Does The Lure Increase Prey Drive?

[DunesMom]

Kipper loves the lure pole (like a fishing pole with a stuffed toy on the end).

 

The neighbors, who have outdoor cats, can see us play in our yard from their back bedroom windows. They told me I was "teaching" my dog to become dangerous to their cats.

 

I believe that a dog playing with a stuffed critter or a ball is a dog playing, and doesn't make the dog more or less likely to chase and kill another animal.

 

Kipper was already fine with indoor cats but not okay with outdoor cats, so I don't see the point, anyway. (He's also never off leash anywhere but my six-foot-privacy-fenced back yard, so unless your cats are in my back yard, there's no danger to them, but whatever.)

 

DH worries that they're right. What do you think?

[Guest TheDoggfather]

Okay...

 

#1 - They're only dangerous to the cats if the neighbors LET their cats roam free.

#2 - I've trained greyhound puppies from the ground up and it's inherent in them to chase. They'll chase anything; a bag scooting by... a cat darting across the yard... anything. What they do when they actually GET there... well, that's dependant upon the individual dog.

#3 - Wanting to "kill the rabbit" is such a misconception about racers. They aren't running to kill the lure... their innate traits TELL them to chase that thing that's moving in front of them.

#4 - Good onya for giving your dog some cool playtime w/ a lurepole!

[winnie]

Our greys love playing with stuffies. One was even a very good racer with a long career. The peacefully coexist with three cats. In summary, I'm pretty sure they can distinguish between a lure and a live animal.

[3greytjoys]

I believe it depends on the dog. IMO, many "cat-friendly" Greyhounds are not considered outdoor cat safe when off leash in fenced areas. Game on. If your neighbors are concerned, maybe they could consider keeping their cats inside to keep them safe from many outdoor life hazards; or building a cat enclosure in their back yard for kitty outdoor enjoyment. A lot of other dog breeds and other wildlife would kill a cat if given the opportunity. Vets with whom I have spoken recommend keeping cats inside. I've read the average lifespan of outdoor cats is 3 years (with luck, up to 5 yrs.). Average lifespan of inside cats is 14+ years. Your neighbors have a responsibility to keep their own cats safe, and off of your private property. Back to the lure: IMO a fun toy lure does reinforce the Greyhound's natural chase/prey instinct. After all, professional race track lures are mechanical (not live). I'm interested in reading other opinions.

[Guest PhillyPups]

It is funny, my Stepper, who raced 224 races, chasing a lure, had little or no prey drive. However he had a competitive edge and would push to get out the door frst and always had to be a head before any of the others while walking.

 

Moe never raced however she has a very strong prey drive. DonnieDude was not a stellar racer and has extreme interest in anything small/fluffy. I am not sure if he wants to eat it or play with it, he is such a goober. Give him a lure pole and he is spot on intent!!

 

AnnaBanana has a high prey drive, but not much interest in a lure pole.

 

Let a neighbor's cat get into my back yard (6' privacy fence) and my money is on my dogs.

 

I say let your boy play!!

[Guest wmlcml6]

Okay...

 

#1 - They're only dangerous to the cats if the neighbors LET their cats roam free.

#2 - I've trained greyhound puppies from the ground up and it's inherent in them to chase. They'll chase anything; a bag scooting by... a cat darting across the yard... anything. What they do when they actually GET there... well, that's dependant upon the individual dog.

#3 - Wanting to "kill the rabbit" is such a misconception about racers. They aren't running to kill the lure... their innate traits TELL them to chase that thing that's moving in front of them.

#4 - Good onya for giving your dog some cool playtime w/ a lurepole!

 

I agree with what Chris said here.

 

If your neighbors allow their cats runs to roam in close proximity to your greyhound, they are taking a huge risk. My Rosemary is EXTREMELY high prey even though she never raced. She is completely safe with our cat, but if that same cat was outside, I do not believe it would be pretty. She actually caught a bird the other day and I had to get it away from her when I realized it wasn't one of her stuffies. Ewww.

Edited November 18, 2009 by wmlcml6

[Sighthounds4me]

I agree with Chris and Cathy. I know plenty of people, in many sighthounds breeds (not just Greyhounds) that have lure- or open-field coursing dogs who coexist peacefully with cats and/or other small animals.

 

But in this case, what you do on your property is your business! How dare they ask, or imply, that you not exercise your dog because they fear for their cats, whom they allow to roam free with no supervision?! How is that your responsibility?! Perhaps if they cared more about their cats, they would keep them safe by taking responsibility to keep them inside the house, or otherwise contained!

[Trihounds]

Doubt it. Our 2 raced 120 races each and have very low prey drive. While they would probably chase anything in their yard, it wouldn't be because it was an animal. They like the soccer ball just as much! To your neighbor, I say 'phooey' and suggest they keep their outdoor cats off your property and out of your yard. Otherwise, all bets are off due to their negligence. My cats are indoor cats and I have had both and will never let my cats roam again. Shortens their life span and increases vet bills, not to mention confrontations with neighbors.

[Guest KennelMom]

I've got dogs that play with a lure pole and *gasp* actually go lure coursing. The ones that were cat safe before are still cat safe. The ones that weren't cat safe, still aren't.

 

Side note: I don't see why it's any concern of your neighbors. After all, if they were responsible pet owners, then their cats wouldn't be in your dog's yard. Basically, so what if it nurtures a chase instinct....the chase instinct is pretty much one of those things that defines a sighthound.

 

Second side note: You will often hear performance folks talk about dogs who won't chase plastic...meaning, the dogs know the difference between a real animal and a fake one Dogs who won't chase plastic don't want to play the game, so they won't. But give them the real deal and its off to the races, so to speak

[DunesMom]

Doubt it. Our 2 raced 120 races each and have very low prey drive. While they would probably chase anything in their yard, it wouldn't be because it was an animal. They like the soccer ball just as much! To your neighbor, I say 'phooey' and suggest they keep their outdoor cats off your property and out of your yard. Otherwise, all bets are off due to their negligence. My cats are indoor cats and I have had both and will never let my cats roam again. Shortens their life span and increases vet bills, not to mention confrontations with neighbors.

 

Are those Bengal cats? My friends in Florida have them, and they are the coolest kitties I've ever met! Jersey actually plays fetch.

 

Oh, and yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to get it across that their cats shouldn't be loose outside. We've had conversations about it, but they're like talking to a rock. They essentially say they don't want a litter box in their house. So instead, their cats risk their lives and poop in my garden and potted plants. Great.

Edited November 18, 2009 by DunesMom

[greysmom]

Four greys + four indoor cats = No problems.

 

And my best racer is completely afraid of anything that moves outside. She will actually run away from squirrels. She can also destroy a new squeaky toy in under 30 seconds. There's no relationship between toys and prey drive as far as I'm concerned. You can't "teach" an instinctive behavior like chasing.

 

All my neighbors know that if their cats are in my yard they are fair game. I agree with Heather. If your neighbors were responsible cat owners they would be keeping their spayed/neutered cats indoors all the time. Period. There is no law that says you must open your private property to free-roaming animals.

 

greysmom

[Guest longdoglady]

In my experience if you play lure/chase games with them it gives them an outlet for their chasing instinct thereby making a tired, happy, fit, more trainable dog. It is the thrill of the chase they enjoy most not the kill. I had a lurcher who could catch rabbits easy-peasy so she just stopped chasing them, they were no fun, if she spotted a hare though she would run until she could run no more.

 

btw I've trained Anna to be okay with my cat in the garden, just had to go through the same process as indoors until I was sure. I will not let her out with the cat when it is dark though, as the saying goes "all cats are grey in the dark".

 

Let Kipper have his fun.

[3greytjoys]

Doubt it. Our 2 raced 120 races each and have very low prey drive. While they would probably chase anything in their yard, it wouldn't be because it was an animal. They like the soccer ball just as much! To your neighbor, I say 'phooey' and suggest they keep their outdoor cats off your property and out of your yard. Otherwise, all bets are off due to their negligence. My cats are indoor cats and I have had both and will never let my cats roam again. Shortens their life span and increases vet bills, not to mention confrontations with neighbors.

 

Are those Bengal cats? My friends in Florida have them, and they are the coolest kitties I've ever met! Jersey actually plays fetch.

 

Oh, and yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to get it across that their cats shouldn't be loose outside. We've had conversations about it, but they're like talking to a rock. They essentially say they don't want a litter box in their house. So instead, their cats risk their lives and poop in my garden and potted plants. Great.

 

 

Bravo to you for engaging your hound in playful exercise. Your neighbors should have thought of the litter box issue before getting cats, and allowing them to affect other people's property. (I developed a terrible case of ringworm on my face that doctors didn't diagnose for over 6 months! The cause: A neighbor's cat pooping in my garden. I was an avid gardener who didn't always wear gloves. I finally diagnosed it myself, before the Internet.) My cats are toilet trained.

[dmdsmoxie]

Okay...

their innate traits TELL them to chase that thing that's moving in front of them.

 

The dog many consider the greatest racer ever, Downing, never chased the lure. He would come back after races with grease on his left side from rubbing the rail. He chased the wheel that runs on the rail. It never mattered to him if there was a pole with a lure on it or not.

 

Inside cats never have a problem with greyhounds wanting to kill them.

 

Dick

[GreytHoundPoet]

When I moved into my new house I told every neighbor around that if their outdoor cats climbed my fence and got into my yard they won't make it out alive and it's not my problem (in a much more diplomatic and friendly way than that ). I am responsible and keep my dogs inside and in a fence they should be responsible with their cats. My pack has 2 extremely high prey dogs (not small dog or cat safe), 1 non-cat safe hound, and a foster that was returned because she did kill the neighbor's cat when it climbed her fence. She's cat safe inside the house BTW.

 

As for the lure pole...I know so many people who have cat safe hounds and play with the lure and lure course...it doesn't make them want to kill cats. They stay the same as before.

Edited November 19, 2009 by GreytHoundPoet

[Trihounds]

Are those Bengal cats? My friends in Florida have them, and they are the coolest kitties I've ever met! Jersey actually plays fetch.

 

Oh, and yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to get it across that their cats shouldn't be loose outside. We've had conversations about it, but they're like talking to a rock. They essentially say they don't want a litter box in their house. So instead, their cats risk their lives and poop in my garden and potted plants. Great.

 

Of the 3, Titan is a Bengal, Cairo was a rescued Chausie and Koppie is a rescued Savannah/Chausie mix. Brilliant cats, no question. My Cairo was the epitome of the feline greyhound in every way. Outstanding boys.

 

It doesn't seem like your neighbors really thought through what it means to have a pet. Living outside is really tough on them. That said, the first cat I ever adopted was a lost outdoor cat when we got him - he was losing a few too many catfights. That said, we took care of him and kept him as an outdoor cat (frankly, we didn't know better, he was our first cat). He ended up being shot in the tail with a BB gun by our neighbor who didn't like him napping in their car (with an open sunroof). We didn't even know he was doing that...but in any case, we learned pretty quickly he wasn't welcome roaming his new turf. I have not had an outdoor cat since.

 

Hope your neighbor comes to their senses before something tragic happens by the paws of a pupper.

[Houndless]

I'm glad this topic was started. I wasn't so much worried if Tank would kill Tut kitty but was just more worried if he'd be more inclined to chase him in the house.

 

Thanks! I think I get the lure pole constructed this weekend and run a little fur off his butt!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

My boy Bart killed a cat in his foster house before we adopted him. He now lives with 2 cats and doesnt even look at them. He has chased a cat in our backyard and cornered it before I could get to him, I did yell and get him to break off the chase. He has killed and eaten a few rabbits, tried to eat a skunk until it gave him a good dose of flavor in his mouth, as well as killing and eating a robin. I have taken my female to LGRA (straight pull lure) and after didnt really notice much difference in her wanting to chase things when outside. She has allways been very excited when she sees things outside. I bet she would kill anything she could catch, it just so happens that Bart is considerably faster than her, so he gets the kill first. As I said, I have cats and my girl had ZERO change in prey drive towards our cats. The one and only thing you really need to worry about is your local leash laws. It may sound crewl, but its not your worry if their cat comes into your yard. Its too bad some people are irresponsible owners, it makes the rest of us worry about their poor little animals. Tell your neighbor what WILL happen if their cats wander into your yard, regardless of a lure pole or not.

 

Chad

[silverfish]

I voted 'Probably not'. I think 99% of the time it makes no difference at all, but with a really high prey dog it just might keep them sharp. JMHO. Having said that, if you have a really high prey dog, and I mean a really and truly high-prey dog - not just one that will chase given the opportunity, but one that will constantly look for those opportunities and then act on them - it's going to make absolutely no difference to the cats' chances whether you let them play with a lure pole or not.

 

And perhaps it's worth considering that in our role as caring dog owners, we need to be giving our dogs the freedom to express normal behaviour*. In other words, we need to be thinking about the natural traits and desires of the animals we choose to keep as companions and let them display those behaviours, whether its your indoor cats playing with their own mini versions of lure poles (yep, you can bet your neighbours do that ) or your greyhound chasing his own outdoor version - or finding another way to allow him to satisfy that particular instinct. We give our greys stuffies to play with indoors, and that's great, and some of us let our dogs off leash to run about in the fields and occasionally find a rabbit to run after (no, since Jim none of mine have actually caught anything) and some of us use a lure pole. IMHO, this makes us good greyhound owners.

 

And in fact there is some argument for the fact that if we allow our dogs the satisfaction of chasing (displaying that particular natural breed trait) under controlled and safe conditions, they'll be less driven to do it at other times - or at least better behaved and calmer.

 

*This one part of the charter of our UK 'Freedom Foods' which are meats (and dairy products) which have been produced under higher welfare conditions. Should we give our dogs less?

[Guest KennelMom]

And perhaps it's worth considering that in our role as caring dog owners, we need to be giving our dogs the freedom to express normal behaviour*. In other words, we need to be thinking about the natural traits and desires of the animals we choose to keep as companions and let them display those behaviours, whether its your indoor cats playing with their own mini versions of lure poles (yep, you can bet your neighbours do that ) or your greyhound chasing his own outdoor version - or finding another way to allow him to satisfy that particular instinct. We give our greys stuffies to play with indoors, and that's great, and some of us let our dogs off leash to run about in the fields and occasionally find a rabbit to run after (no, since Jim none of mine have actually caught anything) and some of us use a lure pole. IMHO, this makes us good greyhound owners.

 

Thank you for saying this...well said and I 100% agree. Chasing (and sometimes hunting) is all part of the greyhound package. Clever point about the kitty lure pole as well....

[Guest arlosmom]

I have let several of mine participate in lure coursing and I do not believe their prey drive is any greater than those that have not particpated. However, none of mine are cat friendly anyway, they love to chase squirrels and yes the stray cat that has come into our backyard with worse consequences for my dogs than the blasted cat! I have informed all my neighbors with outdoor cats that if they come in my yard I will not garantee that they will come out alive! One of my friends cat friendly grey killed her own cat out doors and never participated in any lure activities and also never raced. She was just being a greyhound. Let's let them do what greyhounds do.

Edited November 21, 2009 by arlosmom

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

My 100% cat safe Whippet is a lure coursing maniac. I really don't think it matters. A dog that is deadly cat aggressive AND hot for the lure, IMO, is not going to change because you do or do not let him lure course.

[GeorgeofNE]

QUOTE(TheDoggfather @ Nov 18 2009, 05:09 PM) 4306081[/snapback]Okay...

 

#1 - They're only dangerous to the cats if the neighbors LET their cats roam free.

#2 - I've trained greyhound puppies from the ground up and it's inherent in them to chase. They'll chase anything; a bag scooting by... a cat darting across the yard... anything. What they do when they actually GET there... well, that's dependant upon the individual dog.

#3 - Wanting to "kill the rabbit" is such a misconception about racers. They aren't running to kill the lure... their innate traits TELL them to chase that thing that's moving in front of them.

#4 - Good onya for giving your dog some cool playtime w/ a lurepole!

 

I agree with what Chris said here.

 

If your neighbors allow their cats runs to roam in close proximity to your greyhound, they are taking a huge risk. My Rosemary is EXTREMELY high prey even though she never raced. She is completely safe with our cat, but if that same cat was outside, I do not believe it would be pretty. She actually caught a bird the other day and I had to get it away from her when I realized it wasn't one of her stuffies. Ewww.

 

 

 

Ditto to what Cathy said. George is perfectly fine with my cats inside--and he had a fairly long career. The cat we bump into OUTSIDE? Fair game. He has no interest in squirrels, etc., because they don't skulk about and then run off. It's not that it's a cat. It's that it's RUNNING from him. My cats aren't afraid of him. None of them has EVER run from him. There's no point in chasing something that's not moving!

[Guest LindsaySF]

Cat-safe indoors and outdoors are two different things. But dogs do know the difference between a lure and a cat. I do LGRA and my dogs still know not to eat the (indoor) cats.

 

Your neighbors should keep their cats inside if they don't want anything bad to happen to them.

 

 

 

[Guest Jesse12789]

It is funny, my Stepper, who raced 224 races, chasing a lure, had little or no prey drive. However he had a competitive edge and would push to get out the door frst and always had to be a head before any of the others while walking.

 

Moe never raced however she has a very strong prey drive. DonnieDude was not a stellar racer and has extreme interest in anything small/fluffy. I am not sure if he wants to eat it or play with it, he is such a goober. Give him a lure pole and he is spot on intent!!

 

AnnaBanana has a high prey drive, but not much interest in a lure pole.

 

Let a neighbor's cat get into my back yard (6' privacy fence) and my money is on my dogs.

 

I say let your boy play!!

thats so funny my bossman has almost no prey drive.. actually kind of scared of little punt dogs and doesnt even notice cats will just walk right by them....well ducks... he loves ducks... haha but he also raced 110 races... lol