Seizures, Vestibular, Brain Tumor What? Please Help Avril

[Devotion]

Avril 7 yr old grey exhibited seizures a week ago. she had seizures for 4 hours, yes 4 hours, and was unresponsive to valium. given propofil to stop. exhibits now with severe ataxia and vertigo. tilts head to the left. walks on own but really reguires leaning on you. tends to walk in a circle if you don't walk in straight line.

wbc off the chart when taken on day of seizure. meaning over 90,000. now 11,000.

platelets look different but don't have the exact info on that yet.

 

Just to add I was out of the country when this happened. Avril stayed at the same kennel she always goes to.

Kennel owener noticed at 6am that she was having trouble with back leg. she went in kennel with Avril and Dalton. Avril collapsed and was rushed to my vet who is very grey savy. she had continuos seizures and wouldn't stop with valium. When propofil was added she stopped.

 

I'm beyond devasted. She's been my rock. I've suffered from cancer for 3 years and only left her for a week. I just can't wrap my head around what is wrong.

My vets say it could be a lot of things. I just have a gut feeling we are dealing with a brain tumor.

 

These are the meds that "vril is taking:

zonisamide 100mg 2x day for seizures

meclizine 25mg 2x day for vestibular syndrome which I say is horrid

doxy bc she had erhlichia when I adopted her

baytril. which my vet said crosses the brain barrior in case it's meningitis

 

I am beyond devastasted. I know so many people have greys who need prayers. I so get that and care about all the greys.

 

I just really need prayers for my girl. she has been there for me when I didn't know if I could go on. I just want to do right by her.

If any person has any info or help please let me know. I am soooo appreciative. I have an appt with my vet on Monday and one at A&M on Tues am.

 

thank you so much!

Pam

 

 

edited to add: I need help on so many levels. I've had seizure greys before but this isn't the same. Do I carpet my hardwood floors? what do I do? she wants on the sectional like always and she's up here with me now, because I lifted her after much whining.

Any ideas? she does not crate. she has run of the house and is the princess with all my boys.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Devotion

[TheFullHouse]

Oh my gosh, it sounds like a combination of things. Sending many prayers for your sweetie.

[Devotion]

You are one of the first ones I thought of Judy. I am so freaked out. She never had seizures before. never. something is really wrong.

however, she acts the same... whines, paws for attention, barks, etc. but her body is completely on tilt. she has severe ataxia in my eyes and her head tilds to the left.

 

Edited to add that I told them to put her on doxy bc she had erhlichia when I adopted her. I wanted all my bases covered. although they don't think we are dealing with just a tick disease.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Devotion

[Batmom]

The white count sure sounds like some type of infection. Sending lots of prayers for your girl.

[greyhoundgang]

This sounds more like a stroke to me.

 

I know you weren't there when it happened, and that would be more telling to know. I don't think any dog has seizures continually for 4 hours and survives. But a stroke will last for a while. That fact that she is up and wanting attention and things, but has the head tilt and issues walking makes me think stroke.

 

I like to use acupuncture, and holistic meds. And just quiet and encouragement. I'd not be throwing a variety of drugs at her.

 

here's a few articles i found online

Strokes in Dogs

 

Dog Stroke

[Devotion]

i know the ironic thing is i work in rehab and avril is a certified rehab canine so yeah i get the stroke part and i agree. i know it doesn't sound even real but she did seize for 4 hours. however, she doesn't seem brain damaged but EXTREME ataxic.

i'm beyound in the realm of responsive with her. i know that seems extreme but yes, i'm almost speechless. i didnt even know to post here but i did.

i guess my main question is how a seizure comes on so strong. um without warning? my dog was fine.....

 

and please no flames here...I truly never share with a board but how can this happen? I know life isnt fair. I have terminal cancer myself but I'm just speechless with my 7 yr old grey who was fine. what happened?

[kikibean]

I'm so sorry about your girl.

 

I had a greyhound who had meningitis and one who had vestibular. Both came on very quickly. With the guy who had meningitis, his symptoms slowly developed over the course of a day. It was really strange. Fine in the morning, trouble with the stairs at lunch, trouble walking when I got home from work and couldn't stand by the time we go to the vet. He spent a week at the specialist.

 

My vestibular hound had it come on all of a sudden. One minute she was fine and the next she couldn't get up, stand, her head was tilted and her body sort of stiff. We rushed her to our vet who thought it might be a brain tumor. We took her home thinking that we'd probably have to take her back the next day to have her PTS. She showed a tiny bit of improvement the next morning, but it was a good month+ before the head tilt and everything went away.

 

Neither had seizures.

 

You could contact OSU for a consult.

[greyhoundgang]

The good news is she is recovering. So try to focus on each day's recovery. With a stroke, there is never an easy answer, but they most always come back and at 100%. it just takes time and care. Pesticides can trigger one. Perhaps the kennel just sprayed. Some flea/tick sprays/collars will trigger them. With clots - being thrown anywhere in the body - there is never an easy answer. I also make sure I'm giving the most natural food I can.

 

I, personally, would not have her on those meds. From my experiences, they will not help her if this is a stroke, and potentially can hurt. Again, just my opinion.

[Batmom]

Please do not stop your dog's meds. I'm flabbergasted that that would be suggested.

[greyhoundgang]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I tried to be clear that what I wrote is an opinion. One based on having had hounds with strokes, who were helped using holistic meds and they've recovered 100%.

 

Through the over 25 years I've been doing greyhound rescue, and from the hundreds of hounds passing through my doors, I've seen too many traditional meds thrown at a dog in distress create even more distress and issues. The meds listed were for meningistic, erhlicia, seizures, and vestibular. It's a lot of meds for a variety of conditions. IMO.

 

I also usually get more than one vet's opinion. It never hurts. Again, my apologies.

[JJNg]

Pam, I'm so sorry you're going through this with Avril. I would second the advice to please not stop the meds. While her signs are suspicious of a brain tumor, there are still other possibilities. The ataxia and vestibular signs may still be residual effects of her severe seizures. I imagine the neurologist at A&M will probably want to do an MRI and CSF tap, and hopefully additional testing will give you some answers next week.

 

For greyhoundgang, yes, dogs can have seizures continuously for 4 hours (or longer) and survive. It's called status epilepticus, and I've seen dogs continue to have low grade seizure activity for more than a day despite heavy sedation. It sometimes requires completely anesthetizing the dog for a period of time before the seizures stop. Strokes can cause the signs that Avril's showing now, but they do not cause seizures. And I don't think Avril's vet would have mistaken a stroke for ongoing seizure activity. Also, pesticides and some flea/tick products can cause seizures - I've never heard of them triggering strokes?

[greytpups]

When I went to a day long conference in May at OSU, a vet was discussing neurological exams, etc. during one of the sessions. At dinner, Dr Couto mentioned this vet was the best, sorry, I can't remember his name right now. You may want to contact OSU though, this vet really knew his stuff.

[Guest june]

Pam,

I am so sorry to hear about what you are going through. Being a cancer survivor I know how important she is to you. I don't know what I will do when my heart girl, now 9, starts having trouble as she was my rock through my treatments. I don't have any advice, but I'm keeping both of you in my prayers.

june

[Guest barkdogs]

I am so sorry, how frightening this must be for you.

[Devotion]

Thanks for all the responses, advice and support! So greatly appreciated....

 

She has seen 5 vets so far that have specifically come to see her and many vets have been on consult. She was transfered to ER vet every night when my regular vet closed.

I boarded her where I always board my pets. She was fine the day before and up to her usual antics.

No pesticides etc were used at the place. and yes, I know I wasn't there so I don't know everything but I do know I trust these people. and frankly, she would have died without their quick action.

 

I will get a complete list of all her bloodwork in the am. I know her platelets were off too but unfortunately that was something I can't remember. It's a big blur.

 

The kennel owners rushed her to the vet early in the am and my vet met them there. This was before they were even open. It started with her back leg giving out then a bit of trembling. By the time she got to the vet which is a 5 minute drive she could not walk and was in full blown seizure mode. They could not get her to stop with valium alone so she was given anesthesia. This finally stopped the seizures. this was a 4 hour ordeal.

They immediately started her on IV antibiotics when they saw her wbc count was so high. and yes, they said it was so high it wasn't even registering. My vet and A&M both felt baytril was the best option. She was given another by IV as well for the first two days but I can't remember the name. They started her on doxy too since she had erhlichia when I adopted her at the age of 2.

 

This am Avril is showing improvement. Her legs aren't crossing over as much. She can walk but does need you at her side. Basically, her horizon is tilted and her vertigo is extreme. She has what I would call moderate nystagmus. It is worse in her left eye the side she tilts her head. She is so sweet and her personality has no changes. She begs for attention by pawing, whining etc. She licked my other dogs like always when they walk up to her.

 

I do know the seizure med can cause ataxia and vertigo. However, I agree with all the vets that we have to keep her on this for now.

 

I don't know what is wrong or exactly what is the cause. and I suspect we are dealing with several things now.

 

again I am grateful for any and all good thoughts for my Avril.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Devotion

[heartdogs]

Best wishes for both of you.You will be in my thoughts.

[Batmom]

So glad you are seeing some improvement and sending prayers that it continues.

 

Please get well, baby girl!

[TheFullHouse]

Thanks for all the responses, advice and support! So greatly appreciated....

 

She has seen 5 vets so far that have specifically come to see her and many vets have been on consult. She was transfered to ER vet every night when my regular vet closed.

I boarded her where I always board my pets. She was fine the day before and up to her usual antics.

No pesticides etc were used at the place. and yes, I know I wasn't there so I don't know everything but I do know I trust these people. and frankly, she would have died without their quick action.

 

I will get a complete list of all her bloodwork in the am. I know her platelets were off too but unfortunately that was something I can't remember. It's a big blur.

 

The kennel owners rushed her to the vet early in the am and my vet met them there. This was before they were even open. It started with her back leg giving out then a bit of trembling. By the time she got to the vet which is a 5 minute drive she could not walk and was in full blown seizure mode. They could not get her to stop with valium alone so she was given anesthesia. This finally stopped the seizures. this was a 4 hour ordeal.

They immediately started her on IV antibiotics when they saw her wbc count was so high. and yes, they said it was so high it wasn't even registering. My vet and A&M both felt baytril was the best option. She was given another by IV as well for the first two days but I can't remember the name. They started her on doxy too since she had erhlichia when I adopted her at the age of 2.

 

This am Avril is showing improvement. Her legs aren't crossing over as much. She can walk but does need you at her side. Basically, her horizon is tilted and her vertigo is extreme. She has what I would call moderate nystagmus. It is worse in her left eye the side she tilts her head. She is so sweet and her personality has no changes. She begs for attention by pawing, whining etc. She licked my other dogs like always when they walk up to her.

 

I do know the seizure med can cause ataxia and vertigo. However, I agree with all the vets that we have to keep her on this for now.

 

I don't know what is wrong or exactly what is the cause. and I suspect we are dealing with several things now.

 

again I am grateful for any and all good thoughts for my Avril.

 

 

Most seizure meds will cause ataxia. I've not dealt with a dog yet that has had vertigo that severe or a head tilt because of medications but anything is possible I'm learning. They probably gave her a loading dose of seizure meds and side effects can appear because of that, although once she's stable, they may lower the dose a little.

 

It sounds like she's improving. A very severe infection can cause seizures so I'm curious to see where the infection is coming from. She's presented quite the case, hasn't she. I'm hoping and praying she continues to improve.

[MaryJane]

I'm glad that you are seeing improvement and hope that it continues.

 

The white blood cell count of 90,000 is really high and IMO might indicate a pretty severe and fast acting infection taking place. You might want to check to see if the vet checked her temperature.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Pam, read here. And here and following blog posts. (I'll spare you the worst suspense: Zephyr is still alive and kicking.)

 

But I'm agreeing with the others: elevated white cell count is indicative of infection, not stroke.

 

Oh, and if you respond to one of the blogger's latest posts, I think she'll get back to you quickly. And she posted on Greytalk for another mom with a sick dog. The thread was here: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/270695-im-a-bit-lost/

But I can't make the thread come up when I put that in the address bar.

[JJNg]

Continuing to send good thoughts that her improvement continues. I'd also consider additional tick-borne disease testing, especially given her history of Ehrlichia. TBD can cause neurologic signs as well as elevated white counts. Do you know which type of WBC was high on her bloodwork?

[hikinghounds]

Hi, I saw someone from GreyTalk had visited and then saw this post. I'm so sorry Avril is going through this. I'm Zephyr's mom, http://hikinghounds.blogspot.com , Caron. Zephyr had a lot of similar symptoms to Avril, circling, ataxia, very anxious, I could tell his head was hurting. I got him to a neurologist and had an MRI done which showed encephalitis of a non-infectious origin. He started having seizures the next morning at the neurologists and they lasted 24 hours. They gave him all the drugs too, but the seizures kept coming. It was from the inflammation and swelling in his brain. He could not stand for three days after and it took over a week, for him to recover from the inflammation, swelling, and seizures and walk normal again, actually I didn't say 100% for 2 -3 weeks,. So, the things you are seeing in Avril could definitely go away as she improves. Since Zephyr's encephalitis was non-infections, I had every possible test run for ticks, fungus, etc., it's thought to be a bad auto-immune response. The treatment for this is steroids and in cases chemotherapy. Since he was seizing so bad and nothing at all indicated infection we gave chemotherapy about 12 hours after the seizures started. The chemotherapy treatment is only given when the cause is not infectious because it lowers the bodies ability to fight infection. I saw that Avril has the elevated white blood cells that could be from infection, so the chemo might not be for her. It has worked wonderfully for Zephyr. The MRI was crucial to his diagnoses. They weren't able to do the spinal fluid (CFS) when he first came in because the inflammation and swelling was too bad, but if you can do that it gives more and even better info. Zephyr just had his follow up work and he is really close to normal now, but we're doing another dose of chemo, etc. to be safe. He was on phenobarbital when he came home, then off for about a month, and then has had to start some again because he's had a few seizures that could be from scar tissue or maybe the small amount of possible remaining inflammation. This all started in March, it's been 4 months now. I couldn't read all your posts but if you haven't been to a neurologist I would really get her in to one. I know Zephyr wouldn't be here had I not been able to get him to the neurologist. I wish you and Avril all the best. It really sounds like she is a special girl having been through so much with you.

[Busderpuddle]

I have no advice but wanted to let you know that I am praying for Avril. Hugs and good wishes to you.

[Devotion]

we got a diagnosis, Encephalitis. She has it multi focal meaning all over the brain, which is why her symptoms have been all over the place. My vet put her on the right antibiotics and other meds. she is seeing a Neurologist today. looks like she has lots of brain stem and frontal lobe involvement.

I feel a bit better knowing the road we are now traveling. Avril is not out of the words yet and is still a very sick girl.

They are still extremely concerned about seizure activity.

Her WBC is better and cells look better under the microscope but it's still not great. However, she is improving. I'm so grateful for that!

 

Still has ataxia but getting around better. Her nystagmus is still very severe. Her head tilt seems better. It doesn't appear that her head rotates backwards anymore. it was horrible to witness. We are dealing with some aspiration which is a big concern.

 

I am so thankful for all prayers and good thoughts!

 

Thank you to each and everyone of you for the stories, advice etc. I am so grateful. and to Zephyrs mom what a road we are on! and yes all the tests were performed that they did for your boy. looks like it is more common to have idiopathic like Zephyrs.

 

Her prognosis is guarded but we are here to take it day by day! Avril is a fighter....

[heartdogs]

Still keeping both of you in my thoughts & prayers.