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When Is It Time?


Guest houndgirl
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Guest houndgirl

Hi Everyone,

 

For 2.5 years, my 8 year old girl has been suffering from chronic bronchitis. She's gone raw and we visit alternative and traditional vets almost weekly for the duration of her illness. There are good days and bad days. A good day means a 15-20 minute walk without her giving up and lying down on the ground. Even through the green snot, sneezing snoring, or hacking coughs-- she seems happy, putting up her ears and sneaking into bed for a cuddle.

 

She has burned through 3 brands of antiobiotics until she developed allergies and we are running out of options. We recently moved from the city to seaside, hoping that the sea-air would help her condition. I've had friends tell me that is time to consider putting her to sleep, her labored breathing attacks significantly effects her quality of life at least 3-4 days a week. We have a new vet in this town, taking us through the same therapies we have tried over and over. In addition, the vet has advised against using the air conditioning or running the vacuum, as it exacerbates her condition. Somedays her eyes are bright and clear and she'll wag her tail for dinner. Other days, she can't keep her meal down for all the medications.

 

How do you know when it is time?

 

I just looked for a picture I could attach of her, but in the past year, they are all of her laying on her bed. But here's one from last year outside in the grass!

11666230_10200668262145055_8141904261569

Thanks, Emily & Pavi

 

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Consider a consult with Dr Couto. He can review your girl's case and may see something that other vets have missed.

 

http://www.coutovetconsultants.com/for-ownersadopters/

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
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With a chronic illness this is never an easy decision to justify. The fact that you're thinking about it in the context of your dog's wellbeing means that there is already 'no blame' should that be the path you choose to take. Sometimes they give us a sign that enough is enough, more usually not. Prayers are on their way...

 

For now though, why not seriously ask your vet if your poor girl could be treated 'as though' she has a TB infection? Drugs and combinations could include:

Clarithomycin. Doxycycline. Enrofloxacin. Isoniazid. Rifampin.

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I agree with the above suggestions to reach out to Dr. Couto and also asking about the TB protocol.

 

Now, please don't think I am crazy here... I have congenital chronic bronchitis myself. It has always been a royal pain. HOWEVER, about 5 years ago my doctors started me on a ridiculousy simple protocol which has vastly improved my state. They had me start taking an allergy med every morning to stop the post nasal drip which is what caused the coughing fits that were a real misery. I take generic Zyrtec. Maybe it is worth at least asking your vet or Dr. Couto if this is something that might work for your girl.

 

I am so very sorry you are both going through this.

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>>They had me start taking an allergy med every morning to stop the post nasal drip which is what caused the coughing fits that were a real misery>>>

 

I think you could be onto something quite valuable here! I take a spoon of Manuka Honey in coffee on days when I have a bad cold or 'flu precisely to deal with the post-nasal drip reinfection issue The active ingredients in Manuka Honey don't get broken down by warm drinks as can the Hydrogen Peroxide in regular honey. Try to use strength 30+ when dealing with a serious infection.

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I think you could be onto something quite valuable here! I take a spoon of Manuka Honey in coffee on days when I have a bad cold or 'flu precisely to deal with the post-nasal drip reinfection issue The active ingredients in Manuka Honey don't get broken down by warm drinks as can the Hydrogen Peroxide in regular honey. Try to use strength 30+ when dealing with a serious infection.

This was truly a life changer for me and it honestly could not be simpler. My best friend is an ER doc and she mentioned it, then I spoke to my GP and he confirmed. Before that, I had the worst cough that I spent my whole life being told to stop smoking. A permanent employee when I was temping had me sent home, even though HR understood that it was a chronic issue and not anything that was remotely possible to pass on to someone else.

 

No needing a nebulizer, no multiple missed work days, etc.

 

Manuka honey is not something I would have thought of but that is a great idea!

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When I was dealing with chronic bronchitis, lemon tea with honey would clear out the congestion. Check with the vet and see what he/she says. As above, Manuka honey might also help as well as allergy meds.

 

While chronic bronchitis was not easy to deal with, it was not so horrible that I was not able to enjoy life .....

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Guest houndgirl

Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions! I will discuss them with our vet and see if it is possible to find Manuka honey in Croatia.

 

Her coughing fits often deprive her of oxygen, causing her to stumble and fall. We have had some luck with a mint/eucalyptus syrup, but her attacks haven't gotten below 4-5 a day. At best, we have had 2-3 days off antibiotics before she starts sliding back toward bronchial pneumonia.

 

I hadn't heard of Dr. Couto, but will inquire about a consultation!

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A consult with Dr Couto will be of such a benefit. He usually responds with 24-48 hours depending on time zones etc. He will review her chart, treatments, diagnostics done and previous labs etc... His catch name in the veterinary community is "The Greyhound Guy".

I hope he can provide you a treatment plan and she can become well again.

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dr. couto does respond quickly. has anyone thought GERD? i had the worst cough in the world, dd could find me if we were separated by my hacking cough. once i went on a PPI it was gone! it sounded like- bronchitis or really bad allergies(which i have anyway). the dose of zyrtec and possibly a low dose of an antibiotic might keep it at bay if it's not acid reflux(gerd). best of luck...

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What long term medications is she on for the bronchitis? How does she respond to steroids? It comes down to whether there are any meds that help her, or any other reasonable options you can try, combined with what her quality of life is.

 

I thought it might be helpful to include a link to your previous thread:

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/298618-chronic-respiratory-problem-any-advice/

Jennifer &

Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On),

Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice

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Sorry to hear that she is still having problems. What treatments has she has from the alternative vets? Olive leaf extract can be very effective again stubborn infections http://www.entirelypets.com/olleafex.html.

 

Edited to add: I tried to PM you but you don't have enough posts yet. Please could you email me on alwaysgreyhounds @ live . co . uk (without the spaces) as I have another suggestion.

Edited by Hawthorn

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When a relationship of love is disrupted, the relationship does not cease. The love continues; therefore, the relationship continues. The work of grief is to reconcile and redeem life to a different love relationship. ~ W Scott Lineberry

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Guest BlueCrab

So sorry you're going through this. Hope some of the options help.

 

As far as the larger question of "when to do it": in other threads I've seen it mentioned that your dog should have 3 things they enjoy. We lost our big fluffy guy over Mother's Day weekend to kidney failure. His three things were throwing his toys around at mealtimes, going out for walks and barking at the birds, and talking to us at mealtimes. When he didn't bark at the birds and didn't carry his toy around at dinner, we *knew* we were facing the end. Our very kind vet told us that it was kidney failure and that our boy was in pain; he gently suggested it was time and we agreed.

 

I visited Zagreb on business a few years ago; very beautiful city in a lovely country. Best of luck with your baby.

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Guest houndgirl

What long term medications is she on for the bronchitis? How does she respond to steroids? It comes down to whether there are any meds that help her, or any other reasonable options you can try, combined with what her quality of life is.

 

I thought it might be helpful to include a link to your previous thread:

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/298618-chronic-respiratory-problem-any-advice/

 

Thanks!

 

Her consistant medications are: theophylline, and an herbal cough medication. Plus immune builder and daily vitamin. Other than that, she has been on a pretty regular 6 weeks on-2 weeks off antibiotic diet. We have only done steroid injections on very serious occasions. At first, she was able to handle them fine, but something about her tolerance or perhaps the brand changed and she gets shaky and very upset for several days. As a result, I avoid them unless its an emergency.

 

I spoke to our new vet about a daily antihistamine, but she seriously advised against it. She said in her experience dogs don't tend to tolerate them very well and she has very few kinds available in Croatia for us to try. I will keep pushing to give it a chance, but with a new vet in a new country there is a lot to adjust to.

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Dogs tolerate daily antihistamines just fine, so I'd have to disagree with your vet there, though I have no idea what's available in Croatia.

Edited by turbotaina


Meredith with Heyokha (HUS Me Teddy) and Crow (Mike Milbury). Missing Turbo (Sendahl Boss), Pancho, JoJo, and "Fat Stacks" Juana, the psycho kitty. Canku wakan kin manipi.

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Young Living sells globally (usually through distributors or ebay), and has an oil blend called R.C., which is wonderful on respiratory issues for people and animals (Dr. Melissa Shelton, DVM, includes this in her top oils for treatment of all animals). Hopefully this is accessible for you.

 

I had to order my Manuka Honey (with high enough strength) directly from New Zealand ... shipping expense was AWFUL, but worth the expense.

 

Back to your original question, though ... you may already have your beautiful girl's response to your question. Listen to your heart.

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I'm so sorry. :(

 

You try all you can try. When you can't get any relief, then you have to start making decisions. I just let my girl go on Sunday. I will tell you it was clear in her eyes it was time. Even my teenage son noticed it.

 

We will keep you in our prayers.

The Girls

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I spoke to our new vet about a daily antihistamine, but she seriously advised against it. She said in her experience dogs don't tend to tolerate them very well and she has very few kinds available in Croatia for us to try. I will keep pushing to give it a chance, but with a new vet in a new country there is a lot to adjust to.

 

Can you find out what antihistamines are available in Croatia? We use a lot of different antihistamines here in the U.S. and most dogs tolerate them very well on a daily, long term basis. Some of the common over-the-counter antihistamines commonly used in dogs here are: diphenhydramine (Benedryl), chlorpheniramine (Chlor-Trimeton, Chlor-tabs), cetirizine (Zyrtec), clemastine (Tavist), and loratadine (Claritin). Hydroxyzine is also a good option for some, although it's a prescription product.

 

Have you tried oral steroids? Using steroid pills allows you to customize the dose to get a good response with fewer side effects than injections. When treating dogs with chronic, allergic bronchitis, I've found steroids, like prednisone, to be a lot more effective than antihistamines. Especially if euthanasia is the alternative, I wouldn't hesitate to put a dog on long term oral steroids if it provides relief from the clinical signs.

Jennifer &

Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On),

Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice

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Guest houndgirl

Thanks again everyone for your advice. I will bring the list of allergy medications to the pharmacy to see what is available over the counter and look up the dosage charts online. I guess I will go ahead with this method, despite the vets advice. If this doesn't help, I will introduce questions about oral steroids and hopefully the vet will have a better reaction.

 

I am a little hesitant to medicate her, even with allergy medication, without the support of a veterinarian. But considering her circumstances, I really want to know that we are exhausting all possibilities.

 

The Manuka honey I have found here is only 15 strength, not the recommended 30. Also, I read more about it and the brand they sell here is not represented on the list of "real" Manuka honey brands.

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