What Happened? Any Insights Welcome

[brianamac]

Sorry in advance for the length of this.

This morning I was sitting in bed, checking my email, and Boo was laying in bed with me like he always does.

He had been dozing a bit and switching positions and was laying forward on his legs at the time. Sometimes his legs twitch while he is in a deep sleep, but he is always laying on his side when this happens.

His back left leg suddenly started kicking, and at first I thought maybe he was dreaming. But then his leg started kicking quite violently, much more than I have ever seen him do. I leaned around to look at his face and his eyes were open but he was just staring ahead, his head was up a bit (not resting on his legs). I said his name a couple of times but he didn't acknowledge me and the kicking continued.

Then it stopped. He turned and looked down and he (and I) realized he had lost control of his bladder. I got up and called him off the bed to go outside, but he didn't want to get up. I tried a few times but wondered if he was nervous about getting in trouble for peeing in the house, so I sat down and petted him and talked to him for a few minutes and then called him outside and he got up and went.

He doesn't really ever have accidents in the house. He seems to be walking and acting fine now, although he has been sleeping on the couch since it happened and didn't go for his usual run in the yard when he went out this morning.

He had a full blood panel done 2 weeks ago, mostly normal. Thyroid low (even for a grey, said the vet), but TSH came back normal. Cortisol test normal. Urinalysis and physical exam normal. Only issue was hookworms, which we are currently treating.

 

Does anybody have any insights into what might have happened?

[Charlies_Dad]

Seizure is my first guess. I don't have much experience with them thankfully.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Charlies_Dad

[brianamac]

Hopefully some seizure people may respond. I'm wondering if this is worth another vet visit or if we should just monitor him closely for another?

 

I should have also mentioned that he is 2.5 years old.

[HoundHeavenAZ]

Sounds like a seizure to me as well and I'd be contacting my vet. If it was, they are usually very disoriented after an event and often fearful. I always avoid touching them until they appear calm and able to recognize me. I might speak quietly to them and try to prevent them from injuring themselves, but I avoid touching them.

Best wishes for a positive outcome for you both. I know how scary this can be.

[mom2four]

It was probably a seizure. Our Lab had them too and she would loose bladder and bowel control. Hers were infrequent and luckily controlable with Chinese Medicines. After she started these she never had another seizure.

 

Which Vet do you use?

[brianamac]

It was probably a seizure. Our Lab had them too and she would loose bladder and bowel control. Hers were infrequent and luckily controlable with Chinese Medicines. After she started these she never had another seizure.

 

Which Vet do you use?

 

We see Dr. Dan Schlesinger at Landing Animal Clinic. I just called and talked to them and they said it sounded like a seizure. A different vet reviewed his blood results over the phone and said he did have one liver value that came back high, but she wasn't sure if that was a normal greyhound result. I'll probably phone and talk to Dr. Schlesinger again in the morning and get his opinion.

 

Thanks for the responses all.

Edited April 15, 2013 by brianamac

[mom2four]

OK I know about the clinic and the vet- good ones.

 

Usually they will not treat until the seizures are more frequent. If you are interested in Chinese herbs I can let you know of the local expert here.

 

Good luck. Hopefully it was an isolated incident.

[JohnF]

Angel, my last one used to do that. She had CRF for 18 months and it was random seizure activity in her old age. Discuss with your vet if it is upsetting the routine and/or worrying the dog.

 

I used to put Kylie bed protectors on my bed in the palce she liked to lay.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Washable-Bed-Protector-Pad-Tucks/dp/B008645BP6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366057679&sr=8-1&keywords=kylie+bed+protector

 

[Guest Gemma]

I agree that it sounds like a seizure. Peyton has them so rarely that we don't medicate. The reluctance to move is normal, IME, but sometimes getting them to walk around helps them come out of the foggy state after the event. It's also normal for him to be tired afterward.

[TheFullHouse]

Sounds exactly like a seizure. When he got up, was he a bit unsteady on his feet. Did he seem confused, was he panting and did he feel warm to the touch?

 

He is right in the age range for idiopathic epilepsy. I'd at least talk to the vet and let them know that he had a seizure. Saint had seizures like that. His head would tilt upward like that and he had severe muscle spasms.

Edited April 15, 2013 by JillysFullHouse

[RaineysMom]

seizure :( they suck. Most doctors don't or won't start meds until they have at least 3 within like a month, or if they cluster (more than 1 within 24 hours, which can get bad very fast).

 

sending hugs. Most seizures are controlled pretty well once the right combo of meds are found. Our 10 YO Rainey had them but in her case, with her age, it was a brain issue (which it is with ALL epilepsy, but with her it was being caused by either a tumor or atropying because of the age) and as her condition got worse, so did she. No chance of a recovery (or maintenance) with her.

Edited April 15, 2013 by RaineysMom

[gryhnd_adoptee]

Did he by chance recently have innoculations? My Lulu had a seizure out of the blue one day, and I had her at the vet within a couple hours for a blood draw. It showed her liver ALT was very high. She had just been to the vet two weeks prior and had her distemper/rabies shot, and while the vet will not say they are related, I suspect they were. Ever since then, I have always done titers.

 

Was the innoculation truly related to the seizures, nobody knows for sure. An elevated ALT level means the liver is responding to a toxic event in the body which would have certainly made sense on the heels of her shot. The further in time we got away from the innoculation, the farther apart her seizures became.

[kolarik1]

OK I know about the clinic and the vet- good ones.

 

Usually they will not treat until the seizures are more frequent. If you are interested in Chinese herbs I can let you know of the local expert here.

 

Good luck. Hopefully it was an isolated incident.

 

I am curious about the Chinese meds as Zelda has seizures...I haven't seen one in probably 3 weeks, but she could be having them when I'm gone...she's on meds currently.

[cometdust1]

Low thyroid can cause seizures.It happened to one of my greys.Once he was put on thyroid meds he was much better and the few and far between he had were very mild.

[greysmom]

Probably a seizure. Losing bladder control is very common. Make a note of the date and time, and any other pertinent info - any shots recently, any flea/tick/worm treatments, any commercial spraying in your area, did he eat normally before/after, did he sleep normally the night before. Keep a log of any further seizure activity. He may never have another one, or he could escalate at some point in his life. Medication is usually not indicated unless the seizures come closer together than 10-12 weeks, or in clusters.

 

If he seems weak and disoriented, try feeding him some ice cream right after or letting him drink juice. Seizures can cause low blood sugar and accompanying weakness and dizziness.

 

Seizures can be lived with and lived with a good quality of life. Medications have come very far in the last few years.

[a_daerr]

Seizure. My guy has idiopathic epilepsy. His seizures started at about age 3. I know way more than I want to know about seizures.

 

Here's the run down. Seizures can be caused by a few different things. They can be partial (absent) where they only affect one part of the body, or they can be grand mal, where the entire body is affected. What you described sounds typical of a grand mal seizure. In seizure dogs, you'll see kicking of the legs, voiding the bowels or bladder, disorientation, foaming of the mouth, an unfocused gaze, etc. The duration varies, but the actual seizing may last anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes. In the last stage of the seizure, it's also quite common for the dog to appear "out of it" for awhile. They may pant and appear confused. During "cluster seizures," the dog may repeatedly have seizures one after the other.

 

Because your guy is still fairly young, it's likely that his seizures are idiopathic (meaning, there is a blip in his brain that causes them randomly) as opposed to things like cancer, brain tumors, encephalitis, etc. Seizures can also be caused by medications, environmental stimuli, food, and situational stress, so it's a good idea to document when and where your dog's seizures occurred, how long after he ate, how long it lasted, if he took flea/tick/heartworm preventative that day, etc. Sometimes you can find patterns that way. As far as your vet goes, your first step is to get bloodwork done. It's a good idea to do a CBC (complete blood count) including a full thyroid panel and a Tick Borne Disease panel. Although it's not as common as epilepsy, sometimes thyroid conditions or TBDs like Ehrlychia can cause seizures. Don't be surprised if the tests come back 100% normal and your vet sends you home without any medication. There's not much treatment information the vet can give if this is his first seizure and isn't experiencing other symptoms.

 

If nothing seems out of the ordinary on that end, then it's largely a waiting game. Because many seizure meds have side effects, vets will generally hold off medicating unless the seizures start occurring on a fairly regular basis, usually more than once a month. If the seizures increase and you think it's time to medicate, I highly recommend doing a consult with a veterinary neurologist to talk about medications. BE VERY CAREFUL, as many vets without much seizure experience will put a dog on Phenobarbital as a blanket solution. The side effects of Pheno can be worse than the seizures themselves. These can include liver damage, sedation, wobbliness, digestive problems, etc. If you have to medicate, Pheno is the most "tried and true" drug. However, there are other options besides Pheno, and the neurologist should be able to tell you which one is most appropriate for your dog. We chose a newer drug called Zonisamide, and Henry has been seizure free since December with very minimal side effects.

 

Like I said, some dogs don't require medication right away, if at all. Your dog may continue to have seizures regularly, or he may never have one again. Henry went a good two years before medication became necessary. In that time, his seizures were 6-7 months apart. Having a seizure dog isn't the end of the world. There are some precautions that you should take if you share a home with other dogs, if you go to dog parks, if you board your dog, etc. But otherwise, they are quite capable of leading very normal lives without many problems. There are also several online support groups and websites that are excellent sources of information.

 

If you have questions or want to talk, feel free to email me. Good luck with your boy alicia dot daerr at gmail dot com

Edited April 15, 2013 by a_daerr

[brianamac]

Seizure. My guy has idiopathic epilepsy. His seizures started at about age 3. I know way more than I want to know about seizures.

 

Here's the run down. Seizures can be caused by a few different things. They can be partial (absent) where they only affect one part of the body, or they can be grand mal, where the entire body is affected. What you described sounds typical of a grand mal seizure. In seizure dogs, you'll see kicking of the legs, voiding the bowels or bladder, disorientation, foaming of the mouth, an unfocused gaze, etc. The duration varies, but the actual seizing may last anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes. In the last stage of the seizure, it's also quite common for the dog to appear "out of it" for awhile. They may pant and appear confused. During "cluster seizures," the dog may repeatedly have seizures one after the other.

 

Because your guy is still fairly young, it's likely that his seizures are idiopathic (meaning, there is a blip in his brain that causes them randomly) as opposed to things like cancer, brain tumors, encephalitis, etc. Seizures can also be caused by medications, environmental stimuli, food, and situational stress, so it's a good idea to document when and where your dog's seizures occurred, how long after he ate, how long it lasted, if he took flea/tick/heartworm preventative that day, etc. Sometimes you can find patterns that way. As far as your vet goes, your first step is to get bloodwork done. It's a good idea to do a CBC (complete blood count) including a full thyroid panel and a Tick Borne Disease panel. Although it's not as common as epilepsy, sometimes thyroid conditions or TBDs like Ehrlychia can cause seizures. Don't be surprised if the tests come back 100% normal and your vet sends you home without any medication. There's not much treatment information the vet can give if this is his first seizure and isn't experiencing other symptoms.

 

If nothing seems out of the ordinary on that end, then it's largely a waiting game. Because many seizure meds have side effects, vets will generally hold off medicating unless the seizures start occurring on a fairly regular basis, usually more than once a month. If the seizures increase and you think it's time to medicate, I highly recommend doing a consult with a veterinary neurologist to talk about medications. BE VERY CAREFUL, as many vets without much seizure experience will put a dog on Phenobarbital as a blanket solution. The side effects of Pheno can be worse than the seizures themselves. These can include liver damage, sedation, wobbliness, digestive problems, etc. If you have to medicate, Pheno is the most "tried and true" drug. However, there are other options besides Pheno, and the neurologist should be able to tell you which one is most appropriate for your dog. We chose a newer drug called Zonisamide, and Henry has been seizure free since December with very minimal side effects.

 

Like I said, some dogs don't require medication right away, if at all. Your dog may continue to have seizures regularly, or he may never have one again. Henry went a good two years before medication became necessary. In that time, his seizures were 6-7 months apart. Having a seizure dog isn't the end of the world. There are some precautions that you should take if you share a home with other dogs, if you go to dog parks, if you board your dog, etc. But otherwise, they are quite capable of leading very normal lives without many problems. There are also several online support groups and websites that are excellent sources of information.

 

If you have questions or want to talk, feel free to email me. Good luck with your boy alicia dot daerr at gmail dot com

Bible of information right there Alicia! I will definitely contact you with any questions I have if it starts happening at any frequency.

 

 

Thanks for all the responses and great advice, guys. We have started a log with all of the details, and hopefully we never have to use it again.

Glad we know what went on now, the scariest part was not knowing what had happened to Boo during that time.

 

Since I have never yet posted a picture of him on greytalk, now is probably the time-- cuddling with his main lady, Karmen.

http://

Edited April 16, 2013 by brianamac

[a_daerr]

Oh goodness, he's a handsome guy. Those ears!! And that smile!!