Nsaid--Yes/no?

[christinepi]

Tracker, who is now 10.5, started showing some hind end weakness a bit over a year ago. When he stands for a bit without moving, his legs start shaking. I took him to a PT for months. She said he felt better to her, but I never actually saw a difference (which doesn't mean he wasn't helped by her). I also tried laser therapy, no change. I stopped both therapies because I had to drive 45 minutes for them one way, Things have been stable since. Recently he needed a lung x-ray for something else and it was confirmed what the PT had said that there was mild arthritis in his thoracic spine and none in the hips, though his range of motion in the hips was declared not entirely as big as normal. His joints felt good.

 

Sooo... the vet wants him on Galliprant, which costs a fortune, and as an alternative on Rimadyl or Meloxicam. I'm not certain whether this is the right tack (the vet overall seems to be very drug happy). She had me start him on some fish oil supplement ca 4 weeks ago to help with inflammation. She said it might take 6-8 weeks for it to kick in. Right now I feel like at least waiting that long to see whether or not the oil does anything before putting him on an NSAID. The thing that makes it so hard to decide anything in regards to NSAIDs is: they can be bad in the long run (although I would have his liver checked regularly), but could one argue that since the NSAID would help with inflammation, it might slow down the arthritis in the long run, too, even if it perhaps doesn't even bother him that much right now, is that correct? What causes that leg trembling anyway (I always figured there's a problem in his hips, but that doesn't appear to be the case)?

 

He doesn't appear to be uncomfortable. He still hops into the car mostly completely normally and moves normally otherwise.

 

I'm not opposed to NSAIDs, but want to make an informed decision.

 

 

[greysmom]

My opinion:

 

Aging is a fact of life. There are things you can do to help keep it at bay for as long as possible, but eventually it's going to catch up with you. Just like with people, dogs get to the point where they need some help from medications to get through the day. Fish oil and other omega 3 supplements can help, but often they aren't enough. Keeping your aging dog active and at the proper weight is important, as is proper nutrition.

 

Some other alternative treatment you could try would be canine massage therapy, and acupucture. I've become a huge proponent of acupucture lately!

 

As far as nsaids go, they can really help with mild-to-moderate arthritis symptoms. Yes, some dogs can be sensitive to them, but on the whole they are safe and effective. Make sure you give them after eating on a strict schedule, and there shouldn't be any problems. Galliprant is a really new drug so I don't know if many people have tried it. The literature looks promising so it might be worth a shot.

 

Good luck.

[christinepi]

My opinion:

 

Aging is a fact of life. There are things you can do to help keep it at bay for as long as possible, but eventually it's going to catch up with you. Just like with people, dogs get to the point where they need some help from medications to get through the day. Fish oil and other omega 3 supplements can help, but often they aren't enough. Keeping your aging dog active and at the proper weight is important, as is proper nutrition.

 

Some other alternative treatment you could try would be canine massage therapy, and acupucture. I've become a huge proponent of acupucture lately!

 

As far as nsaids go, they can really help with mild-to-moderate arthritis symptoms. Yes, some dogs can be sensitive to them, but on the whole they are safe and effective. Make sure you give them after eating on a strict schedule, and there shouldn't be any problems. Galliprant is a really new drug so I don't know if many people have tried it. The literature looks promising so it might be worth a shot.

 

Good luck.

 

That's reassuring. About the acupuncture: my vet's office offers it. I personally have never been helped by it, and don't really believe in it anyway, but, who knows? Has it really helped you or your dog? I thought about trying it on Tracker, but am currently on the fence about it...

[LaFlaca]

My Wendy is 11 years old and had been showing some hind end weakness for about a year. She has mild arthritis in one elbow and in her spine. When she rose from a prone position, it was as if her hips were very heavy. Her hind legs would occasionally shake. She was still jumping over the arm of "her" loveseat to land on the seat and ran laps around the yard. Because of this, I hesitated to give her any prescribed medication and stuck to glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin, vitamin C , salmon oil and MovoFlex chews. NSAIDS were out of the question because they make her bleed internally. The vet prescribed 100 mg. of gabapentin every 12-24 hours which I withheld because, well, she was still leaping and running like a maniac.

 

I now realize that withholding medication was a huge disservice to my dog. Dogs don't show pain like humans do. They can be in terrible pain and will not necessarily show it...it's a survival mechanism. I started giving Wendy the gabapentin twice a day as prescribed and almost immediately noticed a difference. She moved better, was more interactive with us, more puppy-like, if you will. It was obvious that she had been in pain and the gabapentin was helping.

 

Gabapentin has worked well for my dog. I hope that between you and your vet you can come up with what would best serve your Tracker.

Edited June 23, 2017 by LaFlaca

[Remolacha]

Conner is 12 and has a number of issues with his shoulder/legs/feet, most related to a badly healed hock injury that causes him to limp and throws everything off. Some mild arthritis as well. He takes gabapentin (2 100mg twice a day) and a Chinese herbal called Body Sore. If your vet offers acupuncture, you might ask if they carry it, many acupuncturists do. I would definitely try the acupuncture as well. It might not help, but I have had two dogs that it did help, quite a lot. I did have a dog that was on Metacam for several years for arthritis with no side effects.

[GeorgeofNE]

Nutritional supplements may or may not help very mild forms of arthritis, but it sounds to me like your dog probably has lumbar stenosis and there is no supplement on the planet that will relieve spinal compression. As long as you have the vet monitor your dog's liver function, NSAIDs are a perfectly reasonable course of treatment. My dog probably lived two years longer than he would have through the use of medication.

[greysmom]

 

That's reassuring. About the acupuncture: my vet's office offers it. I personally have never been helped by it, and don't really believe in it anyway, but, who knows? Has it really helped you or your dog? I thought about trying it on Tracker, but am currently on the fence about it...

 

Yes. I was sceptical in the beginning too, but I was desperate to keep my dog off certain harsher meds like prednizone. It has made a tremendous difference for my dogs with nerve issues, anxiety, intestinal issues, pain and lameness.

[christinepi]

OK, I feel much more inclined to give Tracker an NSAID now. One question remains: Wendy is on Gaba b/c she can't have NSAIDs, but what about, Conner, Remolacha? Why is he on Gaba rather than an anti-inflammatory? Is that always an option as an alternative or is Gaba only used in certain situations which may not apply in Tracker's case?

[LaFlaca]

OK, I feel much more inclined to give Tracker an NSAID now. One question remains: Wendy is on Gaba b/c she can't have NSAIDs, but what about, Conner, Remolacha? Why is he on Gaba rather than an anti-inflammatory? Is that always an option as an alternative or is Gaba only used in certain situations which may not apply in Tracker's case?

Gabapentin is actually an anti-seizure medication but it also prescribed (in humans) to treat neuralgia, restless-leg syndrome, arthritis and other conditions. My MIL uses it for arthritis as she cannot tolerate NSAIDs. It was prescribed for my Fibromyalgia but I did not benefit from it.

 

In Wendy's case, it is an alternative to NSAIDs. The vet has seen that gabapentin, aside from pain relief, has a strengthening and steading effect on dogs with hind end weakness and leg shakiness. This certainly has been the result for Wendy.

Edited June 23, 2017 by LaFlaca

[christinepi]

LaFlaca,

 

It appears, then, that Gaba is more like an alternative to NSAIDs if they're not tolerated. Gaba is not a harmless drug in and of itself, so I'm wondering whether I shouldn't go with the NSAID and see wgether Tracker tolerates it ok and then stick with it?

[JohnF]

With NSAIDs you have to watch Kidney function too. You can mitigate against stomach and duodenal ulcers by giving Zantac or similar acid-suppressant drugs.

Quality of life , not length of life is what you should be aiming for.

[LaFlaca]

LaFlaca,

 

It appears, then, that Gaba is more like an alternative to NSAIDs if they're not tolerated. Gaba is not a harmless drug in and of itself, so I'm wondering whether I shouldn't go with the NSAID and see wgether Tracker tolerates it ok and then stick with it?

Correct. However, all medications, prescribed or OTC, have side effects to one degree or another. Every individual, with or without fur, is a world unto his/herself. What works for me, might harm you. Keep doing your research. Discuss all options with your vet and make an informed decision. It's good to know that there are other options if the first doesn't work. You'll do what's best for your boy.

[Remolacha]

OK, I feel much more inclined to give Tracker an NSAID now. One question remains: Wendy is on Gaba b/c she can't have NSAIDs, but what about, Conner, Remolacha? Why is he on Gaba rather than an anti-inflammatory? Is that always an option as an alternative or is Gaba only used in certain situations which may not apply in Tracker's case?

Conner's main problem is in his shoulder and is more nerve and tendon related than arthritis, so he doesn't really need the anti-inflammatory benifits that come from NSAIDs. Also, gabapentin has a pretty high max dosage, so there is a lot of room for increase if he needs it. Seeing a chiropractor has been a big help for him, but if Tracker has any kind of spinal stenosis, you would want to avoid that.

[NeylasMom]

My opinion:

 

Aging is a fact of life. There are things you can do to help keep it at bay for as long as possible, but eventually it's going to catch up with you. Just like with people, dogs get to the point where they need some help from medications to get through the day. Fish oil and other omega 3 supplements can help, but often they aren't enough. Keeping your aging dog active and at the proper weight is important, as is proper nutrition.

 

Some other alternative treatment you could try would be canine massage therapy, and acupucture. I've become a huge proponent of acupucture lately!

 

As far as nsaids go, they can really help with mild-to-moderate arthritis symptoms. Yes, some dogs can be sensitive to them, but on the whole they are safe and effective. Make sure you give them after eating on a strict schedule, and there shouldn't be any problems. Galliprant is a really new drug so I don't know if many people have tried it. The literature looks promising so it might be worth a shot.

 

Good luck.

 

If he's not in much discomfort it doesn't hurt to try neutriceuticals first. Plenty available to treat inflammation - Duralactin, curcumin/turmeric, Boswellia, and so on. They can take longer to see an effect though and may not be sufficient, especially as his pain increases.

 

As far as whether to use the NSAID or Gaba it depends on the issue. For arthritis, I would use the anti-inflammatory unless there was a reason to avoid it (like existing liver or kidney function issues). I know Galliprant is hte new wonder drug in that class, but honestly, it's new and hasn't been tested for long term side effects so I wouldn't be so quick to jump on that bandwagon, again unless my dog had existing liver/kidney issues. Especially if cost is an issue, Rimadyl, Metacamm, Previcox, and Deramaxx are all tried and true options.

 

Once you have the underlying pain managed, PT to rebuild muscle strength to better support the spine may lessen the leg shaking you see and is something I would pursue. Underwater treadmill is a good option for doing that as well as in home PT exercises. Acupuncture - I would just try it. It has been amazing for Violet with her disc issues. Zuri I was never quite sure if it helped him, but I thought it did a bit so we just did it. With Violet there is no question as we see dramatic improvement after the sessions.

LaFlaca,

 

It appears, then, that Gaba is more like an alternative to NSAIDs if they're not tolerated. Gaba is not a harmless drug in and of itself, so I'm wondering whether I shouldn't go with the NSAID and see wgether Tracker tolerates it ok and then stick with it?

I actually think hte Gabapentin carries a lot less risk/side effects than the NSAIDs, but I think what should drive your decision is what the underlying issue is. Though many things can have multiple types of pain involved and so using smaller doses of more than one medication may be a better option.

[greysmom]

Gabapentin is more effective for nerve issues, as it deals directly with how they function. It has very few side effects in dogs, even at super high doses. And as mentioned, the dosing range is very large and can be adjusted day to day.

 

An nsaid is more effective if there is a soft tissue or other non-nerve related problem. It relieves pain and reduces swelling. At proper dosages and with good monitoring of kidney and liver function it can be a good method to help get and keep your dog mobile and COMFORTABLE. There are many different versions that all have their strengths and weaknesses, so there is one that will work for your dog.

 

For something like LS (lumbosacral stenosis, very common in greyhounds), you can have both swelling AND nerve impingement, so Gabapentin and an nsaid work well together. If your vet believes there is no nerve involvement an nsaid alone could be more useful.

 

As stated above, quality of life is what you are aiming for, not just longevity. Medications and/or treatment by other modalities can help your dog live longer and with less pain.

[christinepi]

Wow, thanks so much for all your replies. I think a picture is slowly emerging. I feel like trying an NSAID, either the tried and true, or Galliprant, and if I don't see any change, I could add the Gaba and use it with or without the NSAID. And throw in some acupuncture. I was glad Remolacha advised against chiropratic in case he has LS, because that was one thing I thought of trying. I did try PT over a year ago for months once a week and that did nothing. He loved it, though, because he was fed little bits of chicken by the assistant for 40 minutes.

[LaFlaca]

 

He loved it, though, because he was fed little bits of chicken by the assistant for 40 minutes.

 

You think they love you, but all they really want is food!

[christinepi]

 

 

 

You think they love you, but all they really want is food!

 

 

They're smart that way...

[cleptogrey]

adequan? no side effects, a PITA to load the dog, great results here. we do that w/ metacam for felix. when felix is off the metacam he doesn't show that he's in pain except for the fact that his appetite decreases drastically(1/2c max a day). it's a new lease on life for him. annie just does adequan, she also responds well.

 

https://www.adequancanine.us