We Weren't Expecting This

[Guest kirby3021]

Hi all,

 

My wife and I have had our Greyhound, Ace, for about two months. We both grew up in homes with dogs and are familiar with the problems that can arise, but Ace has been testing our limits almost to the breaking point and I wanted to seek anyone's help who has more experience than me.

 

He has separation anxiety to the point that he'll have accidents in his crate if he's left home alone and he'll bark the entire time. We've tried letting him out of the crate and keeping him gated in a room, we've tried leaving the gate open, we've tried muzzling him, and no matter what we try he starts barking as soon as one of us walks out the door, be it to go to work, get the mail, or take out the garbage.

 

If one of us is gone and he has reign of the house, he'll sit by the door and whine until they come back (doesn't matter how long they're gone). If we gate him in or put him in his crate, he'll whine there until whoever left comes back. If we're both gone, he barks instead. This, plus his tendency to steal anything left out (he's getting better at our house, but when we're visiting my parents we almost always have to keep him muzzled and tethered) have left my wife and I constantly stressed about never being able to go out (we live in a condo and though our neighbors have said they're fine with the barking, one of them just got surgery and needs rest and we don't feel comfortable leaving him barking for extended periods of time) and not able to trust him outside of his crate without one of us being in the same room.

 

Our schedules are such that a dog will be alone about seven to eight hours a day. He can hold it in fine that long (he does it whenever we're home) and we really don't want to keep him crated for such an extended period of time, but as mentioned above we can't trust him yet.

 

A second dog doesn't seem to help - my parents watched him for a day and he still barked when left alone with their dog (whom he's met several times and gets along with). DAP hasn't helped. We're seriously debating whether he needs to be rehomed, one where someone is home constantly, but we really don't want to take that route unless absolutely necessary.

 

We are getting him professional training in February, but before then I wanted to ask if anyone has any advice. Dogs are supposed to be fun (even though they are frustrating at times) and bring more than just stress and frustration into your life, and for these last two months that's almost all that he's brought us. We're both constantly frazzled and on edge. I've dealt with anxious dogs in the past, but I've never dealt with one this needy. Any help would be really appreciated.

[gr8kids]

Do you leave the radio or TV on when you're gone or home? They usually had noise in the kennel and this helps them think there is someone with them.

Did you try and give a kong with treats in it. This can help calm them and they can forget you're gone.

 

Just a few ideas that has worked with me.

 

Good luck!

[spottydog]

Maybe he's just not the right dog for your household. No shame in admitting it. He would likely be better off with a retired or stay at home person. His SA sounds pretty severe...

[BluegrassGrey]

How old is he & how much exercise is he getting?

[Brandiandwe]

Exercise? And have you done any alone training yet?

[Guest kirby3021]

We do leave music for him, as well as a puzzle toy filled with treats. That'll distract him for as long as it takes him to finish it, then he'll start barking again. We've tried all sorts of music genres as well as books on tape and podcasts, but have noticed no difference in his behavior.

 

He gets a one and a half to two mile walk in the morning then another two to three mile walk in the evening.

 

I've been working on alone training with him, but whereas I used to be able to leave for up to ten minutes at a time with him being ok, it's down to just opening and closing the door.

 

I'm really hoping that the trainer we're seeing in February will be able to help. He might also need medication for now, I'm going to discuss that with the vet (we have an appointment next week). It's been really stressful - my wife and I both want to keep him, but we also want him to be happy and our home might not be the best for him, like spottydog said. We've discussed his behavior with the agency we rescued through and they admit that this is the first dog they've rescued that experiences SA to this degree. They mentioned he might need to be rehomed to a household where people are around much more often.

[greysmom]

It's really going to be down to how much work and money you are able to give this dog. SA can be difficult to deal with and needs a lot of concentrated, consistent training and desensitization to deal with. Even then, some dogs simply can't be "only" dogs.

 

Drugs are not a cure-all. They only put your dog's brain in a state where it can better accept desensitization training. You do still have to do consistent alone training while giving anti anxiety meds. It can also be some time before you and your vet figure out which med is the right one for your dog. Just like with people, different prescriptions work differently on each dog. So you often have to try a couple before you find one that sufficiently calms your dog to be able to accept training.

 

You didn't say how old he is, but particularly if he is a young dog, he may need considerably more exercise than that to really tire him out before you go in the morning.

 

While you're figuring it all out, it may be a good thing to try your dog at a doggy day care. This can be expensive, but maybe going a couple days a week will give him enough of a tiring out that he would be better the other days. Or you can see if there's someone who can watch him during the day for you.

 

It's not your fault if you decide this dog isn't a good fit for you, and return him to the adoption group. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. There's the perfect greyhound out there for *you,* and a perfect home for this greyhound. Just maybe not with each other.

[Hubcitypam]

Sounds like he needs a person who is pretty much around 24/7. I worked a dog day care for two years and honestly never found a greyhound that enjoyed that environment.

[Guest LazyBlaze]

Patricia McConnell's little book 'I'll be Home Soon: Preventing and Treating Separation Anxiety' is really good if you can get hold of a copy. It gives an 6-8 week training schedule, which really does take commitment to follow (and someone around all the time during those 6-8 weeks), but according to her works in almost all cases. It worked for a foster whippet we had that barked anytime left. It was a lot of work of my part, but totally worth it. Changed a dog who barked the moment she was left to one who could be left comfortably for 5 hours or so. I was working from home at the time, so was able to follow it pretty much to the letter, although this won't be possible for a lot of working people. McConnell recommends getting a petsitter or daycare or whatever during the training schedule if you can't be at home yourself. This would be temporary, while you work on the training, but again isn't an option for everyone as it's an extra financial commitment. But if followed, the training schedule has an excellent chance of success with the vast majority of dogs.

 

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/store/I-ll-Be-Home-Soon.html

 

Best of luck.

[GeorgeofNE]

Well, if you're already that frustrated after frankly a VERY short time, it's probably best you return him.

 

What made you want a greyhound? Perhaps you'd be better off with an older dog who comes from a home where they know for sure the dog is calm and relaxed.

 

My first greyhound had terrible SA. My second one I was very clear--I could not take a second dog with SA. Buck whined for 2 minutes for the first two days and hasn't made a peep since. There are calm greyhounds out there. I have to wonder how well the adoption group worked at matching first time greyhound owners with this particular dog.

[Guest kirby3021]

Thanks for your responses everyone. We got a Greyhound because all research we did indicated that they were low maintenance dogs and coming from a house where we always had Border Collies, I was looking forward to a dog that didn't require hours of walking every day and slept most of the day.

 

He's two and a half but doesn't really like walks (he's getting better now that we have a route we follow every time he goes out).

 

I'd like to give him a shot with professional training to see if we can make any headway and I'll try out 'I'll Be Home Soon' as well (I'm fortunate enough to have a boss that lets me work from home when needs be). If we don't see any progress within six weeks, we'll rehome him to a home where people will be around much more often.

[Hubcitypam]

In all seriousness two and a half (and the even more frightening a year and a half) can be hard ages. For "starter dogs" ones around four always seemed to settle in nicely.

[Guest kirby3021]

Thanks again everyone for your advice. Yesterday we talked with our vet, our trainer, and our main contact at the agency and decided it would be best for Ace to find a new home. They were all of the opinion that the behaviors he's exhibited indicated both a Greyhound currently unhappy with his environment and separation anxiety of a severity to need careful, time-consuming training that we simply cannot do in our current work situation. Contrary to what I'd thought, we've also noticed indications that a second dog around his size would help some of his behaviors (he is much easier to walk when there are other dogs around and gets really excited when another dog visits our home). We simply don't have the finances or space for another dog of his size.

 

My wife and I are both pretty upset about this whole turn of events - we never imagined that taking this course of action would be best for our dog and us. I can hardly look at him because I feel so guilty. Between the six dogs (including Ace) we've cared for in our life, however, none has required more attention and constant care than he has. My boss is ok with me working from home until our agency finds him a new home, provided it doesn't take excessively long.

 

Just a few questions for everyone. What's the best way to help him adjust to a new home? We're sending his beds, coat, toys, etc. with him, but is there other stuff we can do to help his adjustment? Is this kind of behavior typical for Greyhounds? My wife and I decided on a retired racer because we'd read that they were low-maintenance dogs that didn't require lots of long walks (though I don't have a problem with that, if needs be) and slept most of the day. As our work schedules now leave an eight hour gap where a dog would be home alone and we live in condos, we can't have a dog that can't stand any alone time - it's not fair to our neighbors, and it's not fair to the dog.

 

I'd like to find a dog that will fit well with our environment, but I think it might take a while before my wife and I are both ready again. As I said earlier, we're both pretty upset and feel like we failed, despite hours and hours of research and desensitization & alone training.

[Hubcitypam]

Edited January 31, 2017 by Hubcitypam

[DonnaBehr]

Don't hit yourselves over the head. You have made the right decision so that he can be re-homed in an atmosphere that he can handle. Maybe he just can't be an "only" and needs another dog or dogs to be with.

[Guest LazyBlaze]

I'm really sorry. I know how hard it is to rehome a dog and you have my very best wishes. Sometimes you have to make the toughest choices, but hopefully in the long run this will work out better for both Ace and for you.

 

Separation anxiety can be a problem with any dog, not just greyhounds. You've just been very unlucky with Ace. When you're ready, it'll be a case of you finding a hound that doesn't mind being left, and your rescue should help with that, especially given your experience with Ace. There will be PLENTY. Loads of houndies on this board are left home alone with no issues at all. I've always had two dogs, but the odd time Blaze our grey has been on his own he really couldn't care less. As long as he gets his exercise, his food and treats and his sleep (LOTS of sleep!) he's a very contented boy.

 

Sorry again, and hugs.

[greysmom]

It's not a failure on your part, or on the part of your dog. Sometimes the matches just don't work out. You are doing what's best for everyone involved.

 

Please consider that your boy has now spent a good amount of time in a real home, and that your group should have a much better idea of what his ideal living situation should look like. In effect, you been his foster home for the past two months. This is not insignificant! Foster homes provide much needed socialization and teaching for their dogs and they are *very* important!

 

I know you feel traumatized right now. Take some time and reassess your situation. There is a greyhound out there for you, and your instincts about the suitability of this breed for your lifestyle were good. *When* you feel like adopting again, consider an older dog or a "bounce" (a dog returned to the adoption group through no fault of his own - owner illness, or moving). That way, your group will know if that dog can be a good solo dog and what their personality is like.

 

We hope to see you back posting here about your new companion soon!

[Guest kirby3021]

Thanks all for your support. Rest assured I'll be back when we find the right greyhound for us - we're upset that this time didn't work out, but now we have a much better understanding of what kind of dog will be a good fit for our living situation and we were able to provide very specific feedback to our contact at the agency about what kind of situation will be ideal for Ace. Here's to hoping he finds the perfect home (we're watching him in the meantime, I'd like to prevent all the stress I can during this time).

[Hubcitypam]

As stated...do not beat yourselves up.

Greyhounds grow up with their litter-mates then go into a kennel with around seventy of their best friends nearby and kennel help coming and going all the time. For some dogs it's a long way to feeling stranded in a living room. As stated by my totally unscienfic self a thousand times BIG boys (80 to 90 pounds) have seemed to somehow have less separation anxiety.

[carronstar]

Please don't beat up on yourself. Try to turn it around and think of it as a fostering and learning experience for Ace as well as you and your wife. Ace is now more used to a home and knows how to relate to people in that environment, the group will know to place him in a home where his separation anxiety will be managed, and you have learned that you need a different type of greyhound -- and they are all different. I had one with such bad SA that she ate through the walls, tried the metal door, cried, etc. Yet she was the star of her therapy dog class and then graduated to an in-home therapy arrangement which was a harder test to pass. My girl now HATES walking, has no idea why I want her to do it. Both were learning curves for me but now I have the tools to deal with the situations. That is what you have given yourself, knowledge of what you can and can't deal with and how to deal with it. Just remember, if you see Ace again, he will be happy to see you and that is what matters most. You helped him to be ready for his forever home.

[greysandmollie]

I had a similar experience with my first greyhound. He was young and I was single and worked everyday. He was very unhappy...and ultimately so was I...I returned him. It took about a month or two before I was ready to try again. This time I got a 4 year old actually he was almost 5. He was perfect in every way....took him about a week to ease into home life and was my best friend and most perfect dog. Well Not really..he was stubborn and a piece of work in some ways. But perfect for me and my life.

[mychip1]

Yes...don't give up on the breed....you are correct that most are low maintenance....but, yes, SA can be an issue because of their social upbringing. My first one was the easiest going, perfect dog....

[3greytjoys]

Quote: "Is this kind of behavior typical for Greyhounds? My wife and I decided on a retired racer because we'd read that they were low-maintenance dogs that didn't require lots of long walks (though I don't have a problem with that, if needs be) and slept most of the day. As our work schedules now leave an eight hour gap where a dog would be home alone and we live in condos, we can't have a dog that can't stand any alone time - it's not fair to our neighbors, and it's not fair to the dog." End quote.

 

Newly retired Greyhounds from the track or kennel require an adjustment period. Time varies. Everything about solo home life is completely foreign (and often scary) to a new hound suddenly separated from his/her kennel full of hounds and people. Every Greyhound's reaction is individual. Generally, youngsters are like full grown puppies, and usually don't begin showing maturity until at least age 3. New dogs (who may feel they're being abandoned when humans walk out the door) often need extra potty outings during the day, sometimes their body can't physically hold urine/bowel as long as they can while humans are home when dogs are feeling safe/relaxed within their family unit. They also need extra outings before humans' departure.

 

Quote: "I'd like to find a dog that will fit well with our environment, but I think it might take a while before my wife and I are both ready again. As I said earlier, we're both pretty upset and feel like we failed, despite hours and hours of research and desensitization & alone training." End quote.

 

Often, SA is mild and simply linked to environmental changes, other times it could be linked to genetics. (Only one of our hounds has had genetic SA.) In your case, I would recommend waiting until your group can find an older, more independent, proven confident Greyhound perhaps between ages 6-8, or a brood matron, etc. (Our wonderfully confident, current brood matron is 15; they can live a long, healthy life.) Of course, all dogs require some maintenance: Greyhounds' adjustment period to an urban home/family life; and since you're in a condo -- likely at least 4-5 daily elimination walks in all weather (our younger hounds ask for 5-7 yard potty outings); a lifetime of daily tooth brushing; regular veterinary care, including fecal and blood tests; full professional dentals (Greys often have poor teeth); nail trimming, etc. Yes, most Greyhounds snooze often but hounds with severe SA may not be able to fully rest until their people are safely home to sleep for the night. All dogs (regardless of activity level) are pack animals and desire to be with family, whether animal or human. I don't know your reasons for wanting a dog (aside from lower energy level than your previous Border Collies), but perhaps another option worthy of consideration might be an indoor cat who could be toilet trained (eliminating the need for a litter box). Many cats can be walked with harness and leash, but walks wouldn't be a multi-outing daily commitment like dogs.

 

Under the circumstances, please try to remember that you are doing what's best for Ace. Greyhounds are a wonderful breed. Best of luck to you and your wife.

[Guest Izzy2]

My Lily suffered terribly from desperation anxiety. She messed everywhere and cried to the point my neighbour came and told me. I ended up putting her in a crate with a cover over the top to make it her "safe place" as well as leaving the TV on for her. I was advised by a dog behaviour person to do this half hr before I went out and to not speak to her just potter about doing things and to certainly not tell her I won't be long. I must admit this did eventually work to the point I would leave the cage open so if she needed her "safe place" she could go to it.Lily eventually had the run of the house!!! I also made a huge fuss when I got home if she'd not messed everywhere. Hope this helps