At My Wits End With Jack...

[Guest JenZ]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm at my wits end with poor Jack, and would appreciate any advice on his experience.

 

My Jack (just turned 5) has been having leg issues (back right leg) for a year now. He's seen 4 vets, 2 Ortho specialists and a physical therapist, LOL. Last spring he was diagnosed with a bruised Iliopsoas Muscle (in the groin under his back right leg) and underwent months of laser, magnet and massage/passive range of motion exercises through December. That got better, but he refused to use the leg, still, and would hold it up, hopping around. X-rays showed that he had fractured that leg's hock while racing, so they said he must have osteo-arthritis from calcification- OR just learned to become 3-legged during the Iliopsoas bruising and it had become learned behavior (??). He also had very very slight pinching on a nerve in his back, both Orthopedic specialists he saw said that was normal for a 4-5 year old Greyhound. We first tried Gabapentin, with no results. Rimadyl, with no results. Meloxicam, no results. Still hopping on 3 legs.

 

I asked my vet if this constant lameness/hopping could be from a TBD, maybe Erlichiosis or Babesia. Jack raced down in Florida and his paperwork said he was infested with ticks when he went into the rescue group. She said that lameness from a TBD would be all-over, not just settled in one leg (is this true?). She also said he would be feverish, swollen, etc. Jack shows none of those symptoms. The only thing is that he seems a bit "down" (but in pain, I'd be too) and the whites of his eyes have always been bright pink. Liver enzymes are a bit elevated. And he's constantly hopping on that back right leg. He will use it on walks or when the adrenaline is pumping (i.e. when I get home from work and he's bonkers) but otherwise... hopping. When he uses it, it's wobbly and gimpy.

 

The vets now say that it's arthritis settled in the hock and that must be the problem. But he's only 5 years old!! Would arthritis at this age be SO bad that he's hopping on 3 legs most of the time?? Could a TBD be settled in his back leg? Bloodwork is all normal. He's Lyme negative. When I pressed for a full tick panel, the vets said it would be a waste of money (because he has no symptoms) and that the next step would be a CAT or MRI scan (about $2,000, GULP).

 

Can arthritis be so bad in a 5-year old that they are 3-legged??

 

Could a TBD settle in one leg??

 

What could an MRI or CAT scan show?

 

If anyone has advice, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm at my wits end and super discouraged.

 

Jen

[Guest madredhare]

I think I would test for TBD. Those damn things are nasty.

[kolarik1]

I don't know about everything that you mentioned, but Zelda was just over 6 years old when diagnosed with arthritis in one of her toes. She was fine, then a couple of hours later after running she was holding her paw up in the air & the one toe was extremely swollen...at first I thought a bee sting but I couldn't find anything...I waited a few days and it didn't go down, so off to the vet. They x-rayed it and that toe is just about fused together, so now she's on arthritis meds twice a day and runs like she used to.

[mychip1]

No advice...just sending best wishes...

 

Though...I certainly think testing for TBD's might be worth it.

[Guest IrskasMom]

MHO I think your Vet is right about TBD would be all over his Body. I have no other Advice except, there are quite a few People here on GT who are absolutly sold on Accupuncture.Poor Jack, give him a Mega Hug from me

[racindog]

Cash had a broken hock also. I think Jack probably just has some pain associated with it still so he doesn't use it. Cash's vet told me that many greyts with broken hocks do have signifcant pain after they are "healed". The hock is such a big intricate important joint it is easy for me to imagine that something could be amiss with it. There's probably nothing to be done or that can be done. I have had 2 houndies that endured pain their whole life- and Cash had other issues and the vet told me that even I didn't realize the pain she endured every day. Yet she was always happy and tried not to let on. God I just have never seen a more courageous spirit-especially at the end. But my point is that even though it breaks your heart to see them hurt sometimes there is nothing you can do but love them and provide appropriate meds & treatments. Goldie's issues were from orthopedic abuse and some kind of questionable pelvic surgery discovered on x-ray the vet was embarassed to even tell me about-it was a mutilation really probably to "improve" his running ability the vet postulated? I'd be a millionaire if I had a $1 for everytime I seen Goldie scream and limp in pain when I would curse the human race for doing that to him. He would have been healthy and painfree if man had not intentionally harmed him. From my experience it don't take much wrong to cause pain-soemthing as simple as a bone chip can do it. So I would jsut think it was due to his perviously broken hock-especially after what my vet had told me about it causing pain to quite a few houndies.

 

 

[sweetdogs]

I know you said you've been to see an orthopedist but I wonder if taking him to somebody who really knows racing greyhound anatomy would help. I'm thinking Dr. Dyce at OSU or Dr. Radcliffe in WV. It would be great if there was a dogman who could help you out with diagnostics even. I think our hounds get injuries that other dogs don't & it stumps most vets.

 

I guess a healed fracture could be unstable enough for Jack not to use the leg & would therefore cause a back problem & possibly a muscle pull. Most hounds will use the leg, even if it's a little wonky. I'm thinking of tbhounds angel Pooter, whose hock fracture caused his leg to jut out to the side with each step. He would walk on it but give a little hop when picking up speed. It was awful to see but he used it & didn't hop around.

 

Even though he doesn't seem to be screaming "I have a TBD!", it would be nice to test for it. Negative test results don't always rule it out but you've gone this far with no progress, might be worth it.

[greyhead]

I don't think it's correct that lameness from a TBD is all over the body. In my experience and from what I've read, it can settle in one place. I'd test if I were you. But first I'd quickly go to the Tick List and tell them what you've told us. Tom Beckett of Texas is the resident vet on that list and very knowledgeable. Also this site is very good https://sites.google.com/site/tickbornediseaseindogs/ and a wealth of information.

[Burpdog]

Try this vet:

 

Jennifer A.Goetz (certified CHI acupuncture)315-682-2200 8160 Cazenovia Road Manlius NY Zip 13104 Clinic Name Manlius Veterinary Hospital www.manliusvet.com Veterinary Degree(s)/Certifications DVM, CVA

and this vet:

 

Lisa Bancoft, DVM (certified chiropractic)

Canton, NY

315-386-2754

[Yamaha_gurl]

I've heard so many people that have gone to numerous vets and finally going to OSU and having success.

[Burpdog]

To me it's obvious this is a case for alternative medicine. Western hasn't done anything for him.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm at my wits end with poor Jack, and would appreciate any advice on his experience.

 

My Jack (just turned 5) has been having leg issues (back right leg) for a year now. He's seen 4 vets, 2 Ortho specialists and a physical therapist, LOL. Last spring he was diagnosed with a bruised Iliopsoas Muscle (in the groin under his back right leg) and underwent months of laser, magnet and massage/passive range of motion exercises through December. That got better, but he refused to use the leg, still, and would hold it up, hopping around. X-rays showed that he had fractured that leg's hock while racing, so they said he must have osteo-arthritis from calcification- OR just learned to become 3-legged during the Iliopsoas bruising and it had become learned behavior (??). He also had very very slight pinching on a nerve in his back, both Orthopedic specialists he saw said that was normal for a 4-5 year old Greyhound. We first tried Gabapentin, with no results. Rimadyl, with no results. Meloxicam, no results. Still hopping on 3 legs.

 

 

FWIW, I was told the same thing for my bridge girl, Piaget, who came to me with a badly broken hock - both by her trainer, and then by her vet. Screws were removed, and the leg healed well, but for the 5 years she was with me she would 3-leg-it, some times more than others. I won't say I didn't worry about it, but after numerous vet checks, we could come up with no other explanation.

[tbhounds]

I've heard so many people that have gone to numerous vets and finally going to OSU and having success.

Bite the bullet and make the trip out to Ohio Stste and see Dr Dyce. He's the best of the best when it comes to greyhound orthopedic problems.

Have you checked for a corn? Also, have any of the vets you have seen ever run a snap 4dx test?

Seriously - go to OSU.

 

To me it's obvious this is a case for alternative medicine. Western hasn't done anything for him.

Or- this hound hasn't seen the right veterinarian yet. There's an answer out there- need the correct clinician to find it (IMO its Dr Dyce).

[Remolacha]

A full tick panel would be a waste of money, but a $2000 MRI isn't? It's not a classic tick symptom, but for my peace of mind, I think I would do it anyway. That said, Fletcher has had arthritis with intermittent limps since he was 5, but he doesn't hop. But, he didn't have a broken hock, either. I also would try acupuncture. It is terrible to see them in pain and not be able to fix it

[Burpdog]

I believe it would be unusual to have two bad orthopedic specialists (assume they are board certified), but it's possible. Sometimes western medicine does not do it. I'm not saying there isn't value in Western medicine -- there is a time and place.

 

She said that lameness from a TBD would be all-over, not just settled in one leg (is this true?).

 

no, not true.

[DaisyDoodle]

First, I would consider corns. Some vets will tell you dogs don't get corns, but they do. Take pics of the pads on that foot and post them here. Folks with corndogs will quickly tell you if there is a corn visible.

 

Next, I'd check between the toes for foreign bodies, etc.

 

Then, I'd see a chiropractor or neuro person and check from nose to tail for neuro problems. Even something wrong in the neck could possibly display in the rear end (though I think it would not be just on one side).

 

Next, I'd try acupuncture and chiro to see if those help.

 

I'd also try tick testing before an MRI. Ask Burpdog or someone else who is familiar to make sure you have the right tests done at the best facility.

 

I second what folks said about Dr. Radcliffe. Actually, I'd call him and ask his opinion. He loves to talk to greyhound people and he'd probably give you advice about avenues to pursue prior to driving all the way to Wheeling. His office number is (304) 242-9575.

 

ETA I'd also contact RockingShip. He's a retired trainer and has written about issues that present in ways that make them difficult to detect. If you can't reach him through GT let me know.

Edited May 2, 2012 by DaisyDoodle

[Guest alannamac]

My first grey and my current grey both had/have an issue with their right hind leg. I wonder if this is the leg that gets the worst of it

torque wise when they're going around the track?

 

Anyone know when they break their legs racing if there's a trend as to which leg it is?

 

Just an observation. I hope your pup is feeling better soon.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I think right-rear is the vulnerable leg in racing. The dogs circle counter-clockwise, so the right side is doing more "pushing" around the curves.

 

My Silver has a gimpy right-rear. She doesn't put her weight on it when she stands, but she walks normally on it. In her case, there's an entire tendon out of place: the Achilles tendon goes up the outside of her foot rather than straight up the back.

 

X-rays when I got her showed early arthritis in that leg. Silver will be 7 in a couple of weeks. She retired from racing about 4 months short of her fourth birthday. She's doing well enough on the leg at present, and she's not taking any pain meds.

[MaryJane]

I may be off base -- have you tried physical therapy - there are different types but pretty much the therapist and the dog go into a water filled container that might have a treadmill in it and the greyhound usually has a life jacket. This forces the greyhound to use his legs but since he is swimming, there is no weight on the leg. This lets the leg slowly build up muscle again so it gets stronger.

 

It'll also let you see if the leg is being used when there is no weight on it and that could be helpful in a diagnosis.

[Guest JenZ]

Wow, you guys are awesome!! I really appreciate it!

 

I never thought of acupuncture. We did some "alternative" PT with him, but only cold-laser, magnetic, and passive range-of-motion exercises. The center he attended did have an acupuncturist, though. Hmmm.

 

I appreciate the advice on the tick panel. I guess it couldn't hurt. Jack's current vet said it wouldn't be worth it, but I saw that Prototek (?) has a $60-ish Greyhound panel? I'll see if they will do that, just to give me peace of mind.

 

As for corns... yes, Jack is my third greyhound with corns (ARG). It popped up over the winter but with duct tape and hulling, seems to have disappeared. I gave the toe a good "pressing" last night and he didn't yank it away, like he would before. I don't see it anymore either, but am keeping a look-out.

 

 

I just feel so bad for him. He always had a bit of a strange gait (gimpy) but was SUPER-active, used all his legs, etc. for the first two years after I adopted him. He was ball crazy, went jogging with me, ran in the yard like a crazy man. Then after his Iliopsoas tear, he's been on 3 legs and just hasn't been able to get his mojo back for 12 months now. Poor guy!!!! I wish he could talk, and let me know what the heck is going on....

 

Jen

[racindog]

Wow, you guys are awesome!! I really appreciate it!

 

I never thought of acupuncture. We did some "alternative" PT with him, but only cold-laser, magnetic, and passive range-of-motion exercises. The center he attended did have an acupuncturist, though. Hmmm.

 

I appreciate the advice on the tick panel. I guess it couldn't hurt. Jack's current vet said it wouldn't be worth it, but I saw that Prototek (?) has a $60-ish Greyhound panel? I'll see if they will do that, just to give me peace of mind.

 

As for corns... yes, Jack is my third greyhound with corns (ARG). It popped up over the winter but with duct tape and hulling, seems to have disappeared. I gave the toe a good "pressing" last night and he didn't yank it away, like he would before. I don't see it anymore either, but am keeping a look-out.

 

 

I just feel so bad for him. He always had a bit of a strange gait (gimpy) but was SUPER-active, used all his legs, etc. for the first two years after I adopted him. He was ball crazy, went jogging with me, ran in the yard like a crazy man. Then after his Iliopsoas tear, he's been on 3 legs and just hasn't been able to get his mojo back for 12 months now. Poor guy!!!! I wish he could talk, and let me know what the heck is going on....

 

Jen

 

He can talk. A good animal communicator can ask him as long as he is willing to talk. That's another possibility you can look at. I know some folks write it off as mojo but it works for me even with my racehorse.

Edited May 3, 2012 by racindog

[Guest trevdog]

Acupunture has done wonders here...I was never a proponent of it until I saw how much it has improved Ossie's activity level after only a few visits.