Beyond Frustrated

[Sambuca]

Sailor is a great dog most of the time. When I'm not home, hes loose and muzzled. He tries to get any food possible. He kicks unopened bags of food until they explode and knocks down baby gates to get to cat food. Whenever he does this he ends up with bad diarrhea. When he ends up with diarrhea he completely forgets hes house trained. I woke up this morning to the sound of him peeing in my bedroom. When I yelled he stopped and I took him out where he peed and pooped. When I came in I found that he had peed another time during the night. I went back to bed for an hour out 2 and woke up to the horrid smell of diarrhea. I found 2 piles of it. Hes never great about telling me he needs to go out, but rarely has accidents unless hes sick. And when hes sick, my house becomes his toilet. What do I do? I can't really crate him right now because I have a foster and don't have room for 2 crates. I can try gating him into an area away from the baby gate to the cat food. How do I teach him to tell me he has to go? I have bells for the door, but he avoids them. When I'm sleeping he only has access to my bedroom, upstairs hallway and bathroom. I can put bells upstairs if I can teach him to ring them. Any other suggestions? I'm tired and frustrated. This happens at least once a month or even more.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Sambuca

[onrushpam]

No sick dog can be expected to "tell you" he has to go. He may not know until it happens!

If your dog is having bad diarrhea once or more a month, something is very, very wrong. Is it always a result of him eating what he shouldn't? If so, you must do a better job of keeping him away from food he shouldn't have. For example, put the cat food into a container with a locking lid. If he is just randomly getting sick, he needs a vet visit to figure out what is causing it. You must eliminate the cause of the diarrhea before you have any hope of solving this. This is not a housetraining issue, it's a health issue.

[Sambuca]

It is only when he gets into things that he has diarrhea. My cats need to eat so I can't keep their food locked up. It is behind a baby gate. I have been getting better at keeping him freon everything but the cat food. I know he can't help the diarrhea, but he should be able to tell me when he needs to pee instead of going in the house. Thats the part that is really annoying me.

[Time4ANap]

Unfortunately when the Big D kicks in, it happens fast with these guys. A crate will not help in this case, because if the diarrhea kicks in, you'll just have a crate to clean up.

 

I agree with Onrushpam that there is something else at play here.

 

Do the simple stuff first - Rule out Worms / parasites, get to the root of the stomach issues with your vet, secure the food in a closet or other area that he has no access to, and it sounds like a turnout or long walk before bedtime is essential. Keep him out there until he goes. Make that part of his routine without fail.

 

These things are not fun for you, but they are better than what you are waking up to.

 

Others will chime in with additional suggestions. Many have been through similar issues, and will be able to tell you what has worked for them.

 

Good luck.

 

Edited to add - just saw your other post regarding the cat food. Do you have an area where the cat 's food and water can be kept and have them use a cat door or opening in a door or gate that only they can get through? That's probably the only way to absolutley keep him away from it.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Time4ANap

[Sambuca]

I meant to use the crate to keep him out of things. His diarrhea is caused by eating things he shouldn't. when hes not getting into trouble his poop is solid. At night he always pees a couple times and poops at least once, and only has accidents in the morning when hes eaten stiff he shouldn't have.

 

He knocks down the gate to get to the cat food. Out is always gated off from the dogs. He only does it every so often though.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Sambuca

[onrushpam]

Perhaps try a different sort of gate to keep him away from the cat food? Some are sturdier than others. You might need the kind that actually screws into the door frame. Or, if you rent and want to keep damage to a minimum, you might try what has worked for some of our adopters... eyebolts screwed into the door frame or wall (needs to be in a stud or use molly bolts), then use a clip to attach an xpen to the eye bolts. You can use a tall xpen and it's easy enough to unhook it when you want to open it.

 

It sounds like the cat food consumption is your real problem.

 

As to peeing in the house... some dogs just never learn to "signal". It's better to establish a routine and follow it. If you observe his habits, you'll quickly figure out if he is a dog that needs to GO right after he eats, or is he's one that needs to GO 30 minutes after he eats, etc. Dogs are creatures of habit. A schedule will help a lot!

 

Hang in there!

[Sambuca]

Cat food is definitely the diarrhea problem.

 

Normally he doesn't pee in the house, but when he gets diarrhea he also pees in the house. So obviously his pee schedule changes when he has diarrhea, but how do I get him to tell me that he needs to go out?

[Wonder]

I pulled a bookcase away from the wall and put the cat food against the wall . The dogs couldn't get to it to eat it and the cats had a safe place to eat.

 

Sounds like you need a different baby gate.

Can you baby gate him in your room at night? Mine are baby gated in my room otherwise they will pee or poop in the living room.

[Guest madredhare]

We have cats too and I had my husband make our own gate of sorts. We used a piece of peg board and made a gate with a cat door cut out of the bottom. Is is on hinges and has a hook and eye latch on it. We put it on the outside of the laundry room door so we can still close that door if we need to. It is tall enough to keep the hounds out. Now if we don't latch it, the dogs get right in there and eat up the food and get in the cat boxes. There are also gates that you can buy that have a small cat door in the bottom of them as well.

[onrushpam]

Well, if you clear up the diarrhea, the pee problem may also disappear. But, to the question, "How do I get him to tell me he needs to go out?"...

 

As I said above, some dogs just never learn it and a schedule is your friend.

 

But, to make an attempt:

• Wait until all the diarrhea issue is resolved. Don't even attempt to train this until you've solved that problem.
• Forget the bell. I've tried it and very successfully trained dogs to ring a bell, and ring a bell and ring a bell... I don't think they ever really associated it with going out, but just with getting a treat! Or, maybe with going out to chase birds/squirrels, etc. I don't think they ever associated it with elimination and they drove me nuts with ringing the damned bell! (I was working from home at the time and it became incredibly annoying. I eventually put the bell away.)
• Get the dog on a schedule and I'll bet he will start to anticipate the schedule and go to the door when he knows "out time" is near. When that happens, give him a treat, snap on the leash and take him out. Treat again for successful elimination.
• Be careful what you ask for! My dogs are all incredibly good about communicating their desire to go out... to the point of extreme annoyance! Donald, in particular, will do his "bounce and bark routine" at all hours of the day/night, if he decides he wants to go out. Note I didn't say he "NEEDS" to go out! He "WANTS" to go out. And, he is a real pill about it! DH is a semi-saint and never fails to get up to let Donald out, cursing all the way.

I guess the bottom line is, your dog is relatively new and you are still figuring things out. With patience and observation, you'll figure out what works for you and your dog, along with what your tolerance level is for BS "I want to go out" requests, whether those be bell-ringing or bounce-and-bark!

[Batmom]

Joseph is rather subtle in asking to go out. He might touch me with his nose or tug on my pillow, but he isn't very vigorous about it. I find it really helps to have these subtle guys gated into my fairly small bedroom -- if they're up pacing, I'm likely to wake in time to get them outdoors.

 

Now, if I *know* that something upsetting to the innards has occurred (or a big drink of water later than usual), I might stay up extra late to get them out again and/or set the alarm an hour earlier.

[christinepi]

It sounds like you leave cat food out at all times for the cats. We have three cats and while we gave them unlimited access to food initially, we stopped doing that completely. They get fed at fixed times in the morning and in the evening. They get to finish their bowls and once they're done, within ca 5 minutes, the bowls and any uneaten food disappears, locked away safely. Works like a charm. That would seem to completely solve your problem.

[Sambuca]

I've actually had him for 10 months. He doesn't seem to like going for walks (I don't have a yard), but just wants to be with me so if I teach him to tell me I don't think he'd do it all the time.

 

The gate has a cat door in it. I'd be afraid they'd knock over a bookshelf trying to get to the food. This is dog who constantly acts like I'm starving him.

 

The dogs are gated upstairs when I'm sleeping and have access to just my bedroom, the hallway and the bathroom. The accidents often happen in my bedroom so that's not helping.

 

I'm not changing my cats routine because of a dog. They were here first and they shouldn't be punished because the dog is misbehaving. I also can't feed 7 animals at one time and keep the dogs away from the cats and the cats from stealing from each other.

 

I am going to see about attaching the gate to the wall and see if that helps.

 

He is not waking me up when he has to go to the bathroom. I don't know if he's trying to or not though. When I'm awake the accidents are much less common. At any sign at all we go out. If he paces even once we go out. I'd really just like him to wake me up when the need hits.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Sambuca

[Batmom]

If they have more room to move around, they have more room to fuss and work themselves into "OMG, I gotta go NOW!" as well as more room to not disturb you.

[onrushpam]

 

The dogs are gated upstairs when I'm sleeping and have access to just my bedroom, the hallway and the bathroom. The accidents often happen in my bedroom so that's not helping.

Too much space. Confine him to just your bedroom.

 

I'm not changing my cats routine because of a dog. They were here first and they shouldn't be punished because the dog is misbehaving. I also can't feed 7 animals at one time and keep the dogs away from the cats and the cats from stealing from each other.

Well, you have to do what you have to do... But, I agree with the concept of not leaving cat food out all the time, especially if you can't reliably keep the dog away from it.

 

He is not waking me up when he has to go to the bathroom. I don't know if he's trying to or not though. When I'm awake the accidents are much less common. At any sign at all we go out. If he paces even once we go out. I'd really just like him to wake me up when the need hits.

Your desire is unrealistic. Many dogs never go beyond just standing by the door to signal the need to go out (if they even get that far). Their signals are often very subtle. But, if you confine him to your bedroom only, you'll have a much better shot at learning to wake up if he is standing by the door, or up and pacing about.

 

With new dogs in our household, we initially block them into a very small space between my side of the bed and a substantial piece of furniture. The space is barely bigger than a crate. We use the side panel of a drop-pin crate, leaned across between the end of the bed and the end of the other piece of furniture (it's an antique chaise-lounge). If the dog gets up and moves around, the "gate" goes down with a BANG!

 

You have to get creative and figure out what will work for you and your dog.

 

 

[christinepi]

I'm not changing my cats routine because of a dog. They were here first and they shouldn't be punished because the dog is misbehaving. I also can't feed 7 animals at one time and keep the dogs away from the cats and the cats from stealing from each other.

 

I am going to see about attaching the gate to the wall and see if that helps.

 

Not sure where the "punishment" for the cats is (right now it seems your dog is getting the short end of the stick for following his nose and stomach). I hear you on the stealing from each other bit--I need to watch my cats while they eat. Anyways, hopefully you'll find a solution that will work for you and all critters involved.

[MaryJane]

 

 

He is not waking me up when he has to go to the bathroom. I don't know if he's trying to or not though. When I'm awake the accidents are much less common. At any sign at all we go out. If he paces even once we go out. I'd really just like him to wake me up when the need hits.

 

 

In this sentence you mention that you don't know if he is trying to wake you up or not - so is there a chance that he is giving you some signals and that you are sleeping thru it

[greysmom]

If you have tried to train him to "tell" you he needs to go out, and it hasn't worked, then it likely will never work, and nothing anyone here can suggest will help either. So you are down to a couple choices:

 

1 - Put up with disgruntled cats for a few weeks while they get used to a new feeding schedule and/or location (It's only a *punishment* to YOU)

 

2 - Keep dealing with his upset stomach and diarrhea when he keeps getting into the cat food

 

If you feel you may be sleeping through his signalling at night, then attach a longer leash to him and to your wrist while you sleep. That way you'll be sure to wake up if he gets up to pace. No dog can be expected to "signal" or tell you anything when they are sick. The obvious answer is to NOT let him get sick.

[Feisty49]

I don't think it's punishment to your cats by protecting your dog.

 

I have one cat for whom I leave dry food out 24/7. I discovered very quickly that Annie Bella, who **hates** the wooden floors in my house, would walk on them to get to the cat food. The diarrhea started with her eating dry cat food in late July and it took a couple of months to get it under control. So that the raid-of-the-Greyhound wouldn't happen again, I put the cat's food up high and Annie no longer has access to it. If I couldn't have put it up high, I would have fed the cat twice a day and she would have learned to eat while she can. While neither animal has special privileges, I don't want either of them sick so did, and would do, what had to be done to keep Annie Bella well.

 

Annie Bella never tells me she has to go out in words, so to speak. If she gets out of her bed, stretches and doesn't lay back down but looks at me instead, I know it's time. If I'm in the kitchen and she stands in the doorway staring at me, it's time. But if I miss the signal or just can't at that moment take her out, she kinda shrugs and goes back to her bed. She can hold it for 11+ hours and sometimes does because she often refuses to go out for a last pee any time past 6:30 PM. It's like she thinks she has to be home because the street lights on are.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Feisty49

[Wonder]

I don't have cats anymore but I have had up to 8 hounds at a time. They all get fed in a different room so no eating the others kibble. Passion ends up in the bathroom.

It takes a little extra time to feed them this way but I know for sure that everyone is eating just their food.

[JJNg]

As others have already stated, the obvious solution is to figure out a more reliable way to keep him away from the cat food, one way or another. If you can do this effectively, it sounds like the problem would be solved.

 

I wanted to comment on the urinary accidents when he has diarrhea. I don't think he can help it. I have a dog who is 100% housetrained. When I've gotten stuck at work and can't make it home, he has held it for 18 hrs with no accidents. Even when he has diarrhea, he will pace and whine and bark, and try to hold it as long as he possibly can, although I'm not always quick enough to get him out in time. When I'm not home and he has diarrhea, I often find that he's also urinated in the house. I suspect that once things "get moving" he can't help it and has to pee too.

 

However, I also agree that I don't think it's realistic to expect every dog to tell you in a very obvious manner that they need to go outside. It may be possible to train him to use a bell on the door (others can probably give you better tips on this), but some dogs just have very subtle signs, and I think it's our job to learn to recognize them. Even the ones that have a more obvious signal, it may not be strong enough to wake up someone who is asleep.

 

Every once in a while, one of my dogs will have an accident overnight, or when I'm not home, because they are sick. I don't get mad or frustrated about it because they can't help it when they're sick. In your situation, you have an obvious underlying cause for the problem, and it should be something that's fairly easily fixed if you're willing to make some adjustments.

[kudzu]

Though I realize it's frustrating & annoying you do need to be realistic. You are leaving food out 24/7. Poor Sailor is just being a dog, doing exactly as nature intended. Please try to keep this in mind & have a little sympathy for him. Yes, your cats were there first when you chose to bring the dog into the home. My cat would almost certainly tell you that was the real punishment.

 

You made a good attempt by putting up the baby gate but it is now time to think of a better way. If switching the cats schedule is something you have chosen not to do then yes you can try reinforcing the baby gate. However, please don't be angry, frustrated or even surprised if Sailor jumps the gate, rips it down or claws up the door frame trying. He now has a multiple successes & likely has learned that persistence & effort pays off. 

 

Another option is to put the cat food into a locked box that only the cats can get into. It would be hard to make. There are also ready made versions for sale for feeding or litter boxes. Basically these are wood boxes with an interior divider. There is a cat sized hole in the outer wall on one side & another one through the far side of the inner panel to the other side. Even if a needle nose fits through the first hole he can't get to the second. A locking lid or wall panel allows you to easily access the bowls. 

 

And yes it would be mice if he would wake you up when he really, really needs to go but your expectation is unrealistic. 

 

Wishing you good luck in finding a successful resolution for all parties. 

[Sambuca]

So I looked at my baby gate and realized I could screw it into the door jam, so I did that. Thanks to whoever reminded me about that. I've had the gate 2 years and just used the tension with success. Hopefully that will work. I'm also sleeping with a double leash around my ankle so I know when hes moving. Thanks for the suggestions. I don't really blame him, it was just one of those mornings where I was very annoyed to be cleaning.

[Guest IrskasMom]

As Batmom said, the wakeing me up is very subtle like licking his Chubbs and stareing at me or pushing with his Nose.I am up immediatly.

Now my Kitty's Food is up on top of a Sideboard in the Familyroom and Morty could not get to it.

[cleptogrey]

cat food in the bathroom, feed the cats there and keep the door closed at ALL times. the cats will get used to the changes.

 

start your dog on rice and beef- and that's it. wait for the diaherrah to clear up,then slowly reintroduce kibble just to make sure it's not another issue. if it doesn't clear up then talk to your vet- maybe a round of flagyl is needed. but it sounds like a cat food issue.

 

rearrange your furniture to set up another crate.

 

once the loose poops are cleared up, re-house-break your pup.

 

forget that he knows and is house broken, do it all over again to re-establish a schedule. it won't hurt and he will know what's expected of him. he might just be a a garbage hound, plants, dirt, book covers are all fair game to a garbage hound. some dogs love to eat everything- i've seen antique book covers nibble on, original artist's prints eaten, plants tossed and shredded, pots of dirt dug in, laundry chewed to bits. since then(my young years of dog ownership) i have seen the light- i put everything away and train to prevent the worst case scenario.

 

baby gates really are not that secure. my 24# welsh terrier has bent the wire gates and knocked them down(when he was suffering from dimentia), the wood can be chewed then the gate opened, the plastic gates eaten(the wt again), my secure gate-hinged to the wall was ripped off!