Guest daniellering Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi, I've had my grey Chelsea for 2 months, and she is having constant diarrhea (some days mudpie, others full out liquid squirts). I've closely followed the recommendations of my vet and adoption representative, but nothing traditional is working. I've done the chicken and rice, pumpkin, yogurt. I used to feed a high quality kibble, but switched to Purina Dog Chow on my adoption rep's advice to firm things up for a while (which it did at first, but now we're back to squirts). She only gets the kibble, and I'm sure she is not eating anything else. Flagyl has not worked, nor has FortiFlora. Nothing on the fecal. The only think I can think of is the other items she's ingesting--Biotene water additive for her teeth, and pet toothpaste (CET and Petrodex) every day. Both have glycerine and sorbitol as the first ingredients, and both are also used as laxatives (which I found out yesterday after desperately researching every lead I could think of). I haven't found anyone else talking about this in regards to dogs, but there is a lot of information about the problems it causes people. Anyone on here have similar issues? Obviously, I'll stop giving her both products and see. But I hate to let her teeth go. Anyone have a rec for a toothpaste that doesn't list sorbitol as an ingredient? Thanks so much, Danielle and Chelsea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniellering Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi, I've had my grey Chelsea for 2 months, and she is having constant diarrhea (some days mudpie, others full out liquid squirts). I've closely followed the recommendations of my vet and adoption representative, but nothing traditional is working. I've done the chicken and rice, pumpkin, yogurt. I used to feed a high quality kibble, but switched to Purina Dog Chow on my adoption rep's advice to firm things up for a while (which it did at first, but now we're back to squirts). She only gets the kibble, and I'm sure she is not eating anything else. Flagyl has not worked, nor has FortiFlora. Nothing on the fecal. The only think I can think of is the other items she's ingesting--Biotene water additive for her teeth, and pet toothpaste (CET and Petrodex) every day. Both have glycerine and sorbitol as the first ingredients, and both are also used as laxatives (which I found out yesterday after desperately researching every lead I could think of). I haven't found anyone else talking about this in regards to dogs, but there is a lot of information about the problems it causes people. Anyone on here have similar issues? Obviously, I'll stop giving her both products and see. But I hate to let her teeth go. Anyone have a rec for a toothpaste that doesn't list sorbitol as an ingredient? Thanks so much, Danielle and Chelsea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cristar Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 The Petzlife gel doesn't have sorbital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racindog Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 When I got my first greyt Ivy (Dream Irish) she had poor loose stools for months-I would say it was probably ~5 months-vet couldn't fix it either-then it suddenly went away and NEVER returned-so theres hope. After reading a lot of posts on here I would be darn sure she didn't have hookworms or some other. I guess sorbitol could cause it but I honestly would suspect the biotene more because I'm just naturally suspicious of putting any "chemicals" in their systems? I have used those very 2 toothpastes on several houndies over several years and never had a problem. Now, though, I honestly have to admit I don't brush them anymore-I just spray them a couple days a week with Pets-Life and they stay in just as good if not better shape. The stuff is remarkable. Hang in there. You've just got to discover what works best for your girl and sometimes all you have is trail and error to figure it out which does take awhile but it'll get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrskasMom Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 First of all , Hello and Welcome Danielle and Chelsea. Did Vet approve of Biotene ? Why don't you leave off for a while the Biotene and the Toothpaste just to see if Things are firming up . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time4ANap Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 The only way to figure it out is to eliminate the extras for a while, and when she is no longer having problems, bring back things one by one, a few weeks apart. Food is strictly trial and error. Every dog is different. Many people have success with the Iams Green Bag for diarrhea. Others find that it doesn't work for them. Since your hound has had the issue for a while, I would feed some boiled chicken with over-cooked rice or pasta for a few days to let the stomach settle, then slowly introduce the food only. No extras, no add-ons, no treats and see how it goes. Additionally, I would check with your vet about some Metronidazole to help with the diarrhea since it has gone on this long. You only need that for a week or two normally to help heal the stomach. Since your hound is relatively new, do not rule out worms or a parasite. Sometimes the simple fixes are the ones we overlook. Hounds recently brought off the track can have recurring worms for a while, even though they are de-wormed initially. Ask your vet about doing another round of Panacur simply as a starting point and to help rule out more worms. Panacur will not hurt and often will help this issue along with the metronidazole. Good luck! Quote Camp Broodie. The current home of Mark Kay Mark Jack and Gracie Kiowa Safe Joan. Always missing my boy Rocket Hi Noon Rocket, Allie Phoenix Dynamite, Kate Miss Kate, Starz Under Da Starz, Petunia MW Neptunia, Diva Astar Dashindiva, and LaVida I've Got Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytpups Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 When I read "sorbitol" a lightbuld went off. This is from wikipedia. I never eat anything with sorbitol in it but I'm not sure if this applies to dogs. Laxative Sorbitol can be used as a non-stimulant laxative via an oral suspension or enema. As with other sugar alcohols, gastrointestinal distress may result when food products that contain sorbitol are consumed. Sorbitol exerts its laxative effect by drawing water into the large intestine, thereby stimulating bowel movements.[3] Sorbitol has been determined safe for use by the elderly, although it is not recommended without consultation with a clinician.[4] Sorbitol is found in some dried fruits and may contribute to the laxative effects of prunes.[5] Quote Jan with precious pups Emmy (Stormin J Flag) and Simon (Nitro Si) and Abbey Field. Missing my angels: Bailey Buffetbobleclair 11/11/98-17/12/09; Ben Task Rapid Wave 5/5/02-2/11/15; Brooke Glo's Destroyer 7/09/06-21/06/16 and Katie Crazykatiebug 12/11/06 -21/08/21. My blog about grief The reality is that you will grieve forever. You will not get over the loss of a loved one; you will learn to live with it. You will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again but you will never be the same. Nor should you be the same, nor would you want to. ― Elisabeth Kübler-Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfish Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Yes, sorbitol is a laxative. Gentle, but yes, it is. If your dog drinks a lot of water, I'm sure it will have an effect! Quote The plural of anecdote is not dataBrambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greymatters Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Since your hound is relatively new, do not rule out worms or a parasite. Sometimes the simple fixes are the ones we overlook. Hounds recently brought off the track can have recurring worms for a while, even though they are de-wormed initially. Ask your vet about doing another round of Panacur simply as a starting point and to help rule out more worms. Panacur will not hurt and often will help this issue along with the metronidazole. I would definitely start with another round of Panacur (together with the metronidazole/flagyl) and a bland diet for a few days. Some types of parasites are notorious for not showing up on fecals - we had three negative ones before the one that ultimately showed our poor boy to be loaded with hookworms. Quote Merlin (Heathers Wizard), Mina (Where's Rebecca), and Mae the Galga - three crazy dogs in the house of M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hmmm, I'm not sure about Sorbitol, but I use a water additive called Dental Fresh. It's made with chlorine dioxide, sodium benzoate, and chlorophyll. No stomach issues here. I also do knuckle bones and rawhide rolls a few times a week for dental health. Both of my guys have white, healthy, teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeniseL Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Have you tried Tylan powder? It is the only thing that cleared up Miami's soft stool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrskasMom Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Looking for an Update on Chelsea ?? How is she doing ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambuca Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I don't know about my dogs, but sorbitol and all artificial sweeteners make me sick. 1 piece of sugar free gum and I'm out of commission for hours or even days. Upset stomach, naseau headaches, the works. I wouldn't be surprised if it's doing this. Another suggestion, have you tried eliminating chicken from her diet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieProf Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Yep, all sugar alcohols are totally known to produce D in humans if you eat enough. Would be easy and obvious to eliminate the Biotene for a week or so and see what difference it makes. Quote With Cocoa (DC Chocolatedrop), missing B for Beth (2006-2015)And kitties C.J., Klara, Bernadette, John-Boy, & Sinbad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniellering Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hi all, my apologies for not responding sooner. I thought I'd get emails to let me know people responded. Just thought I'd check on the forum one more time, and am so glad to see everyone willing to help! I cut out the biotene (vet did initially say it was ok to use) and stopped brushing a week ago. Nothing seemed to change much. Vet gave me drontal ( she had tapes before, but just curious...why panacur?). It seemed to help for a few days, but diarrhea started again (the really bad stuff!) so last step now I'm giving her a round of both flagyl and baytril. She did not respond to just flagyl initially. Just started that this morning, so we'll see how it goes. Next step the vet mentioned is I believe a nutrient absorption panel. Not sure what that is exactly. But I am worried about her. Her energy level is ok, though she's underweight. Also, her appetite has decreased slightly, which is a real shock. She badgered me like crazy several times a day to feed her previously. Will keep you posted re progress. Thanks again everyone! Danielle and Chelsea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniellering Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Oh yeah, someone else recommended tylan. Is that the stuff that tastes horrible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeniseL Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Oh yeah, someone else recommended tylan. Is that the stuff that tastes horrible? Supposedly it tastes very bitter, but Miami had no problem at all eating it. He acted like it wasn't even on his food. It was the only thing to firm him up and we tried flagyl multiple times, different kibble, prescription food, dewormer, etc. I hear you can put the tylan in capsules if they won't eat it. Might be worth a shot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Your vet sounds like he's/ she's going to test for pancreatic insufficiency (TLI). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 My friend went through this for months with her greyhound. The diarrhea did not stop until he had a round of sulfasalazine (he didn't tolerate Flagyl) and switched to Iams green bag. She gradually introduced him to Nutro but still mixes in Iams. My advice is to try those things, or a prescription food like Hills I/D before doing all kinds of unneccessary testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RMarie Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 My friend went through this for months with her greyhound. The diarrhea did not stop until he had a round of sulfasalazine (he didn't tolerate Flagyl) and switched to Iams green bag. She gradually introduced him to Nutro but still mixes in Iams. My advice is to try those things, or a prescription food like Hills I/D before doing all kinds of unneccessary testing. Alicia is talking about me. Other than potential worms, it sounds like Chelsea's gut is very inflamed so everything you give her is going straight through her. Until you calm the gut, you won't be able to do any food elimination to figure out what will work best. I would definitely inquire about some meds to help get rid of the inflammation. For us, as Alicia stated, it was sulfasalazine, with boiled chicken and rice. We saw improvement overnight! We took that opportunity to switch to Iams green bag, which so many people swear by. James did ok on it, definitely no diarrhea, but we eventually incorporated Nutro Venison and Brown Rice (for sensitive stomaches and skin). We are happy and have been free of the big D for several months. Good luck! Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Alicia is talking about me. Other than potential worms, it sounds like Chelsea's gut is very inflamed so everything you give her is going straight through her. Until you calm the gut, you won't be able to do any food elimination to figure out what will work best. I would definitely inquire about some meds to help get rid of the inflammation. For us, as Alicia stated, it was sulfasalazine, with boiled chicken and rice. We saw improvement overnight! We took that opportunity to switch to Iams green bag, which so many people swear by. James did ok on it, definitely no diarrhea, but we eventually incorporated Nutro Venison and Brown Rice (for sensitive stomaches and skin). We are happy and have been free of the big D for several months. Good luck! Keep us posted. Rachel, you are the Big D expert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daniellering Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Thank you so much for the advice. I will ask my vet about Tylan, and about the sulfasalazine/Iams. So far, the Baytril and flagyl helped her a little on the first day, but we're back to runny poo. So frustrating! It seems like when I make a small change, things improve slightly, but only for a short time. Will keep you posted. Thanks again! Danielle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RMarie Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 How's Chelsea doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OPointyDog Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'm in the middle of similar problems with our guy, Mika, which I detailed in the thread on bland food. Have you tried a really bland, simple diet? With Mika, we tried a bunch of different kinds of food - including novel proteins, grain free, green bag Iams, limited ingredent... What has FINALLY helped is going to a diet of boiled hamburger and rice. I've gradually been incorporating some baby food (beef) and cottage cheese in with the beef and rice, and I'm still giving him Fortiflora. He just finished a 10-day course of Flagyl, and we also did 5 days of panacur (just in case). He's been on hamburger and rice for a week, and while there's some variation, mostly his poop is actually dark colored and formed, which is a huge improvement over the yellow runny stuff from before. Mika did have the pancreatic panel done, and all was normal except his B12, which was low. Right now we think the constant diarrhea is probably a food intolerance, so I'm hoping to find a food he can live with and that the B12 will recover as he regains normal intestinal function. His weight and appetite are both good so far - he eats like a lab! He will eat anything at any time. Hope Chelsea is feeling better. I know how frustrating this can be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Is this vet used to dealing with greyhounds? Many take 5 days of panacur to get rid of the bugs. Not sure why you were given baytril? Try boiled meat only for a few meals and see if she clears up. If she does you know it's the food, if she doesn't she needs panaucr. Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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