So Tell Me About Thyroid Stuff

[kamsmom]

I recently had Steak into the vet for seizures. This last week they sent off for blood work. His T4 is .6 and the vet says it needs to be between 1 and 4. So he is also sending off for a free T4... not free to me tho

 

Anyway, he says it probably has nothing to do with the seizures but that many seizure dogs are hypothyroid but that hypothyroid dogs aren't necessarily seizure dogs. Are you still with me? Any way, tell me what I need to know

[ZoomDoggy]

My Tipper had very mild seizures in his last couple of years of life. In his final year, he became hypothyroid and started the meds. Interestingly, he was virtually seizure-free from then on.

 

Just my anecdotal experience.

[TheFullHouse]

Gee is on thyroid meds and has never had a seizure but there are some dogs who are suffering from seizure and low thyroid and starting them on meds will stop the seizures. I don't know the percentages though. Most seizure dogs that I know of have normal thyroid function. Saint has normal thyroid function. There may be some others here on GT whose pups do suffer seizures with a low thyroid though. You may find out that when the second test comes back he may be within the normal thyroid levels.

[Guest mcsheltie]

You cannot Dx hypothyroid on a free T4 test. You need to do a full panel and have it sent to MSU or Dr Dodds.

[kamsmom]

Full panel of what?

 

Why would MSU and Dr Dodds be the only ones to diagnose it? Just curious...

[Batmom]

You really want a premium MSU panel, which determines "free T4 by equilibrium dialysis." This is the gold standard and the reference method for measuring T4. A few of the other reference labs may also use it now; Dr. Dodds does not. People keep trying to come up with faster, simpler ways of measuring T4 accurately, and so far none of them work for squat. (Just been researching this for one of my classes.)

 

Particularly if your dog is taking meds such as phenobarbitol, you need the equilibrium dialysis method. Anything else is going to be way inaccurate.

 

 

P.S. The reason you need a panel is that -1- in a sighthound, you really want a TSH measure, too, which many labs don't do; and -2- you need that free T4 by equilibrium dialysis. Did I mention you wanted free T4 by equilibrium dialysis? The trouble with measuring T4 is, it isn't just hanging around in an available state like red blood cells or certain other blood/serum components. Most of it is protein-bound. So it's hard to find ......

 

MSU FAQs: http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/Sections/Endocrinology/Thyroid_Canine.php

Edited February 28, 2011 by Batmom

[Guest mcsheltie]

Full panel of what?

 

Why would MSU and Dr Dodds be the only ones to diagnose it? Just curious...

Full thyroid panel. As Batmom said, none of the other labs have the technology that MSU has. They also take into account the breed of the dog and health problems when interpreting the results.

[GeorgeofNE]

I know nothing about seizures, but my last dog AND my parents dog both had/have thyroid problems--which are actually easily controlled with pills that are not very expensive.

 

Soloxine is what they take.

 

Kramer had a very sudden appearance of thyroid issues but very, very obvious. His coat got very coarse and started to fall out,and he gained weight.

 

Davy (my parents dog) had areas of fur that were very coarse and patchy.

 

The vet typically starts with a typical dose, and then checks the levels fairly frequently the first year, then annually. I would say in the grand scheme of things, thyroid is really no big deal to deal with!

 

FYI, my mother had her thyroid removed! She also takes pills and is just fine!

 

I have always thought it bizarre that in one family, two dogs of different breeds living in different places had the exact same problem, and that my mother had a tumor on her thyroid. Weird, huh?

[kamsmom]

Ok... in reading the labs it is a free T4 by equilibrium dialysis that he is wanting to do next. It is very clearly typed on the bottom of the labs he sent me today that the lab recommended that as the next step with those very words.

 

I will ask about the full panel for thyroid in my next call.

[kamsmom]

The vet asked me if he was showing any symptoms. I said, "like what?" to which he says, "is he more tiresome than the others, is he mentally dull, is his hair coarse..." Steak isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but I would never call him mentally dull

 

He is lazy, but no more than the others, his hair is coarser but not terrible... he isn't loosing any hair.

 

This is all interesting.

[Batmom]

We use the premium 20011 on this form; gotta check the "premium" box to get equilibrium dialysis. We also check the "Interpretation" box (right above clinic name/address); I think it costs an extra $5 now. http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/Submittal_Forms/AD.ADM.FORM.007.pdf

[Guest mcsheltie]

The vet asked me if he was showing any symptoms. I said, "like what?" to which he says, "is he more tiresome than the others, is he mentally dull, is his hair coarse..." Steak isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but I would never call him mentally dull

 

He is lazy, but no more than the others, his hair is coarser but not terrible... he isn't loosing any hair.

 

This is all interesting.

Interesting and a big PITA! Hypo-T is like so many other disorders that can present with many different symptoms. Many of the symptoms that present in other breeds are normal breed characteristics for a GH. It is also one that you do not want to treat unless they are sure he is hypo. Thyroid medicine given to a dog with a normal thyroid can have bad consequences.

 

Ask where he intends to send the blood draw. Request MSU. They know Greyhounds there.

[kudzu]

When we have had a "full thyroid panel" run it usually includes tests for the following: T4, fT4, T3, fT3, thyroid antibodies, TSH. I would not feel comfortable starting my Grey on supplementation without this. I do not ask for the vet to do anything special as far as where to send the sample. They use IDEXX who refers this out to MSU anyway & yes the fT4 results indicate equilibrium dialysis.

 

Hoping the best for Steak.

Edited February 28, 2011 by kudzu

[Guest budsmom]

Another vote for MSU here, and have them also do the analysis of the results based on the dog's breed. MSU is the gold standard in canine thyroid testing.

[RobinM]

Also agree to have the full panel done by MSU, 2 of my 5 dogs are hypothyroid. Chloe has had head tremors in the past. definitely something neurological going on.

[inugrey]

I recently opted to not even do the full panel for Salem. She has no symptoms except for being a greyhound and her T4 was at .2 Your decision, but I felt like there is nothing in her body or behavior to make me suspect a problem. I'm also crazy about over medicating when an animal has no symptoms, again that's just me and my decision.

 

I'm sure most of us can talk your ear off about thyroid on Friday

[KF_in_Georgia]

Levothyroxine is the generic thyroid med; Soloxine is the brand that experts (like Dr Dodds) actually do recommend. I order from Omaha Vaccine. Prices vary by the dosage of the pill and the quantity ordered, but the most expensive size on that page is still only about $.16/pill. My vet retests once a year before he'll renew the prescription.

 

The pills are teeny tiny little blue things. To make sure the pills get into my dogs--rather than flicked across the room by an agile tongue--I fold each dogs pill(s) (Soloxine and other meds) inside a quarter-slice of cheese. The dogs gulp them down.

 

Dr Dodds, I think, recommends giving the pills separately from meals. My vet disagrees. Whichever way you decide, keep in mind that the meds seem to reach maximum effectiveness (or maximum presence in the bloodstream) four to six hours after they're given. So if you do start the meds, on any future blood test, try to time Steak's pills for about 5 hours before blood will be drawn. I've been known to take pills-in-cheese upstairs to bed with us at night and set an alarm for 3 am. Wake up, feed pills and cookies, rollover and go back to sleep until time to get up for an 8 am vet appointment. (Obviously, I'd prefer a noon vet appointment when I can swing it. )

[krissn333]

Ace had a few episodes that we are pretty sure were small seizures. When I took her to our vet, the first thing he wanted to do was check her thyroid. It was a bit low and he put her on .6s to begin. We later had to bump her up to .8s. No odd episodes since...and that was several years ago now.

 

We did everything through MSU - they really know their stuff and understand greyhound levels

 

ETA she takes Soloxine...she was on a generic for a while and I wasn't thrilled with the quality of the tablets (they were powdery and practically fell apart in your hand - we tried a couple of bottles just to be sure that it wasn't just a bad bottle), and I had read that many vets recommended using the name brand, so we switched and I've been much happier with those

Edited March 1, 2011 by krissn333

[Guest dwolfe711]

I'm reading this thread with interest as our 10yo Mercedes had several episodes (we witnessed three) which we identified as mini-seizures over about a three-month period. After the third one a few weeks ago we took her to our vet and she did a blood panel which was all good except her thyroid which was .2 - we now have her on soloxine - she is more active than she has been - we were chalking her more sedentary behavior up to getting older. She is now acting more herself and seems to feel better. A follow-up blood test showed a slight increase in the thyroid level but it is still low so she will be going up one point on the meds in a week or two. It will be interesting to see if she has any reoccurance of the seizures or episodes we witnessed. Thanks for all your posted info -

[gracegirl]

No advice, just wanted to send a note to let you know I'm thinking of you. I hope you can find some answers soon.

[seeh2o]

Carl is hypothyroid, virtually no "classic" symptoms except a thin, but patent leather shiny coat, no seizures. There are a couple of dyed in the wool camps here on GT when it comes to thyroid panels...the Jean Dodds peeps and the MSU crowd. I fall into the former. My vet uses Jean Dodds from Hemopet, her lab ran the test and she provided the interpretation, which my vet agreed with. We use her lab for his yearly thyroid panel, I am very happy and satisfied with her and have no need to use MSU. He has been on .7mg of Soloxine (1/2 tab 1 hour before breakfast and 1/2 tab either 1 hour before dinner or 3 hours after dinner, per Jean Dodds). Initially, my vet put him on the generic, but after a month or so I asked to switch to Soloxine as I had read that others had had better luck with it...Carl falls into that camp, too. I order it from Drs Foster Smith as they cheapest price I could find on the internet and shipping is free. After a few months on Soloxine his atypical symptoms began to clear up (corneal rings aka perilimbal lipid keratopathy). After 2 years one eye is almost 100% clear, the other comes and goes, but it has never gotten worse nor as bad as it once was. His coat is thicker and softer as well, he has much less balding on his thighs and sides of his chest and his throat is completely filled in.

 

You may want to get in touch with Dee, Energy11, as her Goldie was thought to have had seizures. She and her gal had quite a journey, here is a link to her thread. Dee is a wealth of information.

 

Best of luck to your sweet goofy boy, Steak!

Edited March 1, 2011 by seeh2o

[greyhead]

Definitely read Dee's thread. I didn't care for MSU's interpretation in that case. IMO, armed with greyhound norms and a full panel of test results, in combination with observations (of symptoms like seizures), any good vet should be able to figure it out. But if I needed an outside consult on hypothyroid status, I'd get it from Dr. Dodds myself. FWIW, my Spencer had mild seizures before we started treating his thyroid.

 

If you type hypothyroid* in as a search term in the H&M archives, you'll see the kinds of arguments -- the many arguments -- we've had on the subject. And it may help explain the range of symptoms that have been seen. (I say hypothyroid* as a term because my own thread was titled "hypothyroidism," and with an asterisk you'll get all the variations like that.)

[greypuppyluv]

FWIW, from what I've seen on the EPIL-K9 list, most of the dogs who have been tested for thyroid function either don't have a low thyroid level or don't see improvement in lowering their seizure activity once they start taking Soloxine. Please note I said MOST. I'm sure there are some dogs who improve on it, and even though there have been cases where low thyroid is the cause of seizure activity, it's generally not the cause in most cases.

[Guest wmlcml6]

For what it's worth, Steak has always had coarse hair, since the day he arrived at our kennel. It finally slicked down a little after he matured a little, but it was still more wiry than your typical greyhound coat.

 

I second (or third) the full panel thyroid test. Marilyn Varnberg at Grey Haven has always told me never to rely on a thyroid test that wasn't a full panel sent to the experts as suggested above.

[Guest Energy11]

Carl is hypothyroid, virtually no "classic" symptoms except a thin, but patent leather shiny coat, no seizures. There are a couple of dyed in the wool camps here on GT when it comes to thyroid panels...the Jean Dodds peeps and the MSU crowd. I fall into the former. My vet uses Jean Dodds from Hemopet, her lab ran the test and she provided the interpretation, which my vet agreed with. We use her lab for his yearly thyroid panel, I am very happy and satisfied with her and have no need to use MSU. He has been on .7mg of Soloxine (1/2 tab 1 hour before breakfast and 1/2 tab either 1 hour before dinner or 3 hours after dinner, per Jean Dodds). Initially, my vet put him on the generic, but after a month or so I asked to switch to Soloxine as I had read that others had had better luck with it...Carl falls into that camp, too. I order it from Drs Foster Smith as they cheapest price I could find on the internet and shipping is free. After a few months on Soloxine his atypical symptoms began to clear up (corneal rings aka perilimbal lipid keratopathy). After 2 years one eye is almost 100% clear, the other comes and goes, but it has never gotten worse nor as bad as it once was. His coat is thicker and softer as well, he has much less balding on his thighs and sides of his chest and his throat is completely filled in.

 

You may want to get in touch with Dee, Energy11, as her Goldie was thought to have had seizures. She and her gal had quite a journey, here is a link to her thread. Dee is a wealth of information.

 

Best of luck to your sweet goofy boy, Steak!

Yes, Please read the thread! I mean, my Goldie is roaching on the couch right now, and is a bright, happy girl! Her nights are still strange... she whines, barks, etc,, but it doesn't last LONG, and some nights, she is fine. Valium helps her with this. IF it had not been for Dr. Jean Dodds and my former vet/employer, Dr. Beau, GOLDIE WOULD BE AT THE BRIDGE!

 

Thank God you are getting the Free T4, and PLEASE SEND RESULTS TO DR. DODDS!

 

Sending lots of love, hugs, prayers and good luck! Dee and my girl, Goldie! ***p.s. ... I GOT my Christmas Wish!

 

Definitely read Dee's thread. I didn't care for MSU's interpretation in that case. IMO, armed with greyhound norms and a full panel of test results, in combination with observations (of symptoms like seizures), any good vet should be able to figure it out. But if I needed an outside consult on hypothyroid status, I'd get it from Dr. Dodds myself. FWIW, my Spencer had mild seizures before we started treating his thyroid.

 

If you type hypothyroid* in as a search term in the H&M archives, you'll see the kinds of arguments -- the many arguments -- we've had on the subject. And it may help explain the range of symptoms that have been seen. (I say hypothyroid* as a term because my own thread was titled "hypothyroidism," and with an asterisk you'll get all the variations like that.)

 

I, too, would ALWAYS consult with Dr. Dodds! "My" Dr. Beau, too, took ONE look at those results, and said ... SUPPLEMENT!

 

I hope this is something that works for Steak, too!