith.

FYI -- I would have to go outside with my girl and keep on telling her to pee because it was like she "forgot" what she was supposed to do outside.  She would also stagger around.  In all cases, a few days to 2 weeks later, she would be fine.  She would have very bad cluster seizures and be hitting herself against the wall (it was bad). Got her under control with meds but, took about 2 years or so.

[MaryJane]

Also, you need to make sure that they culture the urine to find out what the bacteria is that is causing the UTI and what antibiotic will work. My Lucy had many UTI's - she tended to get them in the late fall/early winter. 

 

[IndyLouWho]

@MaryJane If I could, I’d give you a hug right now! My husband and I had felt like seizures could take a little time to recover from. But the vets have told us within minutes-6 hours, if it were just a seizure, she’d be recovered. So we have just been at a loss. It’s so comforting to hear your experience and it puts my mind at a little ease in these tough times! Thank you!

[IndyLouWho]

@MaryJane just saw your post about the UTI! Yes we had it sent overnight to a lab in Memphis. They will culture/do susceptibility testing to see what antibiotic will treat it. I wish that would have been done the first time. This whole thing is a huge learning experience.

[BatterseaBrindl]

No advice ... Just   and

 

[IndyLouWho]

@BatterseaBrindlThank you so much! We need both! 

[macoduck]

Try to video any seizures. That way you'll have a dated record to show your vet and comparisons of increasing or decreasing severity over time.

By any chance does her food or treats have rosemary listed as an ingredient? It's rare, but some dogs will get tremors or seizures from rosemary.

[MaryJane]

4 hours ago, IndyLouWho said:

@MaryJane If I could, I’d give you a hug right now! My husband and I had felt like seizures could take a little time to recover from. But the vets have told us within minutes-6 hours, if it were just a seizure, she’d be recovered. So we have just been at a loss. It’s so comforting to hear your experience and it puts my mind at a little ease in these tough times! Thank you!

 

Also, if your greyhound needs to go on meds for the seizures (more than 1 seizure a month), start with something like zonisamide - it is relatively side effect free. Make sure to go to a neurologist to get the meds as regular vets tend to prescribe pheno which has many more side effects some of which can be very damaging.  You also want to talk to a neurologist for a "cluster-buster" - this is something that you would give if your dog has 2 or more seizures in 24 hours. It is meant to keep another seizure from happening too soon after the last one as this can cause what is called "status" -- literally, a non-stop seizure. My Lucy was on rectal Valium as a cluster-buster but, many neurologists are now using Keppra (there is a generic available that is cheaper). This also allows you to do more treatment at home rather than going into the ER for the seizures. My Lucy had seizures for almost 9 years and we never went to the ER for them - just handled them at home.  She lived a very full life and the seizures never held her back (13+ years).

Another point about seizures, after your greyhound has one it is sometimes difficult for the to settle - they will want to keep on walking around and walking around and this can go on for a few hours. During this time they will be very disoriented and maybe staggering - this passes. I have found giving a bit of yogurt or ice cream (make sure no funny sugars) can settle them faster.  This has been linked with sugar depletion during the seizure and giving a bit of yogurt/ice cream is intended to replenish the sugar store (about a tablespoon or two).

Be forewarned - Stay away from the FB seizure groups - they are really scary and many dogs have died as a result of suggestions by members.  There is a great yahoo group that you should join - tons of information but, I haven't been an active member for a few years  so, it may have changed.  The address is epil-k9@apple.ease.lsoft.com. 

[IndyLouWho]

@macoduckI will mention that to my husband. He’s been with her 24/7 in our upstairs area because that is where she is most comfortable. Our almost 2 year old is so loud and noises are seeming like they stress her out. I have a video of the pre-ictal phase in the first seizure because I had no idea a seizure was about to start. I thought she was behaving crazy and I was trying to get my husband to see it. When she fell over and started foaming at the mouth, I realized what I was dealing with. We’ve been taking notes including the length. This last one on Sunday was a minute and a half including the pre-ictal phase. So by far the shortest of the 3. Similar pre-ictal phase (Biting air). Similar seizure (treading). Post-ictal was similar in the sense she was disoriented, panting, extreme hunger and thirst... but much different in the sense that after she initially ate, we cannot get her to eat without syringe feeding. She also is still disoriented/confused/dizzy acting. So that’s why vet mentioned she may have had a stroke. We do know we’re dealing with a UTI too. I’m bummed because I don’t think the results are going to come in today. I was so hoping we could either confirm she’s on the right antibiotic or get her on the right one over the weekend:(

[IndyLouWho]

@MaryJaneAll great info. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me. You truly don’t understand how much I appreciate it. I asked the ER vet after her 2nd seizure (2 within 24 hours) to give me something that would stop them if they turned into cluster seizures or lasted over 5 minutes. But they told me they did not want to do that because they thought so much of it was related to the tramadol or stress of her surgery. I need to ask my regular vet Monday to see if he would be willing to give me a script for a worse case scenario. I would like to just have something on hand. The closest ER vet is 30 mins away. I can’t imagine trying to load her up if she’s seizing that bad! 

I gave her ice cream last time because @LBasstold me about that tip! I’ve received so much help on here. Thank you everyone!!