Legs Has Dilated Cardiomyopathy

[RileysLegacy]

Thanks so much everyone! I ended up not going away this weekend so I started his meds this morning. He seems totally normal - but how can you really tell if a greyhound is drowsy I am really hoping this med helps bc he would really hate to wear the heart monitor vest for a whole week. It's way too hot here for that.

[Xan]

What a saga! And what a relief to have something to actually work with, I bet! I hope Legs tolerates the meds, and they DO THE JOB!!! Crossing fingers here in the frosty PNW.

 

(grumble too hot for a vest grumble!)

 

[RileysLegacy]

I forgot to mention something weird - the skin on his back legs is peeling off in huge chunks. Like if a human got a bad sunburn. He is rarely in direct sun since he overheats so easily, so I am not sure what this could be from??

[NeylasMom]

I forgot to mention something weird - the skin on his back legs is peeling off in huge chunks. Like if a human got a bad sunburn. He is rarely in direct sun since he overheats so easily, so I am not sure what this could be from??

Not creating open sores/wounds, but just a top/dead layer?

 

I have no idea either way, just thought someone who might would want the clarification.

[RileysLegacy]

Not creating open sores/wounds, but just a top/dead layer?

 

I have no idea either way, just thought someone who might would want the clarification.

yes, just a dead layer. He sure has had a lot of strange back leg issues.

[tbhounds]

Perhaps he's peeling scabs from past excessive licking?

[VinnieAndRexsMom]

I am so glad you have a diagnosis. DH and I are both on beta blockers and they are good stuff for us

[RileysLegacy]

omg you guys, I just almost killed my dog

 

I took him to the dog park to see if he would do better now that he's been on the heart medication for almost 2 weeks. The vet told me to "test" him out. The weather has been a lot cooler & it was late enough that the sun was down, so I thought he would be ok.

 

He walked around, visited everyone & all the dogs for maybe 10 mins. No running at all. Then he chased the other dogs for less than 1 minute, running fast but def not full speed. Then he came back over to me, he was bowing, laying down, getting back up, bowing again, etc and panting like crazy. So I immediately took him to the car, where he threw up. He won't drink water when he's like that. I was so scared. I wasn't sure if I should rush him to the e vet, but he's done all this before so I decided to take him home (2 mins drive) & see if he would relax. He was ok once we got inside and he lay down, but I think I might be the one having a heart attack now!

 

I'm so bummed. I was so hopeful the meds would help I know my vet is going to suggest the week long test, but I'm not even sure what the point is. He can't do any strenuous activity, period. I'm not willing to keep making him have episodes & testing him, one of these times he's going to die! I don't know what to do from here...

 

Thanks for letting me vent. :(

[JJNg]

Then he came back over to me, he was bowing, laying down, getting back up, bowing again, etc and panting like crazy. So I immediately took him to the car, where he threw up. He won't drink water when he's like that. I was so scared. I wasn't sure if I should rush him to the e vet, but he's done all this before

I don't remember all the details of Legs' signs, but I don't recall you ever describing episodes like this? I remember you talking about hind end weakness and collapse, but this bowing, laying down, getting back up, etc sounds different? And does he typically throw up during his episodes? The description of this episode doesn't sound heart related.

 

I understand the frustration, but there's obviously something wrong, and I'd encourage you to continue to pursue this. Describe this recent episode to your vets and see what they think. I'd consider getting an internist involved if you don't already have one. Not sure if these are already things your vets have considered, but some of the possibilities that come to mind are myasthenia gravis, atypical Addison's disease, some kind of sympathetic/parasympathetic system disorder, a condition called exercise-induced collapse, or even an odd presentation of seizure activity.

[RileysLegacy]

He's done this before. Usually only after running. Sometimes back legs collapse too. He also gets all clammy & shaky.

 

I've seen just about every specialist in Hawaii, some more than once. My vet did mention there is a blood test for exercise induced collapsing, so we will do that next. Other than that, I will not be letting him run or exercise strenuously anymore. It's really sad but i dont see an alternative. He is pretty happy being a couch potato. I take him to work sometimes which he loves.

 

Oh and yes, he's thrown up before too. I attributed it to him eating grass at the park, but today he didn't eat any grass.

 

When he is leashed walked & has an episode, he's never thrown up.

[Newgreymom]

Lucy, I'm sorry you still have no answers. Poor Legs...I pray you can get to the bottom of this soon. Your in our thoughts.

[Batmom]

That's wild. It would be really interesting (tho NOT practical, and possibly dangerous) to get a blood sample when he is actually having an episode. I wonder if he has some odd type of recurrent rhabdomyolysis or a blood sugar disorder ...... Maybe the vet's blood test (let us know what it is) will shed some light.

 

I'm sorry you've been through such a wringer, you two, and hope you have many happy if less energetic times together.

[NeylasMom]

Lucy, I'm so sorry. I can only imagine how frustrating all of this must be.

[carronstar]

Big hugs. That must have been terrifying for you. Keeping Legs in my thoughts and prayers.

[Guest grey_dreams]

One time my Zuki (who had mitral valve insufficiency heart disease) collapsed like that after running. It was even before the vet had detected the murmur and before we knew of his disease. He had been running hard for quite a long time (during an intense playdate with other galgos). All of a sudden he just collapsed in the field, tried to get up, collapsed again, panting like crazy. Later I realized that it must have been connected to his heart disease - maybe not enough oxygenation of the blood, maybe not enough blood flow. Luckily it only happened to us once, but the symptoms you descibe make me think that maybe it could be related to his heart.

[RileysLegacy]

My gut feeling is that it is his heart. Of course, I know nothing about anything. He threw up a few more times during the night, so maybe the puking was just coincidental. There was a small piece of something weird in the last pile.

I'm feeling so hopeless about him. This is a dog that LOVES playing, loves socializing, loves playing fetch, etc. it just seems so unfair. My last greyhound would have been totally content laying around all the time, and for the most part Legs is too, but this isn't the life he deserves. I guess he's getting older anyway (turning 8 soon), but it sucks. And in the summer months it's even worse.

Edited February 1, 2013 by RileysLegacy

[NeylasMom]

Don't give up Lucy. I might consider doing the week long monitoring. I know it will be a bit of a pain for him, but not intolerable. And if your vet thinks the episodes when he plays aren't doing any permanent damage I might even consider taking him to the dog park once with it on. I don't know, I certainly see how that's a very tough call. Maybe grill your specialist on what information might or might not be gained from him having the monitor on when it happens.

 

And then I'd send EVERYTHING - all of his records, test results, detailed history - to OSU to see what Dr. Couto says.

[duncan41]

Oh, Lucy! I am so sorry you have no answers! At this point, maybe it's time to shift gears as you have stated and consider what is best for Legs. You now know he can't exercise strenuously and even your mom's yard may be too large even if he could self-regulate his exercise, so your present situation may be just what he needs.

 

I think you will relate to this: One of mine loves to run - she would run herself into the ground if I let her. Unfortunately, she has a tendency to sprain her toes when let loose to run freely and almost ripped a dewclaw off once, so we walk and walk and walk and walk. When she gets "full of it", she does "doughnuts" in the house and she may play crazily with a toy for a few minutes. Does she miss running at the dog park? I don't know, but I do know that if she were separated from me, DH and her litter sister, she would be a very unhappy girl. If I continue to allow her to run at the dog park, she would be in jeopardy every time she ran.

 

It just so happens that she's also 8 years old - will be 9 on April 1st (yeah, I know, the "April fools" joke was on me when I took her and her litter sister straight off the track!). She's not anything close to the wild child of 7 years ago, but that part of her history is so much a part of her and so fresh in my mind! Do I miss it? You betcha, but if I let my heart rule my mind, she would be in a constant state of hurting and healing so I'm taking the steps necessary to protect her from herself........................ushering her into her senior years so that we can both enjoy the time she has left. In my heart, it hurts to think that I will never see her run again, but watching her limp hurts more.

 

I know that you will do what is best for Legs. I will continue to pray that you get some answers about what is causing his symptoms.

[Guest grey_dreams]

Please don't feel hopeless. Now you have a diagnosis and have started medication. It can take longer than a couple of weeks to see some improvement from the medicine.

 

I might suggest some things that helped my angel Zuki. I know his heart disease is different than Riley's arrhythmia, and I haven't reserached arrhythmia, but I did research heart disease a lot. Coenzyme Q10 really helped Zuki. I used a cell-permeant form called Nutri-nano CoQ10 from Solgar. You can order it through Amazon if you can't find it locally. I started him off with one capsule per day, and noticed an improvement in his energy level and brightness within about three days. Later, as his heart function continued to deteriorate, I gave him two capsules per day. I also did my best to keep his metabolism alkaline, by adding Raw Organic Perfect Food Vegetable Powder to his meals (approx. 1 level teaspoon per meal). I found that Zuki's metabolism was becoming acidic (leading to bacterial skin infections in our case), and the powder really helped him. Carnitine and taurine could potentially help (I gave both, both from either Solgar or Veridian). I also added in other antioxidants and free radical scavengers, and other herbal supplements as the disease progressed. If you want, I can write more about the different supplements and things that helped Zuki.

 

Edited to add: Instead of running, you can engage other activities to keep Riley active and playful that don't stress his heart function. A favorite game here is that the dogs get a portion of their meal in the form of kibble that I toss around the house and throw into their blankets/bedding. They have to use their eyes and nose to hunt out the pieces all around the house. The dogs absolutely adore this game! It tires them out too, more than I would have guessed before I started playing it.

Edited February 1, 2013 by grey_dreams

[RileysLegacy]

The thing with the week test is that the whole point is to get him to have episodes (you push a button when he is in distress that turns the monitor on). His episodes seem to be getting worse & scarier, so what if I do this, and he drops dead? There is another dog park right around the corner from my vet, so I am going to ask her what she thinks about me taking him there and then directly to see her. But doing it for a whole week? Not to mention it is a thick neoprene vest that even with our winter weather will be hot for him to wear for a whole week. I don't know... I will talk to my vet again for sure.

 

Thanks everyone. All of your posts mean a lot.

Please don't feel hopeless. Now you have a diagnosis and have started medication. It can take longer than a couple of weeks to see some improvement from the medicine.

 

I might suggest some things that helped my angel Zuki. I know his heart disease is different than Riley's arrhythmia, and I haven't reserached arrhythmia, but I did research heart disease a lot. Coenzyme Q10 really helped Zuki. I used a cell-permeant form called Nutri-nano CoQ10 from Solgar. You can order it through Amazon if you can't find it locally. I started him off with one capsule per day, and noticed an improvement in his energy level and brightness within about three days. Later, as his heart function continued to deteriorate, I gave him two capsules per day. I also did my best to keep his metabolism alkaline, by adding Raw Organic Perfect Food Vegetable Powder to his meals (approx. 1 level teaspoon per meal). I found that Zuki's metabolism was becoming acidic (leading to bacterial skin infections in our case), and the powder really helped him. Carnitine and taurine could potentially help (I gave both, both from either Solgar or Veridian). I also added in other antioxidants and free radical scavengers, and other herbal supplements as the disease progressed. If you want, I can write more about the different supplements and things that helped Zuki.

 

Edited to add: Instead of running, you can engage other activities to keep Riley active and playful that don't stress his heart function. A favorite game here is that the dogs get a portion of their meal in the form of kibble that I toss around the house and throw into their blankets/bedding. They have to use their eyes and nose to hunt out the pieces all around the house. The dogs absolutely adore this game! It tires them out too, more than I would have guessed before I started playing it.

My vet seemed to think the meds would help pretty much immediately, if they were going to help at all. I will look into those supps, thanks. And yes, I do make sure to try to engage him in other ways w/ lots of chewing time & time lounging outside, and bringing him with me places when I can.

[RileysLegacy]

I talked to my vet more in depth yesterday when I brought Jabari in. She's still trying to touch base w/ the cardiologist. She told me they had a heart emergency patient yesterday that was still there on oxygen. I think she is now taking Legs' case a bit more seriously. She agreed that it is not a good idea for me to take him home & purposely make him have episodes for a week. Instead, we are going to make him have one near the vet. There is a dog park right down the street, or I will just take him for a jog. She said that way they can get him on oxygen and see exactly what his heart is doing in the middle of an episode. It is still scary but a lot better than me doing it at home! So the saga continues...

[carronstar]

Keeping Legs in my thoughts and prayers.

[Guest grey_dreams]

I have to admit that I don't understand their reasoning that they need to induce a heart episode (crisis). They have already determined that he has arrhythmia. They have prescribed a medication to treat that condition. How will forcing a crisis affect that diagnosis or treatment? Personally, I would be reluctant to follow this plan, unless they could give me very strong and very convincing arguments for it. If it's because he is still having episodes with his back legs collapsing after exercise, even though they believe the medication should already eliminate that problem, are there not other medications that they can try first to see if they have an effect, before inducing a heart crisis? Sorry if all of this is already clear to you, I don't mean it as a criticism of you, but I just wanted to understand their reasoning. I lost my heart and soul Zuki to heart disease, so I have some interest in it.

[greyhead]

I have the same take on this as grey_dreams. Is it possible there's a back-end nerve problem in addition to the heart problem?

[RileysLegacy]

No, I totally agree with you guys. That is why I was going to say no to the week long heart monitor testing. I think they are thinking that while he does have an arrhythmia, something else must be going on w/ his heart when he exerts himself to cause the episodes of collapsing, so figuring out what that is is necessary for proper treatment. I'm not totally clear myself, and will be discussing it further w/ my vet once she has talked to the cardiologist again.

 

Basically nobody has any idea why he is doing what he's doing, and none of the vets have ever really witnessed a serious episode, even though I have plenty on video that they've seen. He's been seen by numerous specialists, including a recent $300 consult w/ a neurologist who said there was absolutely nothing abnormal he could find about his back end, spine, etc. That neurologist was the one who finally picked up that he had a heart condition. Of course, anything is possible, since Legs can't talk & he has not had an MRI done. But the neuro told me that he didn't recommend an MRI at this time.

 

It's all very confusing & frustrating. I just want to know what is wrong w/ my dog so we can fix it!