The Trail Of Destruction Continues

[krissy]

So the saga continues with Summit.

 

In spite of getting more exercise, more mentally stimulating toys, and more training, his strange behaviour continues. I recognize that this is an unfamiliar house, with unfamiliar people in it, however I am still somewhat confused by his behaviour. We never had a single issue when we got him and walked him into an unfamiliar house with unfamiliar people (us).

 

To recap, two weeks ago Summit gnawed a huge hole in the door frame of the bedroom where he was gated. Where he had been gated for the previous 2 weeks without incident. He did it in the 10 minutes I was in the shower. I was advised to muzzle him and all would be well. It was not. He knocked down the baby gate. So I tightened the baby gate so it couldn't be knocked down. He jumped the gate and opened a door. Then, last week someone else let him out of his crate while I was at work so he could hang out, but then had to go out and instead of recrating him simply put him back in the basement (where our room is) and closed the basement door. He gnawed a small chunk out of the baseboard but it's been agreed that wasn't really Summit's fault since he was uncrated behind a closed door.

 

Today I came home to find that he had somehow managed to pull a towel out of the laundry back (it's about a foot away from his crate) into his crate and shredded it. His own blankets in his crate were completely unharmed. He had also somehow managed to move his crate back. I don't know what he was doing, but he moved the crate backwards hard enough to put dents into the drywall (yet more damage that I have to repair).

 

I am sort of at a loss. This behaviour is completely out of character, even back when we first adopted him and brought him home. He is getting an approximately 45 minute walk in the morning. This is no jaunt in the park, it's a good brisk walk. It's also very regimented. Previously I was allowing him to somewhat leisurely decide what he wanted to sniff and pee on. Now he has to be given permission to step off the sidewalk to sniff something. This keeps our walk moving along at a good clip. After work I take him out for about half an hour to 45 minutes in the full heat. Again, this is a good paced walk. I try to take him somewhere interesting for a longer walk if I'm not on call. The last outing of the evening is sometimes just a turnout into the backyard, otherwise it's a more casual 20 minute walk. Depends on how tired I am. I have also been teaching him new tricks and working on old ones. I try to get in about 15 minutes of training in a day but it does depend on how much else is going on. The rest of his "being left behind" routine is exactly the same as it would be at home. Radio, kong, etc.

 

I am frustrated and upset. I don't really know why he's behaving like this, and I find it hard to believe that this out of character behaviour continues in spite of increased exercise and mental stimulation. I am going to spend tonight doing some alone training I guess. Crating him and going to do the things I need to do, letting him out for a bit, and then crating while I do some other errand or task.

 

I need advice of something I can do beyond what I am already doing which to the best of my knowledge is basically everything I always tell others with new dogs with anxiety to do. I can't have him continuing to destroy things and being so upset.

[robinw]

Has he been to the vet? Had blood work done? Could something be physically wrong with him? Could something have happened to frighten him? Sometimes it could be the littlest thing, something that we wouldn't even think of.

[Guest june]

My first thought was "if this were a friend of mine I'd offer to take care of him" and then, "why not?" So I checked to see where you live, but Ontario is quite a way from central Illinois. So . . . Is there anyone who might be willing to help you out and take care of him for a while? How about your rescue? I know our rescue will help our adopters in situations like this.

 

I am so sorry you both are going through this. I can tell from your posts both of you are very frustrated. I'm sure this change is hard for you and you at least understand why the changes are happening. Your poor boy only knows that he is unhappy and is doing his best to tell you. Unfortunately, his way of communicating this to you is adding to your stress and frustration.

 

I wish I had more advice for you, but you're right you have done all the recommended things. I hope you find a solution soon because it sounds like you are reaching a breaking point.

 

Give your boy a big hug.

Sending prayers that you find a solution good for both of you.

june

[Batmom]

Other people and goings-on in the house that he can't see or get to. That will drive most dogs absolutely nuts -- one of the toughest situations to live with.

 

Perhaps there is someone in your group who could foster him for you, for a bit?

[krissy]

Robin - No, I don't think anything is physically/medically wrong with him. He is being treated for hookworm but having been through that with our foster boy previously I don't find that it changes behaviour. He had bloodwork done in December and more bloodwork and urinalysis done in February. This did all start after the May 2-4 weekend. We discovered that he is deathly afraid of fireworks. I suppose that COULD be a trigger, but I honestly think it's more of a coincidence because aside from the destruction he has been great.

 

June - It's not exactly a breaking point in terms of anything drastic like having to rehome him or anything like that, it's just that I'm staying with a family that has given me a room and invited me into their home out of the kindness of their hearts. I do pay them a small rent, but it's less than half what I would pay anywhere else and they're always inviting me to eat with them, letting me steal condiments and other little things that would be a pain for me to have to buy... so they're really not making any money off me. So yes, it's very stressful to have my dog destroying their house. It's also stressful because it means that instead of relaxing or studying during my time off I'm going to be helping my BF fix the damage... instead of spending time together doing something more enjoyable (like walking the dog or watching a movie together) when we only get to see each other once a week for 2 months. And I'm leaving for 3 weeks in Ohio after this too. To live with another kind person who isn't charging us, and not seeing my BF for the entire time. And it's upsetting because Summit's obviously not happy about something but I can't quite put my finger on it. It's like SA, except that when I AM home and he's NOT in his crate... he's almost always sleeping somewhere where I'm not. It's not like he's glued to me, it's not like he's anxious that I'm gone. I honestly think he's just upset about not getting to sleep in his favourite spot... which for whatever reason is upstairs on the carpet by the living room window. Baffles me considering he's allowed on my bed downstairs and it's way comfier. And my adoption group is definitely NOT an option. I may contact the group we fostered for though because they were very helpful when we had our foster boy, it was just a weird, convoluted twist of fate that we ended up not adopting from them in the end.

[Yamaha_gurl]

Perhaps it's a different radio station that he doesn't like?!?! I'm assuming a bone/chew is a no no in the crate/unsupervised.

[Batmom]

I would contact whatever group you're comfortable with. Or even see if groups local to where you are now have anyone who could provide daycare for a small fee. Would save you the cost of repairs, a lot of stress, and potential serious injury if Summit is trying to break out of his crate, through baby gates, etc.

[robinw]

I would contact whatever group you're comfortable with. Or even see if groups local to where you are now have anyone who could provide daycare for a small fee. Would save you the cost of repairs, a lot of stress, and potential serious injury if Summit is trying to break out of his crate, through baby gates, etc.

Good idea. Maybe you can contact a local group. Maybe somebody would be willing to provide daycare for a nominal fee. How is he with cats?

[MaryJane]

Other people and goings-on in the house that he can't see or get to. That will drive most dogs absolutely nuts -- one of the toughest situations to live with.

 

Perhaps there is someone in your group who could foster him for you, for a bit?

 

I think that this is the problem. If he is hearing people in the house he probably thinks that it is you and it is driving him nuts not being able to get to you.

[Fostr_Mom]

Sorry, no advice. But I had a similar problem when I first adopted Kyle. My son & his wife were just out of the military and living with us. They had the finished basement and worked nights, we worked days. Kyle could hear them while we were gone and started trying to chew his way out of the crate. They tried letting him out once in a while, but didn't really want to watch him. So I muddled through for about a month 1/2 until they found their own place. He settled down after that, and I didn't need to crate him any more. I also started fostering and I think having a companion really did wonders for him.

[45MPHK9]

Other people and goings-on in the house that he can't see or get to. That will drive most dogs absolutely nuts -- one of the toughest situations to live with.

 

This.

[Guest iconsmum]

Is this your first dog, I'm guessing? You're looking at STRESS.

You've put him in a new house, locked him up, he's reasonably socialized, and there're other people in the house that he knows are there, and they don't want him around...lousy dog vibes right from the start. You keep coming and going, coming and going and, forgive me, but from your tone, you're ticked at him a lot = more stress for the dog. He's not happy, and unless you change his situation he's gonna stay unhappy. Just because you expect him to be fine, the perfect dog, doesn't mean he can get there. It would have been a good idea to talk to someone with a bit of dog experience, like maybe a trainer, to give you some idea as to how to park a dog for a few months without making him miserable. Sorry to probably sound harsh here, but from you I consistently hear a lot of petulance and blame toward a dog that's embarrassing you in a situation YOU created for him....

 

ETA: chewing, barking, destructive behaviour is a dog's way of trying to cope with stress when his nerves are giving out on him - you can go on about "alone training" till your eyes roll back in your head, but you need to find someone to keep him for you for the duration in a house that wants him so he gets to have a life too.

[krissy]

Is this your first dog, I'm guessing? You're looking at STRESS.

You've put him in a new house, locked him up, he's reasonably socialized, and there're other people in the house that he knows are there, and they don't want him around...lousy dog vibes right from the start. You keep coming and going, coming and going and, forgive me, but from your tone, you're ticked at him a lot = more stress for the dog. He's not happy, and unless you change his situation he's gonna stay unhappy. Just because you expect him to be fine, the perfect dog, doesn't mean he can get there. It would have been a good idea to talk to someone with a bit of dog experience, like maybe a trainer, to give you some idea as to how to park a dog for a few months without making him miserable. Sorry to probably sound harsh here, but from you I consistently hear a lot of petulance and blame toward a dog that's embarrassing you in a situation YOU created for him....

 

ETA: chewing, barking, destructive behaviour is a dog's way of trying to cope with stress when his nerves are giving out on him - you can go on about "alone training" till your eyes roll back in your head, but you need to find someone to keep him for you for the duration in a house that wants him so he gets to have a life too.

 

It's not that they don't want him around. It's that they're in and out. They have an 8 year old daughter with after school activities. The chewing on the baseboard was the result of the husband letting Summit out while I was at work so that the dog didn't have to be in his crate away from the action, but then didn't crate him again when he went out and just closed the door instead. He listens to me exceptionally well, but not so much to people he doesn't know very well, so re-crating him is probably easier said than done... not that he tried to re-crate him.

 

I am not ticked with him. I'm not mad at him at all. I have a fairly good understanding of dog behaviour. However, I am frustrated that nothing is helping. Exercising him until he's tired should improve the situation. Training and mental stimulation should improve the situation. I'm not saying completely correct it, but it should have beneficial effects. It hasn't.

 

Putting him somewhere else isn't really an option even if I'd like it to be. I can send him back to live with my BF in our home which is familiar. But he'll also only get two short walks a day and breakfast and dinner. My BF doesn't look after the animals. I do. As it is he's looking after the 3 rabbits, and it's almost more than he can handle. If I throw the dog back to him all 4 are going to end up getting minimal care. The BF means well, but he's just not the caregiver for the pets.

 

I don't know where you keep getting the idea that I'm blaming the dog. I don't blame the dog. I've said multiple times that I get that it's an awkward situation for him. My point is that regardless, having seen him in other not so ideal situations, I find the behaviour out of character. I'm stressed out by it, yes. I'd like you to find one person who is not stressed out by their dog being upset and damaging property that is not theirs. My trainer knew I was travelling with him this summer and knowing him and knowing me she didn't think there would be any issues, honestly, neither did I. And there weren't, for 2 weeks. So you go right on ahead and think I'm ticked with the dog since that's clearly the opinion you want to have. As far as I know, going to the bathroom and crying because I'm frustrated, then wiping away the tears and taking my dog for a nice, long walk followed by a training session and his dinner is far from being ticked off with the dog. Being ticked off at the dog is yelling at him in his crate which he wouldn't understand. You can pretend to know me and know my dog all you want, but, unless you stalk us, I'm betting you don't. At least other people have offered constructive suggestions instead of just blaming me for things that are speculation. Nothing you've said is at all helpful to our situation.

[Guest iconsmum]

whatever

[JAJ2010]

Since this is such a temp situation i still think the easiest solution would be to network to find him either temp foster care or a day care. If you were coseby I would offer to take him in a heart beat.

 

Your trying harder to make this work than I would have! The poor guy is confused. And you never really know what goes on when your not at home. Kid temper tantrums, screaming, yelling, etc. That just might be part of their normal household. My critters would react badly to that! We live a very quiet peaceful life here.

 

Since this is such a temp situation i still think the easiest solution would be to network to find him either temp foster care or a day care. If you were coseby I would offer to take him in a heart beat.

 

Your trying harder to make this work than I would have! The poor guy is confused. And you never really know what goes on when your not at home. Kid temper tantrums, screaming, yelling, etc. That just might be part of their normal household. My critters would react badly to that! We live a very quiet peaceful life here.

[Guest Gideon]

We went through some pretty extreme separation anxiety with Duke. I know what you are going through. He chewed through walls, dented up doorknobs, broke out of a metal crate early on and then some.

 

We wound up getting one of those nicer muzzles with the leather strip. He hated it at first but then accepted it. Once he accepted it, it became the cue to settle down and relax, that we'd be back.

 

In all honesty, nothing truly worked to solve his anxiety until we got a second greyhound. But, even then, if we went out without Duke, he'd wreck something. Usually the front door area.

 

There were all sorts of recommendations for dap diffusers, alone training, clomicalm, all sorts of stuff. But he was a high strung kind of alpha dog and nothing worked except for the company of another dog and people staying with him.

 

Shoot, he was in a double fenced turn out pen while being boarded and he got through both fences and the outer chain link fence to find a blanket and hustle it over to another dog he befriended.

 

Ah, Duke.

[Guest Audeamus]

Have you checked out the stickie at the top of the Everything about Greyhounds for greysitters in the areas you're going to be travelling to? Greyhound people tend to be pretty awesome and hopefully someone could help you with Summit, so that he wouldn't have the same type of oppurtunity to destroy things.

About 2 years in with Gir, when we had worked through a few of his more skittish blips, I came back from a roadtrip for work, walked him, fed him and then had shower. In the time it took for a shower he had chewed a off a corner of a wall.... You're doing a great job with the situation in you're in and it will get better.

[krissy]

Have you checked out the stickie at the top of the Everything about Greyhounds for greysitters in the areas you're going to be travelling to? Greyhound people tend to be pretty awesome and hopefully someone could help you with Summit, so that he wouldn't have the same type of oppurtunity to destroy things.

About 2 years in with Gir, when we had worked through a few of his more skittish blips, I came back from a roadtrip for work, walked him, fed him and then had shower. In the time it took for a shower he had chewed a off a corner of a wall.... You're doing a great job with the situation in you're in and it will get better.

 

I can't do multiquotes on the Mac, but in response to the last 3 posters, not just Audeamus....

 

There are supposedly quite a few greys in the town I'm in right now. The group we adopted from is probably half an hour away or less. Unfortunately I posted on the adoption group's forum and no one in the area seems to be on the forum. I have met 2 greyhounds here that have come in to the clinic. The first one had just been adopted 4 days earlier and her mom is the choir director of the choir the little girl I live with is in... so she has her own young child and I doubt their household would be any less crazy. Plus a fresh off the track dog. The other dog we met was older and calm and would probably make a good companion for Summit... however the owner didn't seem horribly interested in even having a playdate.

 

The beagle puppy we live with goes to doggy daycare a few times a week and at first the family offered to drop Summit off as well, but now a couple weeks in having seen how he interacts with the puppy they don't think he'd really enjoy it which is what I had said originally. He gets along famously with the puppy... he is extremely tolerant of her annoying habits, but he rarely really plays with her. And having had playdates for him with a few big dogs owned by friends, I know he doesn't play well with other large dogs. He gets very defensive and starts getting snarky. We are going to an obedience class tomorrow night. The place also does daycare so I'm going to see if their set up is better and more conducive for him. I don't know if it's possible for him to be in with the smaller dogs only and if there is some way that he can get away to go sleep without getting jumped on. Not really sure, so we'll find out tomorrow.

 

As for today... couldn't take him for a long walk this AM because of the bad weather (thunder and lightening) and was barely able to get him to go do his business (he didn't want to go, not that I didn't want to take him). I'm going to leave him with the shirt I've slept in for the last week. I don't really care about the shirt but I am still hoping he won't shred it. I'm hoping having my scent around will be reassuring to him. Today is my long day too of course. I intend to take him back to work with me in the evening, but he'll still have to be in a kennel. Last week I let him sleep on a blanket while I taught the kids, but this week my boss is back and I doubt he'd go for that.

[cleptogrey]

this sounds way to familiar. a friend who has since moved away had a female who chewed the banister, moulding and was crazy destructive .....when she was spooked by the noise of the other family in the building! my friend moved from the top floor apt to the basement apt. and it was even worse. her female figured out how to open the door and would take herself out for a walk. i know since i used to pick up up at a kind indiviual's house who recognized the dog and took her in and called the #s on the tag. then the dog was muzzled so she couldn't unlock the door and she broke the window in the door to get out. what a bloody mess. the only time she was relaxed was when she hung out with my calm female grey. (the dog's owner shared an apt. w/ a roomate and a nice sweet good sized mutt.) at one point the female grey was dropped off at my home before the owner went to work. we couldn't crate her- she broke out, she just hung out in the bed next to our grey.

 

this poor dog has never been happy away from the pack. she has jumped out of windows and now is on prozac as a last resouce. training,calming harp music, tv on to keep her company, behavior mod., herbs have all been tried with no success. with people she was a sweet as can be, even a registered therapy dog! but by herself....a terror, since she was sooooo uncomfortable w/ the world around her.

[GeorgeofNE]

Other people and goings-on in the house that he can't see or get to. That will drive most dogs absolutely nuts -- one of the toughest situations to live with.

 

Perhaps there is someone in your group who could foster him for you, for a bit?

 

 

George would go totally ballistic if he were shut in the basement and he could hear people and another dog above him. And that wouldn't be "out of character" because his routine now is that he's loose in his own home on the top floor and he can move about freely and see anything that might be going on outside in the condo parking lot. I assure you, if I were to lock him up in ANY room and have someone going about their business (a plumber, let's say) it would be a totally different story.

 

I'm not sure I understand why your landlord/friend or whatever needs you to keep him confined in the basement when they already have a dog and presumably LIKE dogs.

[Guest Liz_in_PA]

Could I chime in that this may very well be temporary (as long as your assignment)? We found out, long after we got Dash, that he bounced from a previous home for eating a door frame. He's never tried that here--but we've also never closed him in a room--no need to do it.

 

So, if you can survive this time, and your life returns to normal, he'll go back to normal. It's just making it through the next few weeks. Maybe you should consider a short term fostering?

[robinw]

Leiden, do you live in Guelph? I live in Kitchener, but if Summit is cat safe, I'd be happy to let him hang out here on the days that I work from home, which I do a lot. Treasure is lonely and would love the company.

[krissy]

Other people and goings-on in the house that he can't see or get to. That will drive most dogs absolutely nuts -- one of the toughest situations to live with.

 

Perhaps there is someone in your group who could foster him for you, for a bit?

 

 

George would go totally ballistic if he were shut in the basement and he could hear people and another dog above him. And that wouldn't be "out of character" because his routine now is that he's loose in his own home on the top floor and he can move about freely and see anything that might be going on outside in the condo parking lot. I assure you, if I were to lock him up in ANY room and have someone going about their business (a plumber, let's say) it would be a totally different story.

 

I'm not sure I understand why your landlord/friend or whatever needs you to keep him confined in the basement when they already have a dog and presumably LIKE dogs.

 

They do like dogs, however their own dog is crated or at doggy daycare when they are not home, and considering Summit has eaten a doorframe I can see why they might not trust that he would be fine if left loose. On top of that is the fact that they have an 8 year old and other kids sometimes come by. They often accidentally don't make sure the screen door clicks into place behind them. The beagle has already taken herself for a couple of walks. Fortunately, Summit has not as he doesn't jump up on the screen door, and he's got good recall... but still, I would be nervous about that.

 

There is no one near by that I know of. And in that case I would probably just send him home to my BF to be in our own home, albeit getting minimal walks and no training.

 

Liz - I'm sure this is temporary. From what I can tell when I get the odd weekend to go home he is fine. We gate him into his room as usual, although I have to say that we don't entirely trust him now and this weekend when we went out for dinner we did muzzle him. We went through a long, hard battle with our landlord to get a dog... I can't risk him destroying our own apartment. But that said he would probably have been fine without the muzzle and once we get home and things go back to normal the muzzle will likely disappear. Unfortunately this summer is kind of crazy. I've got 4 more weeks here... a week at home, 3 weeks in Ohio, a week at home, then vacation in Sault Ste. Marie (BF's cousin is getting married). So if he's not adjusting we may have to figure something out for him for other absences, though I'm not entirely sure what that would be just yet.

[greytpups]

Krissy, can your boyfriend take care of him while you're interning? You might also consider Robin's offer.

 

 

[Guest Swifthounds]

There is no one near by that I know of. And in that case I would probably just send him home to my BF to be in our own home, albeit getting minimal walks and no training.

 

If he wasn't exhibiting this behavior at home, this might be your best option. Even without you and a few perks, home is a safe place for mist dogs. Maybe he wouldn't get the training, but certainly the BF can walk him and look after him.

 

Liz - I'm sure this is temporary. From what I can tell when I get the odd weekend to go home he is fine. We gate him into his room as usual, although I have to say that we don't entirely trust him now and this weekend when we went out for dinner we did muzzle him. We went through a long, hard battle with our landlord to get a dog... I can't risk him destroying our own apartment. But that said he would probably have been fine without the muzzle and once we get home and things go back to normal the muzzle will likely disappear. Unfortunately this summer is kind of crazy. I've got 4 more weeks here... a week at home, 3 weeks in Ohio, a week at home, then vacation in Sault Ste. Marie (BF's cousin is getting married). So if he's not adjusting we may have to figure something out for him for other absences, though I'm not entirely sure what that would be just yet.

 

I would start looking now for a dogsitter.