Newbie Owner And A Hard Lesson Learned

[deboosh]

This post is for every new or soon-to-be-new greyhound owner. Being one myself, I feel obliged to share our experience. It just might save another houndie and you, his owner, from having to learn a very hard and expensive lesson.

My only reason for sharing this, is so that it will serve as a caution, and to maybe even prevent a tragedy from happening. I apologize for its length. (I'm not proficient with my edits.)

Our girl came up on a hauler just before Christmas, straight from Daytona's track, and into the home of our adoption co-ordinator. After a 4-day assessment, her low prey status was confirmed, and she tested as cat-safe. Fast forward the conversation to our questions about dog parks. We were advised to be careful and aware of our surroundings, but to relax and have fun as well. Moderate in warning but not negative, she personally frequents a select few of them, herself.

At first, dh & I were afraid. We took Bonnie to one very large and expansive dog park, and stood there like sticks, very nervous and very stiff. She barked at every one and every thing, until one observant young woman offered her assistance, and managed to calm all three of us. So we started taking Bonnie to our local dog park, where she began to have fun, and exhibit good doggy manners, as both sniffer, and sniffee. People were always commenting, what a friendly and social dog she was. We were thrilled and very happy that she seemed to be doing so well.

Then I started to notice that whenever there was rough play, or a burst of exuberance from other dogs, Bonnie would be there in a flash, barking off her fool head. There were times though, when her bark just didn't cut it, and she'd push an offender to the ground. At first, I found this concerning, and was quite taken aback. But it was explained to me by an owner, on more than one occasion, that there was no need for alarm. Their dog deserved her scolding, as this was the way they restore order. I naively, accepted this "good cop" attribute of hers, feeling somewhat proud of her attempt to maintain the peace.

Prior to the "incident" I would have bet my life that Bonnie loved, and was safe around, tiny little dogs. Her reason for living is chasing the fluffball as he chases his tennis ball. It was her bliss. Never would she overtake or cause a tumble, and she'd end the pursuit if he suddenly stopped. I questioned whether my dog was a slave to her 4000 year old instincts or not. I told myself she was simply playing, and her low-prey status was my proof.

It was three weeks ago, maybe two houses away from our own, at the beginning of our routine morning walk. A very small, white, teacup-type approached from the opposite direction. Both dogs strained their leash in greeting. Tails were wagging. One face sniffed the other. Then Bonnie pounced. No growling, teeth baring, or quiet, stealthy stance. No sign or warning; just a quick and precise strike. As I pulled her back, she reared up with this poor little thing wedged between both paws, and bit him mercilessly. Had he not been wearing his winter coat, he would have been disemboweled; I've no doubt.

There I was, preoccupied and concerned about the dog park, when I should have been just as wary of the innocuous neighbourhood walk. Why did she do this? The little guy certainly wasn't exhibiting any sort of excitement. No jumping or fast jerky movements; the familiar kind that precipitated her dog park scoldings. Was it instinct? Does she not trust me as her alpha? I was in shock~~maybe still am. Did she simply not like the other dog? Could he have been intact? Was testosterone still coursing through her own system? I'd been told the girls are given male hormones to prevent them from going into heat at the track; can we blame hormones on this? (Do they really pump them full of that stuff anyway?) Or could it be that my dog just isn't tiny-white-dog safe? I know the dynamics change on-leash; could this have been the reason?

I could ask a gazillion questions, but really, it doesn't matter, because I don't intend to place my dog in a position where she could do this again; because quite frankly, I don't want to think about my moral compass, and have to do what I'd dread doing, should stupidity repeat itself. So, although this did not happen at the big, bad dog park, we still won't be frequenting any. I shudder when I think this could have occurred there~~while I'm 50 feet or more away; where I have no leash, no control, and couldn't possibly run, never mind with anything resembling speed.

And the bottom line? I must face up to the fact that I do not know my dog. Simple as that. It's just way too soon to predict her behaviour. I'm fairly certain that it was this very forum where I'd read that during their first year with us, our greys go through a myriad of changes in their new quest as loving family pets. The dog who crosses our threshold on his Gotcha Day is temperamentally unrecognizable, one year later. Like living on Mars and moving to Earth, is how their transition was explained to me. Should this be true, it means that my girl is not predictable. Being unpredictable has a lot in common with liability.

As new grey owners, we are bound to make some mistakes and go through the growing pains as both human and animal acclimate to the new family dynamic. But our new family member has powerful claws and a mouthful of sharp teeth. Greyhound ownership also means we are responsible for educating ourselves, knowing our limitations, and taking every precaution necessary to ensure that the risks we take are minimal.

I read what was recommended, and more. I thought I had at least learned the necessary basics. I lurked this forum for months before finally joining, and STILL, I managed to fail my girl. And I failed the little dog she attacked, because I trusted my dog, who I don't really know, and was too green in my awareness to realize it! Dangerous combination, ignorance and braun. I placed my Bonnie in a position of losing her future had she killed that little dog.

"Humbled" is too mild a word for how I've been feeling. For the foreseeable future, it's greyhound runs only, where every dog is muzzled. On our neighbourhood walks, we cross the street when another dog appears in the distance, or we muzzle her right from the get-go, should our walk include passing by the house with that yappy little white shih-tzu.

I think it's important to state the very hard lesson that was learned again:

I'm a new owner, with a dog I do not know.

Scary stuff.

Take heed, my fellow newbies.

Please be safe.

(((Hugs)))

[kolarik1]

Trust me, sometimes even a couple years later you go 'is that my dog?' My male had zero prey drive, but he took a dislike to ferrets! My b/f had one a couple years ago and even with a muzzle on, he would try to slam his head into the ferret...but then again, the ferret used to burrow underneath his dog bed.

 

Sometimes it's best to be cautious, but you don't want to be anxious and have your pup pick up on that. Just try to think ahead when walking and possibly keep her muzzle with you so you can slip it on before she meets new dogs...that way she'll get the hint that she's not supposed to do that and other dogs will be safer (she can still get their ear, etc, just not a full on bite). I've taken muzzles with me when walking fosters that I was unsure of how they'd react to other dogs.

Edited March 3, 2013 by kolarik1

[Guest PaulEmandStan]

They've been bred (and in the case of retired racers, trained from birth) to chase and hunt small, furry things. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. We had to stop ours from attacking a small pug, it was a very hairy moment and luckily no harm was done, since then we've always put the muzzle on him when he's off the lead, better to be safe than sorry.

Edited March 3, 2013 by PaulEmandStan

[Brandiandwe]

A brave post. Neither of mine are small dog safe, are never out without muzzles and never run with non-greys. I adore them both, trust them mostly but one is unpredictable around other dogs. The other has been described as 'opportunistic'. Both can and have struck with little or no warning.

 

It has taken me a long time to become comfortable with who my dogs are. I do feel, though, that I'm lucky that my dogs haven't hurt another dog. I shudder watching the laissez-faire attitude of some owners assuming all will be well.

 

Well done for writing the post. Hopefully others will read it.

[3greytjoys]

Thank you so much for sharing your story to help others learn from your unfortunate experience.

 

Yes, Greyhounds are hunting sighthounds. Outside = game on.

Even small animals standing still outside can be viewed as prey.

Deeply bred instinct has nothing to do with an owner being viewed as alpha. Humans can't change instinct.

 

You hit the nail on the head with this quote:

"I shudder when I think this could have occurred there~~while I'm 50 feet or more away; where I have no leash, no control, and couldn't possibly run, never mind with anything resembling speed."

 

I'll add that dog "pack mentality" is usually involved in a dog park attack; most dogs fly over to join in the attack. Imagine 10-25 dogs in a pile with teeth flying in every direction. Some GH adoption groups have strict rules against attending public off-leash dog parks. All breed dog fights happen too often in dog parks, not to mention incorporating thin-skinned sighthounds into the mix.

 

Thank goodness the little dog survived, and that Bonnie showed her interest when you were within arms reach of the situation. Thanks again for sharing.

[Guest IrskasMom]

Wowww, it was very riveting to read your Post. I personnaly stay away from Dogparks . I am so sorry it happen , now you know better.

[Charlies_Dad]

I'm sorry you experienced this as it can be very scary and something very similar happened to my wife and she lost part of finger (it was re-attached luckily) trying to remove a small white dog from one our boys mouth. Albeit our incident was slightly different, the furry white thing was not on a leash and should have been, it still traumatized her and to this day she avoids all dogs when we walk our Greys. As for dog parks, never ever should small dogs and large dogs be mixed in no matter the breed, too often the small dog pays with it's life. As others have also wrote, Greys are sighthounds and it's their instinct to chase and run down small creatures.

 

Your post should be read by all new owners, not to scare them, but to educate them and keep their pups safe.

[RedHead]

Sorry about your experience It really doesn't sound like your dog is aggressive (if he was truly aggressive he would have attacked other dogs at the dogpark) and it has nothing to do with you, it was simply a prey drive instinct that kicked in. It sounds like he reacts strongly to excitement, which is pretty normal for dogs new off the track, and I am guessing the small, white and fluffy combined with the fact that both dogs were overly excited in greeting, triggered a prey drive response. Definitely something people should be aware of as you said, it can happen in a split second and is pretty scary.

 

At the same time, I agree with Kolarik, you don't want to constantly be in an anxious and fearful state with him or avoid walking and other dogs completely. I would definitely avoid the dogpark but I am sure larger dogs and other greys would still be good friends for him (especially if all the dogs are muzzled).

Edited March 3, 2013 by RedHead

[Guest twoskinnydogs]

This story reminds me of my Emma. Even after having her 10 years and at 12.5 years old she would snatch up a small fuzzy anything.....under one condition, that she was OUTSIDE!! Inside the house she would live in harmony with a cat and small furry dog, but she could not be trusted with them outside. She never had any problems with other "larger" dogs and would attend our local dog park. Our dog park has a section that is for dogs over 50 lbs only I have read several books about this behavior and it boils down to two simple things: (1) Greyhounds are sighthounds and more importantly they are and have been for MANY years trained to chase and (2) They are dogs, and ALL dogs have a pack mentality and will participate in a pack fight reguardless of the breed. I have seen this sooo many times during turnouts, if the weakest dog goes down the whole pack goes after them. If your dog ever gets into a pack state of mind it will leave you wondering if it is really your hound you are looking at.....it is scary sometimes!!!

[Guest Jacks_Human]

What a scary experience!

Jack understands that wee furries are dogs, BUT I had one experience where he saw a bunch of dogs bullying a dog he had played with nicely before, and he joined in. (He was in his muzzle, so no damage done). I was super upset about his behaviour, but then again, dogs always have predatory and pack instincts lurking, even the ones which don't generally have a high prey drive.

Also, some dogs take an instant dislike to each other. There's a black pug on our street that LOATHES Jack, and if they meet, the pug's owner has to drag his snarling dog back from attacking Jack. No idea why.

[lotsoffreetime]

I am so sorry this happened to you. Thank you for taking the time to write it. It truly is amazing how we can be surprised by our dogs and how quickly their instincts can kick in. With our Rio, it showed in the vet's office for the first time...up until then, she was very low prey drive, lives with 3 cats and a small dog, never showed interest in small dogs on walks etc...but suddenly across from us in a vet's office a small white dogs on an owner's lap startd yipping, and Rio became an entirely different dog...tense, pulling on her leash, starting intently at the dog, and almost frothing at the mouth...we knew if she got the dog, it would be dead. DH had to take her outside, and she was still pulling to get back inside to get at the dog. He kept her outside until the white fluffy was gone (she was there as a support for our other pup, Tiana, for her first vet appointment, as she is a spook). Since then, we keep Rio away from little white fluffies, but without that experience, we never would have known she had such powerful instincts because she is such a paid-back girlie.

[Guest Gemma]

I just wanted to say that it has nothing to do with you being 'alpha' or not. As others have said, these dogs have been bred to chase and hunt. Some lose a lot of that instinct, others don't. Some are safe inside with small animals/dogs but all bets are off outside.

 

I think it's very brave of you to make this post. Many of us have been right where you are! Really, we all do our best, and that's all anyone can ask of us. Lesson learned.

[Guest Liz_in_PA]

I'm glad you wrote this. I'm sorry you wrote this.

 

Start practicing your hip check--shoving your Bonnie can interrupt things before they escalate. Remind yourself to NEVER go walking in sandals or flip flops in the summer. Yes, cross the road when necessary. Learn to wave at other dogs from across the street. And try to relax when you see those other dogs. Bonnie will pick up on it. Learn to dawdle behind a car while another dog passes on the other side of the street--what she can't see, she won't react to. In your head, practice the Voice of God yell. Surprisingly, it can work on your dog and the dogs of perfect strangers.

 

Did the little white fluffy (LWF) require medical care or just psychological care?

[Yamaha_gurl]

Could it be just that this little dog was simply too much in your dogs face? My Bella is not allowed within touching distance of a dog when she passes by, ON LEASH. Because she feels the need to lunge at the dog, yet she gets along great with all dogs at the dog park, when she is OFF Leash. It could not be just that it was a white fluffy, rather an annoying dog that invaded her space, and she was on leash and knew she couldn't get away.

[Feisty49]

It was a pleasure to read your post, though the content was disturbing. You write so well. Are you an author? While a pleasure to read, your distress was evident and you are very giving to share your experience.

 

My Annie is an easygoing, calm, loves people dog who also has a non-existent prey drive. Small dogs, cats, squirrels, etc., barely catch her attention, and she remains a bit afraid of my cat. Nonetheless, like you said, we never really know what's going on inside -- just like a person who does something horrible and everybody says, "I would never have believed it." That's one reason I don't generally do dog parks, though honestly it's mostly because I don't want to expose Annie to getting hurt, and it's the main reason that when we approach/are approached by another dog I immediately put Annie right next to my knee with no slack in the leash so she can't do anything unexpected. It also, hopefully, gives the other dog parent the idea to do the same (it doesn't usually work out that way).

 

It's not just Greyhounds, though, that need to be "watched." My respect for any dog to inflict harm, even an ankle biter, is high, and I never assume a dog is friendly no matter what the owner says, and therefore approach slowly and never reach out until the dog lets me know it's OK.

 

I've always wondered why, when most people muzzle their Greyhounds when with other Greys in an enclosed, outdoor play area, they don't muzzle when in an every-type-of dog play area. Of course it is a great disadvantage to a Greyhound, or any dog, to be muzzled when other dogs are not, which is probably why people don't muzzle at dog parks but -- and forgive me if I'm not understanding -- why muzzle with other Greys but at the same time allow a Greyhound into a dog park unmuzzled because no other dog is? I'm not pointing fingers. I'm not being critical. It's just something I've thought about.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Feisty49

[tuff]

Sometimes I am glad that all three of mine are far far far from small animal safe and chase other dogs way too aggressively (nipping and barking) to ever consider a dog park. I have no temptation. No matter how careful you are, bad stuff can happen. My neighbors little white fluffy left their yard and crossed the street where I was walking and started aggressively barking. Before I could even react Top picked it up and started shaking it like several of the squirrels he's caught and dispatched. Somehow I got him to drop it. It slunk away. Neighbor who saw the whole thing said not to worry, his dog needed to be taught not to run out of the yard. Because do this incident, I don't walk more than two at a time now.

[a_daerr]

Trust is a dangerous thing... One of my fosters was fine with cats 99% of the time. He would let them run by, swat at his tail, and share his bed. Being naive, I decided to stop muzzling him. Then, out of nowhere, he grabbed one of the cats and ended up killing her. This happened some time ago, but even now, I still feel a mess of emotions. I failed my kitty, and I also set my foster up for failure. As you said, it is difficult and confusing when your dog does something unpredictable. The best we can do is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

 

I'm glad you're not giving up on Bonnie. She's not a bad dog- she just couldn't fight her instincts this time.

[Guest Lefty]

Thank you so much for this post. I am so sorry for your experience, but I applaud your courage in writing about it.

 

We have two greyhounds. Our boy, Dothan, is a calm soul. Our girl, Joppa, gets extremely riled whenever she sees another dog. We got Joppa at the end of Nov 2012. My husband was walking them one day, when Joppa saw our neighbor with her assortment of dogs. Joppa went nuts, and in her frenzy, snapped, and got Dothan on the back. Poor Dothan needed stitches and a drain. We felt terrible that we failed them both. Knowing how Joppa is with other dogs, we NEVER should have had her out without a muzzle. Dothan paid the price for us HOPING that this time her behavior MIGHT be different. AND...because sometimes you have to learn a lesson more than once, I ran them both out really quickly without her muzzle when we were approached by our neighbor's dog who was off leash. Again, she went nuts, but this time, as I nudged her in a different direction, she snapped and got my thigh.

 

We do not walk without the muzzle anymore. I could feel myself getting tense and dreading the walks. They absolutely can sense that fear. I am much more confident when she is wearing her muzzle. Even though she still snaps and lunges, I am more in control. Needless to say, we will all be going to training. I need it more than they do. Thanks again for the post. It's nice not to feel like the only one who makes mistakes.

[beledi]

Wowww, it was very riveting to read your Post. I personnaly stay away from Dogparks . I am so sorry it happen , now you know better.

I am a dog trainer and I really do not recommend dog parks. Pack mentality is very dangerous.

[krissy]

Thanks for sharing. That must have been a hard thing to do.

 

While I think it is wise to always be vigilant and perhaps avoid small, hyper dogs... avoiding ALL other dogs is really not a solution. If you do that your girl's socialization will suffer immensely and under socialized dogs are dogs that have problems coping with social interactions. She very well may get MUCH, MUCH worse simply because she becomes unaccustomed to interacting with other dogs. And trust me, you cannot avoid all other dogs all of the time. Accidents happen. Someone could drop a leash and a dog comes running up to you. No problem, you have your dog muzzled. What if the other dog is aggressive and now your dog can't defend herself because she's muzzled?

 

I'm not saying you let her run willy nilly and walk face to face with a small fluffy. I am however suggesting that maybe some training classes might be a good idea. Summit is horribly aggressive towards huskies and almost no other dogs. However he has learned to look to me for guidance. I can safely have him off leash on the trail and call him back to me if I see a husky. I then ask him to watch me as we walk past the husky. But I'm always vigilant. If we DO go to a dog park or something like that I keep a close eye on the in-gate. If I see a husky coming I leash him up and return him to my vehicle.

[greytpups]

I agree, this was sad to read but very enlightening. You may save others from this type of situation. Sometimes we simply forget they are "dogs".

 

Here's how this is going to help me. There's a man in our neighbourhood who walks his dog (breed unknown but he's a large breed) but this dog lunges at every dog he/she sees. He always keeps lots of space but one thing he does not do is grab the dog when he's lunging at us, he just lets it keep pulling at the end of the leash. I always hope the leash doesn't break because if that dog gets loose, my greys are in serious danger.

 

Next time I see him, I'm going to talk to him about this and hopefully prevent an incident. If I hadn't read your story, I wouldn't be so motivated. I've thought about it, but this time I'm going to "do" it. I'm also going to suggest a behaviourist, but it's unlikely he's going to heed my advice.

 

Once again thanks for being so brave and sharing this.

[Guest happygrey]

Excellent post! I agree with all you wrote. We always err on the side of caution with our 3, none of which are cat safe and 2 are not safe with other dogs. One is touch and go with other greys besides our little pack. We don't do dog parks, don't do "greetings" and don't do unmonitored turnouts in yard. And still we've had our problems.

 

Better safe than sorry is the way to go, IMO.

[greysmom]

To answer the above question re: muzzling:

 

You don't muzzle a greyhound in a mixed breed dog park simply because all the other dogs are not muzzled. As you said, this puts the greyhound at a distinct disadvantage. It everyone in the dog park was required to use muzzles as a safety device (not as punishment, which they seem to be viewed as frequently in the States), it would be much easier to take your grey to play.

 

You CAN muzzle every dog in a greyhound-only play date, so it should be done for all the dogs' safety.

[Feisty49]

To answer the above question re: muzzling:

 

You don't muzzle a greyhound in a mixed breed dog park simply because all the other dogs are not muzzled. As you said, this puts the greyhound at a distinct disadvantage. It everyone in the dog park was required to use muzzles as a safety device (not as punishment, which they seem to be viewed as frequently in the States), it would be much easier to take your grey to play.

 

You CAN muzzle every dog in a greyhound-only play date, so it should be done for all the dogs' safety.

 

Yes, as you pointed out, that's what I said, and what I realize now, having re-read my post, is what I meant to question and ask -- without pointing fingers for personal choices -- why does anybody take their Greyhound to a dog park where dogs are not muzzled, i.e., a mixed-dog park. That's the reason I don't take Annie to dog parks with non-Greyhounds. I don't want to chance her being injured.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Feisty49

[Guest twoskinnydogs]

To answer the above question re: muzzling:

 

You don't muzzle a greyhound in a mixed breed dog park simply because all the other dogs are not muzzled. As you said, this puts the greyhound at a distinct disadvantage. It everyone in the dog park was required to use muzzles as a safety device (not as punishment, which they seem to be viewed as frequently in the States), it would be much easier to take your grey to play.

 

You CAN muzzle every dog in a greyhound-only play date, so it should be done for all the dogs' safety.

 

Please don't muzzle at a mix park. A greyhound here in NC was seriously injured because he was wearing a muzzle, he could not defend himself when a mix breed decided he didn't like the greyhound! I have learned when the dog park is usually empty and go in the mornings during the week (my job allows days off during the week) when everyone is at work. If a non greyhound shows up I take mine out....

 

If anyone wants to understand more of how a dogs mind works I suggest reading "The Dog's Mind". Great book and it covers dogs in general, including how a sighthound processes what is chases...... I think they are low priced on amazon, maybe even available for kindle and nook by now