Constant Lip Licking Is Making Me Nuts !

[Busderpuddle]

Ruby has started to lick her lips at all hours of the day and night. She has access to fresh clean water in and out, I brush her teeth every day and her food has not changed. I am assuming this is the Prozac that she is on but I can't STAND IT all day long !!! She even wakes me up in the night licking. This is just her mouth, she is not licking her feet or body at all.

Any suggestions ? I am seriously considering moving her to another room to sleep in but then I think she will whine and howl.

[Walliered]

Prozac was making my hound act weird, too. The vet stopped the Prozac and started him on Valium..my dog is a freak when it comes to thunderstorms. I read that lip licking can be a sign of nausea.

[Busderpuddle]

I thought the Prozac was making Ruby nuts too but when I started to wean her off of it, she started all kinds of new phobias so the vet suggested leaving her on it a while. She became afraid of some balloons, the kitchen water faucet, one of her food dishes, etc.....it was awful. Those behaviors seem a bit better but I just need to figure out the lip smacking. She is eating well. If it is nausea, is there anything i can give her for that ?

[Guest zombrie]

I was going to say nausea, Doolin does that when he has his tummy episodes and when he gets carsick. Manuka honey heals it every time. I've been sick the past few days, swallowing a lot of gunk making my tum not feel good and the manuka honey made me feel so much better, it totally settles the stomach

Edited April 16, 2011 by zombrie

[Houndtime]

I was going to say nausea, Doolin does that when he has his tummy episodes and when he gets carsick. Manuka honey heals it every time. I've been sick the past few days, swallowing a lot of gunk making my tum not feel good and the manuka honey made me feel so much better, it totally settles the stomach

[/quote

 

Where do you get this honey?

[DaisyDoodle]

Lip-licking is a "calming sign". It can be dog's way of indicating that it is trying to calm the situation. Are you feeling stressed?

 

Is there wretching also? It could be nausea also.

 

Finally, in humans, some psycho-active meds cause a very bothersome side-effect called Tardive Dyskinesia, which involves tongue thrusting. It can become permanent even after the drug is discontinued. I would urge you to contact your vet &/or Ohio State to see if this is possibly what is going on.

 

Please let us know what you find out.

[krissn333]

This is somewhat random, but, have you had a full thyroid panel done on her? Many years ago we had a dog that was adopted out and started having a lot of somewhat irrational fears along with separation anxiety. The vet put him on amitryptaline and it just made him worse. It turns out that he actually needed thyroid supplementation. Once they got him off of the amitryptaline and regulated on his thyroid meds, he was a totally different dog - no more irrational fears, no more separation anxiety.

[greyhead]

Your vet already suggested thyroid supplementation, IIRC. Did it ever get done? I remember you checked here on GT for opinions about it.

[Busderpuddle]

Yes, my vet did suggest thyroid meds but after I sent him the "normals" for greys, and he consulted with some other vets, he said he wanted to hold off on the thyroid. He suggested leaving her on the Prozac for a while longer to see if that would calm her "fears" of the world. Like I said earlier, when weaning her off the Prozac, she started being afraid of all sorts of things that had never bothered her before. I feel like my poor girl is a wreck.

She has had no wretching or vomiting at all and usually eats well. Her S.A. is worse than ever however and the Prozac doesn't seem to be working as far as that goes. I am about at my wits end honestly, and yes, I am very stressed.

I have never heard about that honey but will look in to it. Where do you buy it ? How much would you give a 60 lb dog ?

[greytlucy]

Your stress is only adding to hers. You probably know this. It's understandable to be stressed dealing with a dog with anxiety issues. You end up playing off each other and neither of you ends up relaxed.

 

It sounds like your vet is taking a trial and error approach. At this point, I'd consider seeing a board certified behavorial vet. They really understand these issues better than your typical clinical vet and can help you both medically and behaviorally work through the issues. Generally finding a DACVB vet isn't easy but looks like you are fortunate to have two in Oregon: http://www.dacvb.org/resources/find/

[Busderpuddle]

I know my stress over her and not having a job (and probably losing our home) is not helping Ruby. I just don't know how to change that right now and am trying to do what is suggested by the professionals. As far as seeing a behaviorist for her, my vet also suggested that but the one he suggested charges $800+ for a consultation and I just can't afford it. Wish I could but it is just not possible at the moment.

Ruby and I take a lot of walks and bike rides to help us both with the anxiety. Had another job interview last week and hoping and praying I get it. If I do, as soon as I can get the house caught up, I will arrange for her to see the specialist.

[greyhead]

The cheapest, fastest approach at this point would be to go ahead and try the thyroid, I'd think. You'll see results fairly fast, and it may help her wean off the Prozac more easily. Just my opinion, but I have two hypothyroid greyhounds, I'm hypothyroid myself, and I've spent a lot of time studying up on it. No sense having you and your girl going nuts together! You could call your vet and see if he's willing to give it a shot now.

[mychip1]

I wish you the best on all fronts......Thinking of you and your baby!

[Busderpuddle]

greyhead-what kind of signs were you seeing in your greyhounds that are hypothyroid ? Ruby's anxiety is increasing so much and her phobias are increasing daily. Did yours have anxiety issues also ? I was half done with the weaning off of the Prozac when the vet called and said he had talked to some of his contacts and he said he thought the Prozac was maybe helping. I felt it was making her worse. Now that she has been on it another week at full dose, she trembles pretty much all the time, frantically circles at times and lip smacks.

I will talk to the vet Monday. Just wondering what you noticed ?

[Walliered]

I just ordered the honey from Wedderspoon Organic. I bought the Manuka +16 and it cost $29.95 plus $4.00 shipping. It came about 4 days after I ordered it. I have not used it on the dogs yet. Listen, I took my dog completely off of Prozac because of the crazy things it was doing to him. Vet put mine on Valium..well, today I followed her directions and gave him 2 pills that are 10mg each...Let me tell you that I will not ever do that again!! He was completely freaked out and could not even hold his balance..he had that "wild" eye look and had the big D..Also, tonight he is VERY hungry after eating a regular evening meal...I will not give him 20mg again. He is finally laying down and acting sort of normal and it has been 7 hours since he had it. Try the honey, I know I am.

[Walliered]

One more thing..I know that you will get all kind of advice about your grey, but I also know that I spent a pile of money when I got my first grey and it did not fix anything. If I had it to do over, I would just step out of the box and try the simple and cheap things first before paying rediculous amounts of money on a specialist. My dogs have pretty well calmed down. I only have problems with one when we have a thunderstorm. Most of the problems were from the track diet (in my humble opionion). And little by little everything has settled down. If you want to PM me, please do and I will go into more detail..Best of everything to you about your interview.

[Busderpuddle]

Mychip1-Thank you !

Walliered-do you give 10 mg of Valium every day? I think the Prozac is making her crazy too but she seems even crazier when off of it. I don't know what to do. I really want to find her some help. Will look in to that honey. I have never heard of it. Is it safe to give to a dog daily ? I tried xanax but it didn't do a thing.

[Walliered]

Please e-mail me at Walliered@aol.com Thanks, Nan

[krissn333]

I think if she is going to stop the Prozac she has to be weaned off of it. I don't think that she should have such issues if the Prozac was helping. Sorry you're going through this - it is so stressful!

 

In response to your question about symptoms...the dog I mentioned didn't show any of the "classic" signs of hypothyroidism (hair loss, weight gain, etc.), he was just basically a total freak - afraid of everything and trembling all the time.

 

Ace really didn't show classic symptoms either - the biggest thing I noticed was her extreme irritability.

[Busderpuddle]

That sounds like Ruby...........a total freak and trembling all the time. She is a good weight and her coat looks great. Other than that, she is a wreck.

[4My2Greys]

This is a far reach, but have you tried any of the music CD's made to calm dogs? I have the Canine Lullabies CD that I would happily send to you to see if it would help.

[Busderpuddle]

I have not tried any CD's but have tried the TV, Country, Rock , Classical music and talk radio.......None of it seemed to help.

I also tried all the OTC remedies I could find along with the calming pheromone plug-in, spray & collar. We tried colmicalm, xanax, and now the Prozac. It is now escalating to where she shakes most of the time. So sad. I just wish I could find that magic thing. I am wondering if another grey would help her ? The vet doesn't think it would make a difference. I can't afford another one right now anyway but she is really unhappy. Today on her last walk she was acting like she was afraid of the parked cars in the driveways. She was cowering before each one and I was having to pull her along. That was totally new. I also have a tranquilizer that I have tried a couple of days with no results. I was supposed to start with 1/2 and can work up to 2 1/2 a day. I am afraid to try more than the 1/2.

[4My2Greys]

Canine Lullabies are different than what you would hear on the radio. They are lullabies with a heartbeat in the background designed to calm and relax dogs. I'm not saying it would magically fix her problem, but it has helped a lot of dog and might help ease the tension she feels. Check out the website and read the testimonials. http://www.caninelullabies.com

 

Like I said I would be happy to send you my copy to use and keep as long as it helps her.

[JJNg]

I would recommend talking to your vet about the lip licking. It may be due to the Prozac, but it would not be an expected side effect, and not something you should just try to put up with. It could also be unrelated to the Prozac. As others mentioned, it can be a sign of nausea, although if she has a good appetite even while she's lip licking, that's probably unlikely. It is also a calming signal, as Donna mentioned, but I've never seen a dog use calming signals constantly. Calming signals are usually only seen in early or mild stress, and a dog who is constantly anxious would be more likely to resort to other stress responses. I have also seen lip licking in dogs whose incisors (front teeth) are bothering them - such as a painful tooth, or something stuck between the teeth.

 

I may have missed some of Ruby's history here, but I believe you initially started her on meds for separation anxiety? Was she having other issues at the time, or have the new problems started since trying meds? What is her daily routine - does she have any times when she is calm and relaxed?

 

How long have you had her, and what have you done in terms of training and behavior modification to try to help with her anxieties? Is your vet providing any guidance in this area? I know you've mentioned alone training and that it didn't work. Can you describe exactly what you tried, and how she responded?

 

I was half done with the weaning off of the Prozac when the vet called and said he had talked to some of his contacts and he said he thought the Prozac was maybe helping. I felt it was making her worse.

What exactly made your vet think the Prozac might be helping?? Based on what you've written, I'd personally be getting her off the Prozac and trying something different.

 

Consulting with a veterinary behaviorist would be a good idea. I see that you're in Oregon. A good friend of mine is in the Portland area, and her fees may be more reasonable than the behaviorist your vet suggested. She is not a board certified veterinary behaviorist, but is very competent and I would recommend her highly. She's a veterinarian with a PhD in animal behavior and a strong positive training background. Her PhD dissertation was on separation anxiety. Here's her website: Synergy Behavior Solutions

[Batmom]

I would get her dried out from all meds and reassess. It sounds like the meds aren't helping and may be making her worse.