Evaluating Quality Of Life

[Guest caelanarcher]

Aaron's lymph nodes are back up, even on the prednisone, so I have to start thinking about what comes next. The oncologist says that the next thing will be difficulty breathing and swallowing. I'm just full of questions.

 

How do you tell the difference between closing airways and panting because the prednisone makes him thirsty? He's coughed up a mouthful of kibble once or twice so far. When does that become difficulty swallowing? If he still thinks that food is the greatest thing in the entire universe, if he still eats every meal as if he'd NEVER BEEN FED EVER EVER EVER, does that mean that he's still feeling okay? He's been vocalizing too, but that's mostly fixed by giving him what he wants (wants to go out, wants more water, wants more food). How can I trust myself to tell the difference between "Mom, I'm thirsty" and "Mom, it hurts"?

 

Bonus question: When I look at him from above, it seems like his ribcage is extended/more round than it used to be. Any idea what that means? Or maybe I'm just imagining it.

 

Sorry for always pestering you guys for answers. My oncologist took two days to call me back, and my regular vet only works random days. I feel totally adrift here and it sucks.

[Brindles]

Their ribcage enlarges as they get older. Almost all dogs are like that. Very normal.

 

There's no cookie-cutter answer for quality of life for a dog. It's very much an individual thing. I'm having to evaluate every so often right now with my Echo, so I know how you feel.

 

The cliché answer to your question is "he'll let you know." Believe me when I say it's more than likely true. My old retriever was so stoic, I thought for sure he'd just suffer through the pain even when it was too intense. But when the day came, he let me know.

 

I'm sorry you have to go through this.

[tbhounds]

The pred will change their body shape. Pred may cause the organs to enlarge while causing muscle wasting.

[sobesmom]

I can't give you specific answers on body changes, others can.

 

I know, in my personal experience, when my grey Sobe was terminal (different reason) - I worried about "how would I know when it was time" - I did everything to keep him as comfortable and happy as I could - and that extended his happy life beyond what the vet expected - but I worried if I'd know when the time came - because I ABSOLUTELY did not want to keep him going just for MY benefit.

 

Well, when the time came - I knew. One day - I JUST KNEW. I could see it - I could feel it. He was done. He could've probably lived on a couple more weeks - but one morning - I KNEW. HE KNEW. It was time. Quality of life is a hard thing to define - but an easy thing to see and FEEL if you love an animal.

 

Trust your gut. Trust your dog. Be brave enough to call it "DONE" what it's the right thing to do. It's VERY hard. But you'll know. Do the right thing when the time comes.

 

Hugs to you - I've lived it - and it was so hard. But I think I did it right for my family and my grey.

[Wonder]

I'm wondering the same thing about Sparks. Is he in too much pain? When is it the right time to let him go? He's still eating, running (kinda) 3 legged in the yard and loving treats.

I hate this!

 

Hugs to you as you deal with this as well

[lothianjavert]

I'm wondering the same thing about Sparks. Is he in too much pain? When is it the right time to let him go? He's still eating, running (kinda) 3 legged in the yard and loving treats.

I hate this!

 

Hugs to you as you deal with this as well

 

We're in the same position. I'm so sorry you all have to deal with it too. I felt so guilty today emailing another vet to see if she did house calls for home euthanasia. While D isn't ready yet (and I don't think I'll ever be), I don't want to wait until the last minute and have no other options. I also don't want him to suffer or be in too much pain, but then, I don't want to let him go too early. How do you get it just right? Is there a "right"?

 

I know that I want him to be at home where he is happy and comfortable if at all possible. Still, it made me feel awful. I don't really even want to think about it or face it. I wish I could just make the cancer go away, and wake up from this bad dream.

 

It's just an awful situation to be in and I'm so sorry so many others are going through this too.

[mychip1]

Many thoughts your way. Your boy will let you know.....does sound cliche, but very true.

[TheFullHouse]

The prednisone will increase his appetite, which may be why he's still eating great. It's such a personal decision. With me, when Emmy was having more bad days than good I knew the time was near. When her tail quit wagging, when she quit getting up when her dad came home and wasn't greeting him at the door, when she quit playing with her basketball, all the things that made life fun for her brought no reaction, I knew.

[Greytlady94]

Watch his eyes, sometimes they will change from bright to dull.

 

I have been where you are way too many times. One thing I learned was that I waited one day too long some of the times, thinking that maybe tomorrow it would be better, but it wasn't. I've come to some peace with promising that I will try to never wait one day too long again.

[Guest PhillyPups]

 

I have been where you are way too many times.

 

I believe, as do many, that dogs live in the moment. I would much rather their last moment not be one in such pain we have no other option, while they are crying in pain. There are two of my hounds that I waited too long on, and as I type this I can still hear Suga cries of pain from the osteo - itis a sound I will live with for the rest of my life. I pray no one ever has to live with that feeling. The decision is never easy, I take their pain and carry it in my heart forever and ever, until I join them.

 

Many prayers and for you.

[Guest june]

It is never easy to know when enough is enough. As others have said watch and listen to Aaron nobody knows him better than you.

Sending prayers and gentle thoughts.

june

[Guest HHHounds]

We have lost 2 hounds to osteo, so it was easier to tell when it was time to let go. When they could not walk without horrible pain, and I could not help, it was time to go. Our sweet vet is so supportive - it makes a hard decision a bit easier... Prayers sent your way.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I believe, as do many, that dogs live in the moment. I would much rather their last moment not be one in such pain we have no other option, while they are crying in pain. There are two of my hounds that I waited too long on, and as I type this I can still hear Suga cries of pain from the osteo - itis a sound I will live with for the rest of my life. I pray no one ever has to live with that feeling. The decision is never easy, I take their pain and carry it in my heart forever and ever, until I join them.

 

This.

 

Having just made the decision to let Comet go, I absolutely believe that it's better to make the decision too early than too late. Honestly, with a terminal diagnosis, I'm not sure any point at or after diagnosis is really too early. Sure, you can have some extra days, weeks, or months, but they aren't really the kind of days dogs enjoy and they are really just for us. Dogs neither know, nor care about time. We are their whole world, and they will go through hell to stay, for us, because that's what they do.

 

We can't tell you when it's time and neither can the vet. Your hound will tell you.

[Batmom]

I would much rather their last moment not be one in such pain we have no other option, while they are crying in pain.

Honestly, with a terminal diagnosis, I'm not sure any point at or after diagnosis is really too early.

 

What they said.

 

It is hard on us to let go when the dog still has some moments of brightness, enjoyment of food and pets and a snooze in the sun ... and a million times more awful when the dog is in crisis and there is no choice.

 

Hugs to you and your pupper.

 

 

[JohnF]

It's always such a difficult thing to get right. On the one hand there is this basic stuff that indicates when and where there is no blame:

1) Is the dog free of distress, pain or discomfort, and could the pain be controlled?

2) Can the dog walk and balance fairly well?

3) Can the dog eat and drink without vomiting?

4) Is the dog free of inoperable tumours which are painful?

5) Can the dog breathe without difficulty?

6) Can the dog urinate or defecate without difficulty or incontinence?

7) Does the dog have an owner who is able to cope physically and

mentally with any nursing that may be needed?

If treatment is not possible then answering 'No' to any of those questions means there is no blame in having the dog put to sleep.

 

But as to when the time is right for your particular dog I wish I could truthfully say that they always give you a sign. Often it is more like the penny finally dropping and you 'get' it because you've been too close to the treatment and become used to a slow delcline. Often it helps to have a relative's take on it, maybe someone who hasn't seen the dog for a month or so. I would rather let my dogs go a couple of days early rather than a day too late as I view it that I have made a solemn promise with them not to allow them to suffer when there is no hope of recovery asnd when their pain cannot be adequately controlled. Sometimes there is that sudden lack of luster in their eyes, sometimes you sense a different kind of smell about them (cytokine release. A good vet will indicate to you when they feel their time is now very short - meaning in the next 3 or 4 days you ought to be thinking about euthanasia. I often reflect and think: Now would I want to be hanging around if I'd gotten into that dire state and someone could help me to go?

[Guest Energy11]

The pred will change their body shape. Pred may cause the organs to enlarge while causing muscle wasting.

 

 

Yes, definitely with the Pred. The short time Goldie was on it, she developed that "sway back," look. Now that she is off, her body is normal again.

 

With a situation like yours, the main thing to do, is take it day by day. If your baby is coughing up the kibble, you might want to consider feeding just canned food, or soaking the kibble, so it is soft. Might help him with the swallowing.

 

Sending you lots of love and prayers!

[Guest Tatum]

 

I have been where you are way too many times.

 

I believe, as do many, that dogs live in the moment. I would much rather their last moment not be one in such pain we have no other option, while they are crying in pain. There are two of my hounds that I waited too long on, and as I type this I can still hear Suga cries of pain from the osteo - itis a sound I will live with for the rest of my life. I pray no one ever has to live with that feeling. The decision is never easy, I take their pain and carry it in my heart forever and ever, until I join them.

 

Many prayers and for you.

 

I agree with all you've said here. We just let our Sweet Tatum go from Osteo. I didn't want her to break her leg or be in constant pain. I wanted the day we took her in to be as normal as possible and we used her pain meds to make it as pain free as possible. It was difficult because she was still eating well, but her quality of life was very limited by the huge tumor. We felt in our hearts that it was best for her and for us.

 

Marilee

[greytpups]

My story is a little bit different because I did not get a sign from Bailey. She had stomach cancer and we had to make a decision right away because she couldn't keep any food down.

 

She was bright, alert, followed me around, went for walks, but couldn't keep her food down. I knew she was getting tired though and she couldn't be cured...so I made the decision that if she couldn't eat she would continue to lose weight and be malnourished, and that would not be fair to her, and would be selfish of me.

 

I always felt I let her go too early, but I didn't want her to suffer any more and she would only be alive because of my selfishness and I knew it would be painful.

 

After reading these stories, perhaps it was the right decision, even if Bailey never gave me any signs. A friend (gazehund) said she'd rather let a hound go one day too early rather than one day too late, and I kept this in mind when I was going through this.

 

I just wanted to point out that I didn't get a sign, but I had to listen to my heart and do what was best for Bailey because I loved her so much.

 

 

[Guest snakes]

I wish i had a clear cut answer for you, especialyl as I may be facing the same decision sometime in the relatively near future.

 

Prednisone will make any dog or human very hungry, all the time. Also mayeb if he feels so hungry he is eating faster than normal? If mine eat to fast they end up coughing up some food, maybe you can try some methods to slow his eating or try several smaller meals if your schedule allows?

 

Good luck and enjoy your time with your sweetie.

[carronstar]

When Scarlett was battling Osteo my vet said that when there were more bad days than good days, that would be the time. The day of her x-rays when it showed that there were mets in her lungs, I chose a date right then and arranged for my vet to come to us to let her go. She may well have had more good days in her but the thought of her being in any more pain was unacceptable after we had been given 13 years together. I was able to completely spoil her for those 12 days, and all of her favorite people came in to visit her on her last day and she was sent out of a pillow of hugs and kisses and champagne bubbles. My vet came to the apartment so that she was on her own couch at the end. I was a wreck but knew that there were anti-anxiety meds with my name on them that would get me through the first few days.

 

I am so sorry that you are going through this.

Edited January 27, 2011 by carronstar

[IndyandHollyluv]

I can't give you specific answers on body changes, others can.

 

I know, in my personal experience, when my grey Sobe was terminal (different reason) - I worried about "how would I know when it was time" - I did everything to keep him as comfortable and happy as I could - and that extended his happy life beyond what the vet expected - but I worried if I'd know when the time came - because I ABSOLUTELY did not want to keep him going just for MY benefit.

 

Well, when the time came - I knew. One day - I JUST KNEW. I could see it - I could feel it. He was done. He could've probably lived on a couple more weeks - but one morning - I KNEW. HE KNEW. It was time. Quality of life is a hard thing to define - but an easy thing to see and FEEL if you love an animal.

 

Trust your gut. Trust your dog. Be brave enough to call it "DONE" what it's the right thing to do. It's VERY hard. But you'll know. Do the right thing when the time comes.

 

Hugs to you - I've lived it - and it was so hard. But I think I did it right for my family and my grey.

 

Gosh, I couldn't agree more. So many heartfelt and enlightened responses here. I am sincerely sorry you have to travel this path. I lost my Indy last year. I had to decide when enough was enough. I let him go while his dignity was intact (he had nasal cancer). That was so important to me. I loved Indy so much and told him I would not allow him to suffer in pain. Why would I want to do that to him? He was my heart dog.

 

I suppose all medication serves a purpose but Indy was miserable on Pred (he was on it a few weeks for back issues). I also decided I never wanted to medicate him to the point where he was no longer "my boy." Y'know? That's not how I wanted to remember him. I said goodbye while he could still walk, eat, do his business, and hold his high. I realize not everyone has that option but when you let them go sooner rather than later, I think the pain of your loss, guilt, and/or regret is not as crushing.

 

Hugs to you and your boy.

[BatterseaBrindl]

I too, have been there too many times, with my dogs, as well as my beloved equines.

My motto has always been "Better a day too soon, than a moment too late".

 

You WILL know when the time is right.

 

Our Billie is over 14 now, and as each week goes by, the getting up and down is harder and harder for her. But her tail wags, she loves her food and still can climb onto the low futon.

I sincerely hope she keeps this behaviour up until at least the spring thaw, so she can be buried in our little pet cemetery. But if she takes a turn for the worse, we are prepared to do what is best for her.

 

FWIW...I always have my vet come to the house. It just seems to make things a little bit easier....for both the dog and myself.