Stubborn Little Darling

[Guest Nat13]

Hi!

 

My husband and I have just adopted a 5yr old female ex racing greyhound! Given she’s only now been with us for 5 days, she’s as good as gold. She goes to the toilet outside, sleeps through the night (and a large amount of the day), loves her food, is fine to be left in her crate when we go out, is very affectionate and is starting to show her personality now that she’s settling in. I’d read a lot about ex racers struggling to settle into houses, but she certainly doesn’t seem to have that problem. Stairs where scary the first night, but even those she’d sussed by day 2.

 

The only problem is that she’s incredibly stubborn. 50% of the time when I want her to get up off her bed to come to the garden and go to the toilet, I have to physically lift her up until she’s standing before she’ll move, as no amount of tempting with treats, coaxing, or squeaky exited voices (which I read on another thread can work) will tempt her to budge. She always goes to the toilet once in the garden so I know it isn’t that she doesn’t need to go. Equally, when we go out for a walk, she’ll sometimes walk ok, and other times she just stops dead, refusing to move or make eye contact and will only walk back in the direction of home. I’ve been trying not to let her win these arguments, not wanting to reward the stubbornness, but I don’t want to tug her or scare her if she’s uncomfortable so I’m at a loss with what to do. I’ve ended up twice now half way down our street waiting her out. Yesterday I eventually got her moving with the squeaky noise thing, and then today (after about 10 mins of refusing to budge), I managed to tempt her into a side street to do a short loop round the block (although not in the direction I had intended to go)! She did do about a 40 minute walk yesterday with me so it could be that she’s tired (I’m aware she’s been in a rescue kennels for 2 months waiting for a home so probably isn’t used to long walks), or nervous, or just plain stubborn, I’m really not sure. Again, when I eventually got her to a small strip of grass today on the walk, she did her business straight away, so she clearly did need to go.

 

Now I’m well aware that it’s early days and she’s still settling in, and I know that greyhounds can be a stubborn bread. My husband and I are very happy to invest as much time as needed to train her and get her comfortable with us, and in every other way she’s the perfect dog, so please don’t think I’m complaining. I could just do with any thoughts on how to deal with the stubbornness. Like I said I think it’s important I don’t let her win, but I really don’t want to scare her or stop her trusting me. Any thoughts would be welcome,

 

Thanks,

Natalie (me) and Nina (my beautiful grey)

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Not to burst your idea of greyhounds but your statement about "greyhounds can be a stubborn breed" is absolutely incorrect.

 

Imagine you abducted by aliens and taken to their homeworld. They feed you weird food you have never had before, touch you like nobody really has before. They look at you weird, and have other things come in and look at you weird. They may even have weird other "animals" around that you have never seen. The walls, floor, smells, sounds, sights are all different. EVERYTHING is different. The sky is even a different color! Now this alien that you dont know, is speaking to you and you dont understand what they are saying. They grab you and pull you up and push you outside. You dont know, are they taking you to eat you? Whats going on? You were safe in a warm place on a comfortable bed minding your own business.

 

This is the world that your greyhound is in. They are not stubborn, they are terrified trying to get a handle on what is expected of them. They are quite amazing when you think about it. An adult dog that has already learned what life is about can suddenly retrain their entire life to be a pet.

 

Have patience and understand where they are coming from. Your hound will get the hang of it. Maybe your hound doesnt need to go out when you think. You will know when the hound needs to go, She will get up and pace around sniffing. Yes they need to be on a schedule, but there are times when you may need to try their schedule.

 

Chad

[locket]

^This, what Chad said, very important!

It is not a case of letting her have control over you or not (believe me I have been there!). She is just telling you things are moving way too fast for her at the moment and she is telling you by stopping and not moving an inch!

All my problems stopped when I stopped pushing my dog out of his comfort zone. We would walk until he froze, then we would turn back and head home. The next day we walked a house further, the day after we walked by another house and so on (if he wanted to). They don’t need much walking in the beginning as everything is so new and they are already so overhelmed from learning so many things!

If she is sleeping on her bed, chances are she doesn’t need to go. Rule of thumb in our house was : whenever he gets up from his bed - woosh outside! If you REALLY need her to go, put her collar on and clip the leash, sometimes that’s all they need to follow

Good luck, and take it easy with your girl, she is still adjusting and she will keep changing, it won’t be like this forever!

[Guest LazyBlaze]

Yeah, we thought Blaze was stubborn too to begin with (he's our first grey). But he was just overwhelmed, we realise that now. Sometimes there's just too much information to take in, and the result is a hound that gets stuck, or 'statues' (and with Blaze the statue also gets a drippy nose ). He still sometimes gets a little bit stuck with things, but it's fairly rare and quite easy to deal with now. Patience and gentle encouragement go such a long way in helping with this. Sometimes your hound just needs a little time-out, and maybe a mental change of context. As previous posters have said, they are just dealing with information overload, after living fairly sheltered and predictable lives. They are amazing dogs to be able to adjust as they do, when you think about it.

 

Look forward to seeing pics of Nina! Best of luck, you'll get there.

[Feisty49]

Planting themselves is one thing Greyhounds are very good at. My girl did it when I first adopted her over 4 years ago, and it brought me to tears. I was given a couple of tips from a trainer to get her moving again.

 

One is to hold her close to your thigh and pushing firmly but gently on her neck/shoulder area, walk in a circle. When you come out of the circle, keep on walking. Oftentimes getting the feet moving is all that's needed.

 

The other suggestion is to gently but firmly give a shove on her shoulder and then start walking. Again, often when the feet are forced to move, your girl may come out of her daydream.

 

As I said, I've had Annie for over 4 years and she still occasionally plants herself and gazes into the sky. I do call her a stubborn Greyhound because when I get her attention, she just looks at me like "Huh? You want me to do what?" She'll usually move by me using my mom voice and saying, "Annie, come now." If that doesn't work, I give the shove on the shoulder. That always works.

 

Your girl (name and picture??) sounds much like my girl. She was almost perfect from the very beginning, with one difference being she loved to walk, though planting once in a while. The problem was getting her to want to go home. I had to cross a busy road to get to the driveway, and she liked to plant herself in the middle of the highway.

 

ETA: I'm on the fence about how much a Greyhound can take regarding a new home and new situations. Many of my Greyhound friends are of the opinion that they are dogs and should pretty much be treated as a dog, without much coddling. I believe that every dog, Greyhound or otherwise, has to be assessed as to what will be too much. The one bit of advice I will give is not to be afraid. I remember thinking that Annie was soooo special because she was a Greyhound, that I had to be extremely careful about handling her, walking her, feeding her, etc. It took me a couple of weeks to realize that there were some things to be careful about (to this day she doesn't like small spaces and avoids them) but that overall, she is a dog.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Feisty49

[rsieg]

"[W]hen we go out for a walk, she’ll sometimes walk ok, and other times she just stops dead, refusing to move or make eye contact and will only walk back in the direction of home."

 

This is called "statuing" as mentioned in a previous reply, if you search it on Greytalk you will find tons of posts relating to it. The usual explanation is they get sensory overload and their response is to just stop. Stopping, or wanting to go home, sounds like either sensory overload or just getting nervous and wanting to return to the safe place.

 

I do have to say, greyhounds can be stubborn. My dog Logan is genuinely stubborn when it comes to turning around at the half-way point of a walk (you know, to go back to the house or car after walking for a half hour or longer). He will refuse to turn around, and it can be a 5 min negotiation to get him to turn around and even after that he seems to be pouting on the way back. I choose most of our walks to follow a circle so this doesn't arise :-)

[Time4ANap]

 

 

One is to hold her close to your thigh and pushing firmly but gently on her neck/shoulder area, walk in a circle. When you come out of the circle, keep on walking. Oftentimes getting the feet moving is all that's needed.

 

The other suggestion is to gently but firmly give a shove on her shoulder and then start walking. Again, often when the feet are forced to move, your girl may come out of her daydream.

 

 

 

Rocket has been here 7 years and still does this sometimes. The two tips above work well.

 

The other thing that I find I sometimes have to do is to hold his leash right at the collar. I'm assuming this is how he was led to the racing box, because as soon as I put my hand there, he knows that i mean business and starts walking wherever I want him to go. I don't even have to tug if I just take up the leash slack right at his collar.

 

Everything is new in her world at this point. Take a step back and watch her discover all of these new things. It;s pretty fascinating and really fun to watch.

 

Congratulations on your new girl! Sounds like she's doing great and just needs a little time for the new routine.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Time4ANap

[GeorgeofNE]

Do not physically manhandle her to get her outside. Instead, clip her leash to her collar and coax her out that way. Seems like you got yourself a mostly "plug and play" dog, but you are rushing her adjustment a bit!

[BatterseaBrindl]

Good advice already given.

 

Please read this...

 

http://www.greyhoundinfo.org/?page_id=341

[Guest Nat13]

Look forward to seeing pics of Nina! Best of luck, you'll get there.

 

Nina - Day 1 - Sceptical by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

 

Nina - Day 2 - Snow (to add to the confusion) by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

 

Nina - Day 2 - Comfortable or just tired? by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

 

Nina - Day 3 - Innocent? by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

 

Nina - Day 4 by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

 

Nina - Day 5 by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

Edited January 20, 2016 by Nat13

[Guest k9soul]

She's beautiful I'm sure as the weeks go by and she gets used to her new routine she will become more responsive and eager

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Stunning black girl! I love the silky black hounds. She is comfortable since she is roaching (sleeping upside down). They wont do that if they are not at least a little comfortable.

[Guest Nat13]

Thank you everyone very much for your suggestions, they're all really helpful! That was my fear that she was just a bit overwhelmed by everything, and her nose was running whilst we were walking today too which I'd read elsewhere was a sign of nerves. I'll make sure I take it easy with her whilst she gets more comfortable with everything and we will try going at her pace. I'll also try some of the tricks suggested for getting her to walk and go out when she needs to and see how we get on. As you can see from the above photos she's having no problem relaxing into the house!

 

I had thought about engaging a trainer at some stage to help with starting to train her and do off lead training when we get to that, but my feeling had been that given how new and scary everything is already it wasn't a good idea to introduce another person and set of expectations too soon. At least we don't have any other pets of children for her to get used to so she has the house to herself. We'll carry on with the routine and hopefully she'll get more confident in time.

[Guest k9soul]

If she's sniffing around on walks and the "runniness" is clear, it's probably just a natural reaction to enhance smells, and is pretty common. Rudy's nose often gets a bit drippy on walks if he is sniffing a lot of things. From what I understand, It's part of how the VMO (vomeronasal organ) functions in a dog's sense of smell in regards to chemical/pheromone processing. I believe I read about this in one of Patricia McConnell's books, perhaps in For the Love of a Dog, or The Other End of the Leash (either of which are exceptional books which are extremely informative about dogs and how they communicate and perceive things). I love recommending Patricia McConnell's books especially to newer owners as there is so much good information and it is easy to read and not too heavy/scientific terminology.

Edited January 20, 2016 by k9soul

[Guest LazyBlaze]

Ah, she's beautiful!

 

Lots of good suggestions above for helping get the statues on the move again. Greytalk has the answers to almost all of the stuff we struggled with in the early days, it really rocks!

[Guest xengab]

Hi, I didn't read alllll the good responses you got. But one thing I find helps get my boy up when he just wants to stay in his bed, is looping his leash around his neck, even loose he just gets right up. Some dogs can get upset with being made to stand up, so if she growls, please respect her and back off.

Im six months in with my first grey, he is awesome. Only had a few accidents in the house but nothing major and it happens.

As others will say it takes months for them to adjust. But ours has been cuddly since day one, that hasn't changed..But he is a little more naughty and willing to check more things out.

 

Greyhounds are very smart dogs, dont let that sleeping fool you. IF you can find a way to teach your girl in a manner that SHE has to think it through and do it, then it will stick. They are very observant dogs, dont assume yours isnt watching your every move, she is. She might just wait until the time is right to act on it

I've found mine is curious like a cat. He will wait until we go or become distracted to check out that mug of tea on the table.

[smurfette]

We had that staying in bed all day thing when our boys where new, too - with every one of them. Since they are all settled all of them come running tp the door whenever I get near it. They want to go outside all the time. But when I take them with me, or only one or two of them and I forgot to turn the rain off, I have a couple of really stubborn boys wanting to go back inside because it is entirely my fault that they got wet.

[JohnF]

What a beautiful dog. Once they start roaching they're home.

Yes they can be 'cussed' little things, same as kids.

Peggy will statue sometimes if I won't take the long path, so I just go along it a little way and still turn off thereby getting my own way. (trading)

Leads and coats being picked up (and muzzles too) are 'going out signs'.

 

Enjoy your new best friend..... 'plug and play greyhound' someone said.... Yeah.... just update the 'drivers'

[Feisty49]

Your girl is beautiful. Annie's nose drips sometimes and there is not one thing I can associate with it. She drips when she is happy, or so I assume because she's acting like it. It might drip in the house or on walks. It might drip just .. whenever.

 

I know that there is a lot of advice about the signals dogs give and what they mean, but I have always wondered how *people* know? Granted, a growl is pretty obvious, as well as the tail between the legs, but a dripping nose? Lips quivering? Ears back or up? Except for growling, which Annie has never done, and the tail, which she does very seldom, I don't know a consistent reason for the other three. Her lips quiver a lot, even when it seems to me she shouldn't be excited or happy. Her nose drips for no apparent reason. Her ears are back most of the time, going into fox-ear mode only when something catches her eye.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Feisty49

[Guest Nat13]

We seem to have taken a step backwards now and yesterday she wouldn't go out of the garden to walk at all, just statued when I opened the gate. The good news is that I'm now almost certain it's just that she's really scarred, and not being stubborn. Yesterday we tried all sorts to get her to come out for a walk just so that she could go to the toilet (our garden has no grass and she will only do No. 2s on grass)! In the end we lifted her into the car and my husband dropped us at the park at the bottom of our street. She knew which way home was (clearly a clever girl as several people have said) and she walked straight back, good as gold, and even went to the toilet on the way.

 

However this morning when I tried to take her into the garden to go to the toilet, she ran back upstairs as soon as I picked up her lead and peed on the landing carpet lol. We're now going to try putting our coats and her lead on and off just when we're in the house and treating her afterwards so she stops associating the lead with going for a walk or anything bad, and at least I now know we can get her to walk back in the direction of home from the bottom of the street.

 

She hasn't growled once or shown any aggression at all towards me, she really is an angel in every other way, she just gets very shaky and refuses to move, or runs away and hides, if she thinks we're going for a walk. Given we didn't have this problem for the first few days, I can only assume that she's gotten to like us and the house and is terrified that we're going to take her away from it. We'll keep working on it and hopefully she'll stop being afraid once she realises she's here to stay!

[rsieg]

Have you tried driving her somewhere to walk? If you have a public park nearby that allows dog walking that can be a good option, the dog may get so excited about the exotic smells she forgets to be scared. Plus if you drive somewhere she doesn't know a direction to go home (though she may just want to go back to the car).

[JohnF]

Time for a refresher in how to understand the signs.... Just take it easy and allow her to approach you gently. You're trying too hard.

 

They can hold their pee for ages and carpet peeing after running back in could just be submissive behaviour borne of bafflement. You need to learn how to mime-speak dog and read the language too (where those Calming Signals matter) and not anthropomorphosise too much. She is probably not so much scared as bewildered, so a set routine will eventually win her round. I think most of us find our new dogs go backwards in that early stage.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

nice that the picture of a greyhound is used as the example. Greyhounds have the best form of true canine communication. They havent been raised as pets so they have their natural communication still intact.

[robinw]

She me times my guys run upstairs instead of going out, especially in the winter. I just walk upstairs, put their collars on with the leads attached, and nonchalantly walk them downstairs and outside.

[Guest Nat13]

Time for a refresher in how to understand the signs

 

Wow thanks for linking this article. Our girl has been doing the butt-up, front down stretch position a lot (we just assumed she was stretching- stupid us). My husband just tried mimicking the stretch and she got all waggy tailed and playful and bouncy and really seemed to come out of her shell a bit more which is great!!

 

We've started letting her into the yard with no leader on now. We didn't want to do this initially just in-case she tried to jump the fence but it's clear she doesn't want to leave the yard. She's responding much better off lead in the garden, happily going out without coercion, running around and responding to her name when I call her and doing her business.

 

So we're now trying baby steps to get her to start walking again. We've left her in the yard a few times and gone out of the back gate for a few minutes and then returned to her. We've been putting her collar and lead on and off in the house and treating her so she isn't afraid of the lead, and today we managed to take her on lead out of the front door, around the house and back in the back gate into the yard, so that's good progress. My only minor concern is that she isn't getting a lot of exercise this way, just a handful of runs around the garden each day, but I'm kind of assuming at this point that it's best to try and go at her pace as we build her trust and confidence?