Mysterious Coughing/retching

[3greytjoys]

If both flaps in the larynx are not moving normally under light anesthesia, it could mean LP (paralysis of those cartilage flaps means the normal nerve-to-muscle control for opening and closing the larynx is lost or nearly lost. Article with drawing: http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2012/june/laryngeal_paralysis_common_cause_of_respiratory_difficulties_in_dogs-26124

 

Upon my first hound's test under light anesthesia, one flap appeared completely paralyzed; the other flap moved only to a partial degree. She was immediately medically required to stop running outside (no more Greyhound play dates, but my common sense halted her intense running anyway after her initial breathing distress was observed). Throughout life, she continued breathing smoothly during our regular shady, cool temperature, harness walks, or an occasional very brief indoor zoomie. Her breathing at rest remained smooth. She was not a candidate for tie-back surgery, but we managed her condition fairly easily for nearly a decade in our mild ocean influenced climate. I keep all our hounds far away from smoke (whether neighborhood fireplace, BBQ, cigarette, or wildfire smoke).

Edited June 25, 2017 by 3greytjoys

[Neal]

Thanks for the kind wishes. Its truly appreciated. Such a shock when what appears as minor symptoms become something so life threatening.

The arthritis drug was Meloxicom. Was so focussed on the kidney and liver issues, that the great blood test results in May had given a false security.

Over the years there may be intermittent gagging, coughing. However in the weeks leading up, there was a more gagging, and sometimes a coughing like a dog pulling on a lead/collar and catching itself in the process.

However in retrospect it was the increased interest in grass that along with the gagging that should have set off the alarms. It was so intermittent and his form was so good and playful. Perhaps a benefit of the painkiller, he was on a low maintenance dose. A bout of diarrhoea, quickly became black tar and quickly downhill.

Will look into galliprant suggestion above thank your, if we get to that time.

For now its stabilisation. Its been a nightmare indeed.

I hope Trackers symptoms do not develop into anything serious and has many healthy times ahead. So much knowledgable input here always a benefit.

Truly its when something goes wrong, that you realise how perfect it was all along.

[christinepi]

If both flaps in the larynx are not moving normally under light anesthesia, it could mean LP (paralysis of those cartilage flaps means the normal nerve-to-muscle control for opening and closing the larynx is lost or nearly lost. Article with drawing: http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2012/june/laryngeal_paralysis_common_cause_of_respiratory_difficulties_in_dogs-26124

 

Upon my first hound's test under light anesthesia, one flap appeared completely paralyzed; the other flap moved only to a partial degree. She was immediately medically required to stop running outside (no more Greyhound play dates, but my common sense halted her intense running anyway after her initial breathing distress was observed). Throughout life, she continued breathing smoothly during our regular shady, cool temperature, harness walks, or an occasional very brief indoor zoomie. Her breathing at rest remained smooth. She was not a candidate for tie-back surgery, but we managed her condition fairly easily for nearly a decade in our mild ocean influenced climate. I keep all our hounds far away from smoke (whether neighborhood fireplace, BBQ, cigarette, or wildfire smoke).

 

The vet wrote after the procedure: they sedated him prior to anesthesia for the laryngeal exam. and then: "we did give him an injection of Doxapram to stimulate respirations. I did not see any asymmetry of laryngeal movement nor any collapse of the structure of his larynx. However, the movement I did see was less than what I would have expected. Tracker, as an athlete, has a very large trachea and larynx. It is possible that his windpipe is so large that there is not enough pressure to demonstrate the full range of laryngeal movement needed when he is exercising." She concluded he doesn't have severe LP, but maybe is in the early stages.

 

You wrote "If both flaps in the larynx are not moving normally under light anesthesia, it could mean LP". Now Tracker WAS under anesthesia, and maybe that makes for a totally different medical situation, but what do you make of his larynx not moving?

 

Neal, Tracker seems to have more interest in grass now, too, although maybe I'm just being paranoid after reading your post... will watch carefully...

[3greytjoys]

 

The vet wrote after the procedure: they sedated him prior to anesthesia for the laryngeal exam. and then: "we did give him an injection of Doxapram to stimulate respirations. I did not see any asymmetry of laryngeal movement nor any collapse of the structure of his larynx. However, the movement I did see was less than what I would have expected. Tracker, as an athlete, has a very large trachea and larynx. It is possible that his windpipe is so large that there is not enough pressure to demonstrate the full range of laryngeal movement needed when he is exercising." She concluded he doesn't have severe LP, but maybe is in the early stages.

 

You wrote "If both flaps in the larynx are not moving normally under light anesthesia, it could mean LP". Now Tracker WAS under anesthesia, and maybe that makes for a totally different medical situation, but what do you make of his larynx not moving?

 

Perhaps the sedation/anesthesia/Doxapram levels might affect movement, but I lack veterinary surgical education and I was not in the operating room during our first LP hound's test. This Greyhound was as large as our male Greyhound with LP and I don't recall our vet mentioning our Greyhounds' larynx, trachea, etc. being much larger than other large breeds, nor do I know the "light anesthesia" levels used. Great that Tracker doesn't have structural collapse(!), and cartilage flaps appear symmetrical, but if Tracker were my boy, I'd continue to monitor him for symptoms, and check his gum color after exercise (should be healthy pink vs. dark red-purple, or bluish grey). Still seems like normal flap movement could have been viewed if LP were not a factor, but that's simply an uneducated guess.

 

Hopefully, a veterinary professional will chime in about how anesthesia levels might affect the cartilage movements, etc.

[macoduck]

3greytjoys, did you ever try Doxepin for the LP? It worked wonders for Percy.

[Neal]

LaFlaca, you mentioned your Wendy had a near fatal gastric bleed previously. Was it from once off/ occasional or regular NSAIDS ?

[LaFlaca]

LaFlaca, you mentioned your Wendy had a near fatal gastric bleed previously. Was it from once off/ occasional or regular NSAIDS ?

Wendy was given an NSAID (I don't recall which one...maybe Rimadyl?) for pain relief after surgery to close a rather large gash in her leg. The vet gave me a prescription of same along with antibiotics to give her at home. About 3 days after the surgery, I came home from work to a very sick girl and what seemed like gallons of bloody diarrhea. It looked like a river of reddish -brown water with coffee grounds in it. She spent 3 days in hospital, bleeding internally. Needless to say, no NSAIDs ever again for Wendy.

[Neal]

Glad your Wendy recovered and thank you for the information. Trying to understand fully whats happening, as much as possible that is .. Here's to a good week ahead .

[LaFlaca]

Glad your Wendy recovered and thank you for the information. Trying to understand fully whats happening, as much as possible that is .. Here's to a good week ahead .

You're welcome! Happy & healthy week to all!

[3greytjoys]

3greytjoys, did you ever try Doxepin for the LP? It worked wonders for Percy.

 

I would have been eager to try it during earlier years with one LP hound, but learned about it too late. The other hound's LP was too advanced, plus other medical conditions and extreme reactivity to medications prevented it from being added to the mix. I'm so glad sweet Percy was able to benefit from it. (Memories of Percy still warm my heart.)

[macoduck]

Thanks, 3greytjoys. I still miss Percy.

[NeylasMom]

 

3greytjoys - Thank you for this information.

 

To this day, we do not know the cause of Wendy's high fever. All the tests that were done in office and sent out to a lab came back within normal parameters. She is in excellent condition at this time, taking into consideration her age (11 years).

 

However, and this concerns me, there has been something going on in the region of her throat for some time now. While she is no longer coughing and retching frequently, she does occasionally retch for no apparent reason and sometimes after eating dry treats/food. There is also occasional hoarseness, sometimes followed by retching when she barks. Throat irritation of some sort is what it "feels" like to me. Next Saturday is Wendy's 2nd follow-up after the FUO (fever of unknown origin) event. She will also receive her Bordatella vaccination. I am going to bring up the throat topic again with the vet although the symptoms are much improved and occur less frequently now after 2 weeks of antibiotics for the fever.

 

I am unsure if the symptoms are worth the risk of even light sedation on a geriatric Greyhound. Thoughts, anyone?

Did your vet swab and check for the 2 strains of canine influenza?

[LaFlaca]

Did your vet swab and check for the 2 strains of canine influenza?

Yes, she did. It's bizarre that all tests came back normal. Wendy had a temp. of 106 degrees F. and not even her white blood cell count was off. You'd think that there'd be some sign of an infection. What's equally strange is that, as of today, the retching and hoarseness are no longer occurring at a rate that I would consider alarming. At this point, I am watching and waiting...observing when this happens and how frequently so when we see the vet next week, I can provide her with an accurate report. I've been trying to get Wendy on video when she retches to show the vet but, of course, it doesn't happen when I have the phone in my hand.

 

I hope all of our other "coughers" are doing better!

[Time4ANap]

You can probably add Rocket to the list here. I'm noticing it a little more frequently and am leaning toward it being allergies. He has always done that little bit of a gag since the day we got him, and there is no rhyme or reason. It comes and goes. I notice it with him in the morning first thing, and occasionally in the evening after he has been outside, again making me think it's allergies. He is due for a vet appointment in the next couple of weeks, so we will be bringing this up. AZ is dusty, dirty and full of all kinds of pollen year-round, as well as right now there are residual smoke particles in the atmosphere from all of the wildfires north of us. He has also been sneezing a little more frequently.

[christinepi]

I finally got Tracker's allergy test results. He's allergic to a ton of environmental allergens, like "mixed feathers", alder, dust mites, eukalyptus, marsh elder, a bunch of grasses etc. May that explain his retching? I hope so. We were advised to wipe down his chin, belly, and paws after every walk with green tea wipes or diluted chlorhexidine. So we ordered green tea wipes online. Of course, the retching could still be totally unrelated to allergens. And dust mites--there in every house by the millions, can't do much about that. At least he's not allergic to our cat!!

[LaFlaca]

I finally got Tracker's allergy test results. He's allergic to a ton of environmental allergens, like "mixed feathers", alder, dust mites, eukalyptus, marsh elder, a bunch of grasses etc. May that explain his retching? I hope so. We were advised to wipe down his chin, belly, and paws after every walk with green tea wipes or diluted chlorhexidine. So we ordered green tea wipes online. Of course, the retching could still be totally unrelated to allergens. And dust mites--there in every house by the millions, can't do much about that. At least he's not allergic to our cat!!

Tracker, dude, keep away from those feathers and mites! I'll take allergies over the alternatives. I imagine that the retching could be caused by post-nasal drip irritating the poor guy's throat. I suffer from it and frequently develop a cough and a sore throat and even soreness in my nasal passages.

[christinepi]

Tracker, dude, keep away from those feathers and mites! I'll take allergies over the alternatives. I imagine that the retching could be caused by post-nasal drip irritating the poor guy's throat. I suffer from it and frequently develop a cough and a sore throat and even soreness in my nasal passages.

 

I know, right? I just sent the vet a question re post nasal drip. Maybe he has a mild form of it.

[christinepi]

I sent all the info to Dr Couto and he more or less concurrs it's laryngeal paralysis (early stage). He suggested I could do a CT scan and/or ultrasound, but apart from the cost not to mention physical/emotional stress for Tracker (all labs are far away) I just don't see the point. His symptoms are still so mild that he's perfectly comfortable. Should this change, we'll deal with it then. We likely will try Doxepin in the near future, but right now we're trying to figure out how to help him with his hind end weakness and arthritis in his thoracic spine. We put him on Galliprant, and will probably add Gabapentin soon, and that doesn't go well with Doxepin. Once we have his pain dialed in one way or another, we'll try Doxepin.

 

This is my first dog and the idea of his not being around eventually just makes me well up already.

[christinepi]

Btw, Dr Couto wrote this:

 

I strongly discourage Greyhound owners from pursuing surgical correction, since there are lots of complications. I have done it only in dogs where we had no other treatment options.

 

Of the forum members who had this procedure (uni/bilateral tie back) done to their dogs, what was your experience?

[LaFlaca]

Poor Tracker. Did Dr. Couto give you any idea how fast LP is likely to progress? Does this mean that the allergy diagnosis was wrong?

[MP_the4pack]

My Onyx had the left side tieback at age 11. She lived to 15.5.

She had no issues. We just couldn't give her crumbly foods like milkbones because of an increase in aspirate pneumonia.

That's the only thing we had to be vigilant about.

[FiveRoooooers]

I'm glad you consulted Dr Couto. I just wanted to offer how angel Pal was managed. He also had LP and lumbar stenosis. We did acupuncture for a while and it helped until the ride to the vet became too stressful for him. Then we tried Adequan injections and he did really well with those for quite a while. He was also getting Deramaxx, Tramadol, and Gabapentin.

 

Best thoughts for Tracker, hang in there.

[christinepi]

Poor Tracker. Did Dr. Couto give you any idea how fast LP is likely to progress? Does this mean that the allergy diagnosis was wrong?

 

I didn't ask, but I will. He started showing symptoms about a year ago, but there has been no progression. The frequency of cough/retches remains stable, which I'm very glad for. Hope it'll stay that way. He has confirmed allergies, but nobody can tell whether that's what causing the cough/retch. His larynx wasn't moving during inspection, so that would pretty much point to LP, and I guess the allergies aren't really bothering him. Who knows. I wipe him down with wet wipes after every walk now to get pollen off his fur (we're in a rural area with tons of grass and trees).

 

MP, that's so great to hear that things had gone well!

 

FiveRoooers, thanks for your wishes and good to hear acupuncture and the painkillers helped. I will try acupuncture on him asap.

Edited July 8, 2017 by christinepi